This country was built on liberalism.

[James D Hill]

Yes, that exactly.

These labels from the late 18th century cannot be compared to today's politics. Much like today's labels can't be compared to 1930s Germany, i.e. (like many seem to do who claim the Nazis were "left wing").

When boiling it down to the lowest common denominator, I guess all you can say is that "conservatism" is that the according people are skeptic of change, while "progressive" or "left" just means they're more open for change. But what exactly the status quo was (absolutist monarchy/tyranny or a republic or a democracy) people wanted to preserve or change, depends very much on the historical context.

Nazi's are fascist which is right wing. Don't be a nimrod.

 

[James D Hill]

If you're a history teacher our educational system is in even bigger trouble than I thought.

I a 3.4 average my friend.

 

[James D Hill]

No, your premise is false. Liberalism is not the same today as it was in the late 1700's...

I am right AP.

 

[AlabamaPaul]

I a 3.4 average my friend.

Though not in grammar... :lamo

 

[Goshin]

As a European, it often occurs to me that in America today, "liberalism" seems to have become synonymous to "progressive" or "left", while in Europe, "liberalism" is rather on the right side of the spectrum and the "left" or "progressives" are not called "liberal".

Exactly what I've been trying, in VAIN, to explain to him... these are simply labels, and they only have meaning within the context of the time and place they are used. As you say, "Liberal" and "conservative" don't even mean the same thing in Europe as in the States.

But apparently the internal dialog is too loud for someone to hear any of that....

 

[German guy]

Nazi's are fascist which is right wing. Don't be a nimrod.

Yes, exactly. Because I disagree applying the labels of today's America to Germany in the 1930s make sense (according to which everybody in favor of "big government" is "left wing") ... that wasn't the case in Germany. German conservatives were traditionally statist.

 

[fmw]

Where am I wrong my friend? Where the Torries not conservatives? Where the founding fathers not revolutionaries? Last time I checked revolutionaries where liberals.

So why aren't you revolving?

 

[Fiddytree]

Many of them were also elitists. Something many liberals and conservatives don't have the stomach for today, sadly.

 

[Fiddytree]

I am a history major at the UW. Class of 82. I have read a history book or two my friend and this country was founded by liberals. Too bad it is so hard to get a job as a history teacher.

I suspect your topics of study were not in regard to political intellectual history or political history.

 

[Woodman909]

Conservatives have always been stick in the mud's. Through the years they have fought change at every turn. They where against a womans right to vote. They where against ending the ban on inter racil marriage. They where against the ERA.They where against the VA.They where against social security.They are against gay marriage.The bottom line is they have been on the wrong side of every social change except slavery.Times may change but sticks in the mudd are still the same my friend.

Again, you site points for which you bring no evidence or proof. You seem to forget how LBJ got the Civil Rights Bill passed. It was republican votes that got him to defeat the racist southern democrats who were still mad they could not own slaves. Take a ride down south and talk to some democrats on how they feel about women running for office. You'll get an education. (FYI - it's racist, not racil)

 

[humbolt]

And here I thought we built this country on rock and roll.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Where am I wrong my friend? Where the Torries not conservatives? Where the founding fathers not revolutionaries? Last time I checked revolutionaries where liberals.

Really? Was Hitler a liberal? Are the Muslim Brotherhood liberals? Why do so many modern liberals now object to much of what those slave owning "liberals" established with their desrie for a constitutionally limitted federal gov't?

 

[Drake McHugh]

Yeah,this is probably the dumbest thread I have seen. Unless you are calling the founders classical liberals,which would be the opposite of Barack,Pelosi and their group.

 

[Woodman909]

It's Wiki , I know, but for all you Wiki Nuts...

Quote from Wikipedia:

In 1958, President Dwight Eisenhower asked a joint session of Congress to pass the Equal Rights Amendment, the first President to show such a level of support for the amendment. However, whenever the ERA was proposed the Hayden Rider was added; this would make the amendment unacceptable to the National Woman's Party, who would then ask that the ERA be withdrawn.
The Republican Party included support of the ERA in its platform beginning in 1940, renewing the plank every four years until 1980.[8] The ERA was strongly opposed by the American Federation of Labor and other labor unions, who feared the amendment would invalidate protective labor legislation for women. ERA was also opposed by Eleanor Roosevelt and most New Dealers. They felt that ERA was designed for middle class women but that working class women needed government protection. They feared that ERA would undercut the male-dominated labor unions that were a core component of the New Deal coalition. The amendment was opposed by most northern Democrats, who aligned themselves with the anti-ERA labor unions but the ERA was supported by southern Democrats and almost all Republicans.[8] In 1944, the Democrats made the divisive step of including the ERA in their platform, but the Democratic Party did not become united in favor of the amendment until Congressional passage in 1972.[8] The main support base for the ERA until the late 1960s was among middle class Republican women. The League of Women Voters, formerly the National American Woman Suffrage Association, opposed the Equal Rights Amendment until 1972, fearing the loss of protective labor legislation. Despite this, the amendment kept in line with the views of women's rights advocated by early feminists like Lucretia Mott, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, and Susan B. Anthony.

 

[James D Hill]

And here I thought we built this country on rock and roll.

Until the british improved the artform with bands like Led Zep,Pink Floyd,Yes,ELP,Jethro Tull,Black Sabbath,Salvoy Brown,The Who and Elton John.

 

[James D Hill]

It's Wiki , I know, but for all you Wiki Nuts...

Quote from Wikipedia:

In 1958, President Dwight Eisenhower asked a joint session of Congress to pass the Equal Rights Amendment, the first President to show such a level of support for the amendment. However, whenever the ERA was proposed the Hayden Rider was added; this would make the amendment unacceptable to the National Woman's Party, who would then ask that the ERA be withdrawn.
The Republican Party included support of the ERA in its platform beginning in 1940, renewing the plank every four years until 1980.[8] The ERA was strongly opposed by the American Federation of Labor and other labor unions, who feared the amendment would invalidate protective labor legislation for women. ERA was also opposed by Eleanor Roosevelt and most New Dealers. They felt that ERA was designed for middle class women but that working class women needed government protection. They feared that ERA would undercut the male-dominated labor unions that were a core component of the New Deal coalition. The amendment was opposed by most northern Democrats, who aligned themselves with the anti-ERA labor unions but the ERA was supported by southern Democrats and almost all Republicans.[8] In 1944, the Democrats made the divisive step of including the ERA in their platform, but the Democratic Party did not become united in favor of the amendment until Congressional passage in 1972.[8] The main support base for the ERA until the late 1960s was among middle class Republican women. The League of Women Voters, formerly the National American Woman Suffrage Association, opposed the Equal Rights Amendment until 1972, fearing the loss of protective labor legislation. Despite this, the amendment kept in line with the views of women's rights advocated by early feminists like Lucretia Mott, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, and Susan B. Anthony.

Dwight would have been a liberal on social issues and spending on infrustructure today.

 

[James D Hill]

Really? Was Hitler a liberal? Are the Muslim Brotherhood liberals? Why do so many modern liberals now object to much of what those slave owning "liberals" established with their desrie for a constitutionally limitted federal gov't?

No Hitler was not a liberal nor are the Islamics but the founding fathers where with radical ideas of free speach,every person having rights and the freedom of religion. Those where all radical ideas. Oh by the way Jesus was a liberal too. It was the Scribes and Pharasee's who where the conservatives.

 

[Lukas105]

I heard Jesus was liberal too.

Dwight would have been a liberal on social issues and spending on infrustructure today.

 

[Ikari]

The founding fathers where not only liberals but they where revolutionaries. The conservatives where called Torries and wanted to remain loyal to the British. Just like conservatives are now they where addicted to the staus quo and hated change. After the war the Torries where all shipped back to England. Too bad we could not do that with the current batch of lunkheads that call themselves conservatives now. They are still walking arould looking backwards and against everything.

The founders were classical liberals, aka libertarians.

 

[humbolt]

Until the british improved the artform with bands like Led Zep,Pink Floyd,Yes,ELP,Jethro Tull,Black Sabbath,Salvoy Brown,The Who and Elton John.

And Mark Knopfler. Can't leave him out.

 

[Ikari]

 

[James D Hill]

And Mark Knopfler. Can't leave him out.

He is a great guitarist. Smooth and slick.

 

[James D Hill]

Yeah,this is probably the dumbest thread I have seen. Unless you are calling the founders classical liberals,which would be the opposite of Barack,Pelosi and their group.

If it is so stupid then why did you post on it? What is liberal and conservative is driven by the times. This was before the industrial revolution so you did not have all this capitalism vs socialism debate. This did not come into play intil the 1920's. The fact remains the founding fathers where liberals big time and that is fact. Conservatives by nature can't stand change unless liberalism is the status quo and that was the same then as it is now.

 

[James D Hill]

The founders were classical liberals, aka libertarians.

Remember libertarians are a combination of liberal and conservative. When it comes to personal freedom they are as liberal as they come. When it comes to business and fiscal policy they are freaking right wing rednecks.

 

[Ikari]

Remember libertarians are a combination of liberal and conservative. When it comes to personal freedom they are as liberal as they come. When it comes to business and fiscal policy they are freaking right wing rednecks.

Not really at all, the philosophy of libertarianism stretches back before the current forms of "liberal" and "conservative".