The real american view on spending

[Barbbtx]

It's wrong to say that Tea Party is racist. It's equally as wrong to pretend that it's your imagined "the left" who own the mantle of racism.

Don't act indignant when you offer no dignity in return. Don't complain of being stereotyped while offering nothing but stereotypes of your own.

I'll stop with the blanket statement when others do. When someone says the tea party is racist, I'm going to show the proof that the left is racist.
What was said at that leftist protest was far worse than anything that has been said by the tea party. Yet they were not called out by Al Sharpton or the NAACP. I wonder why that is?

 

[Barbbtx]

It's wrong to say that Tea Party is racist. It's equally as wrong to pretend that it's your imagined "the left" who own the mantle of racism.

Don't act indignant when you offer no dignity in return. Don't complain of being stereotyped while offering nothing but stereotypes of your own.

BTW why did you decide to take me on and you didn't take on Guy? He posted first. My guess is you wouldn't have said a word if I hadn't replied.

 

[Jetboogieman]

I'll stop with the blanket statement when others do. When someone says the tea party is racist, I'm going to show the proof that the left is racist.
What was said at that leftist protest was far worse than anything that has been said by the tea party. Yet they were not called out by Al Sharpton or the NAACP. I wonder why that is?

Al Sharpton and the NAACP represents the entire left?

Wowzers Batman, I had no idea.

Ok, back to my earlier point about education spending. Education is an investment, but one thing' I'll agree on, more money does not mean better results, we know this for sure, new things have to be tried, but what I'm pissed off about, is everytime it's time to cut spending, education is the first thing to go. That's bull**** in my opinion, if you have to cut stuff, cut everything to even things out, but education gets gutted on a regular basis, and that weakens the future, and what new things must we "try".

I think the biggest problem with todays Youth with regards to learning is DISCIPLINE.

 

[Guy Incognito]

No one has dropped the ball on spending.

Yeah, right, they're just holding the ball and not doing anything with it. :roll: The Tea Party just hasn't got the courage or strength of will to make hard cuts that are necessary for real fiscal conservatism.

When it comes to spending, the Tea Party reminds me of the Prayer of Saint Augustine: "Lord, make me chaste... just not yet!"

 

[FilmFestGuy]

I'll stop with the blanket statement when others do. When someone says the tea party is racist, I'm going to show the proof that the left is racist.
What was said at that leftist protest was far worse than anything that has been said by the tea party. Yet they were not called out by Al Sharpton or the NAACP. I wonder why that is?

But it isn't proof that "the left" is racist at all.

That's the problem with a TON of people on this board. They take one instance and pretend that's how everyone behaves.

I could take a picture of a women showing her boobs at Mardi Gras and pretend that's how all women behave; but I would be wrong.

And I responded to yours because I saw it first and only saw his post as a quote in yours. Thus rebuking you both in one post. So you guess wrong...which, sadly implies that you were trying to apply yet another stereotype.

Can we get this back to SPENDING now. Since it's the topic.

 

[Albert Di Salvo]

But it isn't proof that "the left" is racist at all.

That's the problem with a TON of people on this board. They take one instance and pretend that's how everyone behaves.

I could take a picture of a women showing her boobs at Mardi Gras and pretend that's how all women behave; but I would be wrong.

And I responded to yours because I saw it first and only saw his post as a quote in yours. Thus rebuking you both in one post. So you guess wrong...which, sadly implies that you were trying to apply yet another stereotype.

Can we get this back to SPENDING now. Since it's the topic.

White leftists are full and complete beneficiaries of White Privilege. That cannot be denied.

 

[Barbbtx]

Ok, back to my earlier point about education spending. Education is an investment, but one thing' I'll agree on, more money does not mean better results, we know this for sure, new things have to be tried, but what I'm pissed off about, is everytime it's time to cut spending, education is the first thing to go. That's bull**** in my opinion, if you have to cut stuff, cut everything to even things out, but education gets gutted on a regular basis, and that weakens the future, and what new things must we "try".

I think the biggest problem with todays Youth with regards to learning is DISCIPLINE.

Here's an example of a school wanting to try something new and being cut off at the knees.

In Lancaster, PA, McCaskey East High School is experimenting with a possible “old school” solution to foster achievement in the school. According to a statement released from the school, “Educators immediately noticed strong bonds being formed between all students and mentor teachers (Plocienniczak 2011)”. The school has actually organized specific times each day where students, who are segregated by gender and race, meet with a mentor. I feel this revolutionary idea can have significant advantages. Regardless of social class, access to technology, or what neighborhood a student lives in; fostering social capital among schools will improve achievement.
Organized Segregation
The organized segregation based around guided education by a professional mentor could turn out to be a great way to raise social connections across various populations of students. Students will be segregated for six minutes a day and the school holds twenty-minute sessions twice a month. This should establish small learning communities within the larger school community. In larger classes, some students feel overwhelmed and become disengaged with learning. If students can be encouraged to learn in small homogeneous groups under the leadership of a mentor, real learning will be more likely to occur.

Read more at Suite101: High School Utilizes Segregation to Improve Achievement High School Utilizes Segregation to Improve Achievement

The whole thing got scrapped before it got off the ground. PC run amuck imoSchool scraps race-specific mentoring program - CNN.com

 

[Jetboogieman]

Read more at Suite101: High School Utilizes Segregation to Improve Achievement High School Utilizes Segregation to Improve Achievement

The whole thing got scrapped before it got off the ground. PC run amuck imoSchool scraps race-specific mentoring program - CNN.com

Now lets say I entertain the notion that such a thing could work...

Why in gods name would that be YOUR FIRST suggestion "Seperate the blacks and the whites"...

Yep, that was my first thought too... /facepalm

 

[Barbbtx]

Now lets say I entertain the notion that such a thing could work...

Why in gods name would that be YOUR FIRST suggestion "Seperate the blacks and the whites"...

Yep, that was my first thought too... /facepalm

It just happened to be in the news recently and it came to mind when thinking of new inventive ideas.
I'm all for anything that works. If what works is a few minutes out of the day where black boys are mentored by black men then I say it's worth doing. I'm also for seperating girls from boys in math classes because that has been known to work. I say schools should be free to experiment and if it works in their school maybe it can be adopted in others.
That sure beats the heck out of throwing more money at failed programs.

 

[Jetboogieman]

It just happened to be in the news recently and it came to mind when thinking of new inventive ideas.
I'm all for anything that works. If what works is a few minutes out of the day where black boys are mentored by black men then I say it's worth doing. I'm also for seperating girls from boys in math classes because that has been known to work. I say schools should be free to experiment and if it works in their school maybe it can be adopted in others.
That sure beats the heck out of throwing more money at failed programs.

While that's true, I guess I just can't wrap my head around the idea that teaching kids from an early age that seperating by race can be a positive is a good idea.

But perhaps that's my South African bias talking I dunno...

 

[Barbbtx]

While that's true, I guess I just can't wrap my head around the idea that teaching kids from an early age that seperating by race can be a positive is a good idea.

But perhaps that's my South African bias talking I dunno...

Perhaps this video will help you to better understand what the school wanted to do. The man who was supposed to be against it, even seemed to come around toward the end.

Pennsylvania school experiments with 'segregation' - CNN.com

 

[Jetboogieman]

Perhaps this video will help you to better understand what the school wanted to do. The man who was supposed to be against it, even seemed to come around toward the end.

Pennsylvania school experiments with 'segregation' - CNN.com

I think my problem with it is a philosophical one, I'm all for ideas that work.

I'll have to look more into it.

 

[Redress]

It just happened to be in the news recently and it came to mind when thinking of new inventive ideas.
I'm all for anything that works. If what works is a few minutes out of the day where black boys are mentored by black men then I say it's worth doing. I'm also for seperating girls from boys in math classes because that has been known to work. I say schools should be free to experiment and if it works in their school maybe it can be adopted in others.
That sure beats the heck out of throwing more money at failed programs.

Perhaps this video will help you to better understand what the school wanted to do. The man who was supposed to be against it, even seemed to come around toward the end.

Pennsylvania school experiments with 'segregation' - CNN.com

A couple thoughts on education spending and in reply to Barb's comments. First, public schools serve more functions than just teaching the three "R's". One important thing that students get out of the school system is learning social skills. It's not taught per se, but is still an important part of school. Therein lies my potential issue with the programs you mention. However, if it is shown that it does not have negative impacts on social skills and racial outlooks, then I would have no problem with such programs.

It is also important to understand that frequently in order to save money, you first have to spend money. In the case of education, we need a very comprehensive study down on school systems across the country to find what does and does not work both in public and private schools. We can then hopefully find ways to spend smarter, and thereby spend less, while improving education overall. Out of all of government spending, the two places I think you should not just cut first and let the organizations figure out how to handle it are education and the military. Those two are too important to my mind to take chances with.

I am reminded of when Clinton was president, and he put Gore in change of finding ways to make government more efficient to save money. That kind of thing, while requiring an outlay of some money upfront to pay for the study, tends to pay for itself many times over.

 

[Mr. Invisible]

As much as I hate to say it, everything does need to be on the table, but not just in terms of cuts, but in terms of tax increases and reform as well. We need to do serious spending cuts (or at least revamp) SS and Medicare/Medicaid, as well as increase taxes on the wealthy and make reforms like "If your company knowingly engages in risky behavior and s*** happens, then don't expect a bail out."

Edit:

When it comes to education, what I think we need to do is a fundamental shift in how we teach children and how we keep teachers. I am a product of public schooling. I think that education-wise we place to much emphasis on tests as a way to measure intelligence (which in reality is memorizing BS) instead of actual understanding and analysis. Also, teachers should be subject to reviews from a mixture of students, teachers, administrators and parents.

 

[Redress]

As much as I hate to say it, everything does need to be on the table, but not just in terms of cuts, but in terms of tax increases and reform as well. We need to do serious spending cuts (or at least revamp) SS and Medicare/Medicaid, as well as increase taxes on the wealthy and make reforms like "If your company knowingly engages in risky behavior and s*** happens, then don't expect a bail out."

Absolutely everything should be on the table. I think the intent of this thread was to show that every one supports cutting spending, but people don't really want any programs cut. To my mind, everything should be cut, no sacred cows. The caveats to that are what I posted above, and that I think we should hold off until further into a recovery.

Edit:

When it comes to education, what I think we need to do is a fundamental shift in how we teach children and how we keep teachers. I am a product of public schooling. I think that education-wise we place to much emphasis on tests as a way to measure intelligence (which in reality is memorizing BS) instead of actual understanding and analysis. Also, teachers should be subject to reviews from a mixture of students, teachers, administrators and parents.

Depends on the test what it measures. A math test does not measure memorization for example. Multiple choice tests can be passed without having more than a small knowledge of the subject(family trait: we all in my family can pass any multiple choice tests given us, simply by reading the first few questions and learning the test writers style). I think that the school systems in the US can be improved, and we can at the same time cut spending there, if we put the effort into figuring our ahead of time how to do it right.

 

[reefedjib]

As much as I hate to say it, everything does need to be on the table, but not just in terms of cuts, but in terms of tax increases and reform as well.

Yep, everything on the table. I find it humorous that the only item that had a higher percentage for reduction was global poverty reduction. I strongly favor cutting spending as opposed to raising taxes. States will be raising taxes themselves for their shortfalls, so the fed govt shouldn't add to the burden...except...

as well as increase taxes on the wealthy

I totally disagree with this. If we are going to raise taxes, we should a) lower the lower boundary for the bottom tax bracket and b) raise the percentage of the lower brackets to eliminate the progressive taxation system. At the same percentage, the high earners will still pay more in tax. Raising the rate for the bottom bracket will raise more revenue than raising the top rate.

 

[FilmFestGuy]

As much as I hate to say it, everything does need to be on the table, but not just in terms of cuts, but in terms of tax increases and reform as well. We need to do serious spending cuts (or at least revamp) SS and Medicare/Medicaid, as well as increase taxes on the wealthy and make reforms like "If your company knowingly engages in risky behavior and s*** happens, then don't expect a bail out."

Edit:

When it comes to education, what I think we need to do is a fundamental shift in how we teach children and how we keep teachers. I am a product of public schooling. I think that education-wise we place to much emphasis on tests as a way to measure intelligence (which in reality is memorizing BS) instead of actual understanding and analysis. Also, teachers should be subject to reviews from a mixture of students, teachers, administrators and parents.

I agree...and thanks for taking the thread back where it belongs - on SPENDING!

Now, with regards to education, I do think that we should consider bringing reformers in like Geoffrey Canada. I personally think school consolidation around the nation is part of the problem. If a smaller school is troubled, it will be much easier to fix. But, now we have all these mega-schools and larger entities are harder to steer right than smaller ones.

 

[VanceMack]

Yeah, right, they're just holding the ball and not doing anything with it. :roll: The Tea Party just hasn't got the courage or strength of will to make hard cuts that are necessary for real fiscal conservatism.

When it comes to spending, the Tea Party reminds me of the Prayer of Saint Augustine: "Lord, make me chaste... just not yet!"

:doh

Please by all means show us the 'Tea Party' in power.

And BTW...with all your bitching and critique of the 'Tea Party' (a political non-entity) where the **** are you on your criticism of the spending efforts of Republicans? Or Democrats? Or for that matter Libertarians? (oh wait...there are no elected representative Libertarians). But the one entity that is consistently banging the drum AGAINST the 14 trillion dollar debt and deficit spending...and you want to smack THAT monkey???

 

[Guy Incognito]

BTW...with all your bitching and critique of the 'Tea Party' (a political non-entity) where the **** are you on your criticism of the spending efforts of Republicans? Or Democrats? Or for that matter Libertarians? (oh wait...there are no elected representative Libertarians).

I'm surprised to see people are still trying to make this argument. Didn't you see the State of the Union? There was a Republican reply and a Tea Party reply. At this point they are practically a third party, at the least a wing of the Republican party. Are they in power? Well, according to their own boasting they are... at least when it's convenient.

But the one entity that is consistently banging the drum AGAINST the 14 trillion dollar debt and deficit spending...and you want to smack THAT monkey???

Yes, because the fiscal conservatism of the Tea Party is their one redeeming quality. Amid all their racism and xenophobia directed at Latino immigrants and the Islamic religion, at least they are talking sense about the budget. That is why it is important to underscore their hypocrisy in this regard. Because the one good idea the Tea Party has, cutting spending, they cannot live up to. Still plenty of racism though. Must be easier to be a racist demagogue than make difficult cuts to the budget. Go figure.

 

[VanceMack]

I'm surprised to see people are still trying to make this argument. Didn't you see the State of the Union? There was a Republican reply and a Tea Party reply. At this point they are practically a third party, at the least a wing of the Republican party. Are they in power? Well, according to their own boasting they are... at least when it's convenient.
Yes, because the fiscal conservatism of the Tea Party is their one redeeming quality. Amid all their racism and xenophobia directed at Latino immigrants and the Islamic religion, at least they are talking sense about the budget. That is why it is important to underscore their hypocrisy in this regard. Because the one good idea the Tea Party has, cutting spending, they cannot live up to. Still plenty of racism though. Must be easier to be a racist demagogue than make difficult cuts to the budget. Go figure.

I see. So because people believe in the rule of law and are anti-ILLEGAL immigration, you brand them racist. Oh...and then for fun, you attack the only group of people in congress trying to curb federal spending. As if you actually give a **** about curbing spending. Gotta say, dude...your logic on this is freqin out there...like...in super-secret land.

 

[Barbbtx]

I'm surprised to see people are still trying to make this argument. Didn't you see the State of the Union? There was a Republican reply and a Tea Party reply. At this point they are practically a third party, at the least a wing of the Republican party. Are they in power? Well, according to their own boasting they are... at least when it's convenient.




Yes, because the fiscal conservatism of the Tea Party is their one redeeming quality. Amid all their racism and xenophobia directed at Latino immigrants and the Islamic religion, at least they are talking sense about the budget. That is why it is important to underscore their hypocrisy in this regard. Because the one good idea the Tea Party has, cutting spending, they cannot live up to. Still plenty of racism though. Must be easier to be a racist demagogue than make difficult cuts to the budget. Go figure.

Racist Tea Party Elects Blacks, Indians and Latinos In A Sneaky Ploy | The American Catholic


Racist Tea Party Elects Blacks, Indians and Latinos In A Sneaky Ploy
Saturday, November 6, 2010 A.D. | Author Joe Hargrave

What other explanation could there be for this?
Why, it’s quite obvious that in an attempt to pull the wool over the eyes of the nation’s oppressed women and minorities, the racist and sexist Tea Party, along with the general swath of racist and sexist Republicans, elected two black conservatives to Congress, an Indian woman and a Mexican woman as governors, and a whole bunch of Latino guys to various offices. It is equally obvious that these misguided souls were duped by the cunning white man into becoming pawns for the perpetuation of the power and privileges of white Amerikkka.


Here are the real racists, and they aren't from the tea party.

 

[Goshin]

Increasing tax rates would be an excellent way to destroy our already tottering economy.

Cuts are what is really needed. Real, painful, deep cuts.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Increasing tax rates would be an excellent way to destroy our already tottering economy.

Cuts are what is really needed. Real, painful, deep cuts.

In reality, either way we go will harm our economy. Thats the primary reason we haven't cut spending yet.

 

[SheWolf]

I look at it this way: we all know we've got to cut the budget, it's out of control. 30 cents of every dollar the Fed spends is debt. If we don't do something about this, it is going to wreck our economy.

But everybody also knows that those cuts are going to make life harder for someone they know. That makes it hard to say "Yes, cut my widowed Mom's Social Security, Medicare and drug benefits."

(Sorry, Mom, but it's for the good of America. :mrgreen: )

Like a couple of years ago, when my employer largely eliminated overtime... I effectively took a 20% paycut. I KNEW my household budget had to be trimmed, but almost every line-item I looked at was unpleasant to consider. Take a sandwich to work instead of eating out? Bleh. Buy cheaper brand X instead of preferred Y? Drive less to cut the gas bill? Well that's not fun. Put off buying that S&W MP40 I wanted? Oh, fudge.

But nonetheless, cuts had to be made, like or not.

We're probably going to have a cut a lot of things that we'd rather not cut, if we want to remain a solvent nation with a functioning economy. Even defense cuts, which I more commonly oppose, need to be on the table. Social programs, definitely... including my widowed mother's SS/Medicare. (Sorry Mom, we'll have to find a way to make do.)

But she paid into her SS, right?

What do you expect her to do if she loses that income, are going to support her or say... sorry mum, you'll have to make do :shrug:

 

[Slartibartfast]

But she paid into her SS, right?

What do you expect her to do if she loses that income, are going to support her or say... sorry mum, you'll have to make do :shrug:

Wont happen. The old people guild is quite powerful.