The Part Of America Without Education (1 Viewer)

[rhinefire]

Listening to some gangs on the radio this morning showed me there are parts of society where education does not exist. These gang members do not relate to education, only survival. 100% never think about what they want to be. All were asked the question "what do you want to be" and none answered, none. One was recovering from being shot and said he would like to clean himself up and live "a couple more years". He is 20! We drift away from what is here in parts of this country. We shake our heads when we hear of the outrageous number of shootings in Chicgo but this program explained why. These shootings are their way of life just like going to work is our way of life. Sociologists for decades talk of what is "wrong" with the cities But is it wrong or is it the way things are? This was only 30 minutes in length but ruely a oul opener. To think there are young peole with zero hope, zero belief in a future of any kind that wake up in a room with no thought of doing anything other than robbing, and killing and dying is death itself only in slow motion.

 

[MaggieD]

Listening to some gangs on the radio this morning showed me there are parts of society where education does not exist. These gang members do not relate to education, only survival. 100% never think about what they want to be. All were asked the question "what do you want to be" and none answered, none. One was recovering from being shot and said he would like to clean himself up and live "a couple more years". He is 20! We drift away from what is here in parts of this country. We shake our heads when we hear of the outrageous number of shootings in Chicgo but this program explained why. These shootings are their way of life just like going to work is our way of life. Sociologists for decades talk of what is "wrong" with the cities But is it wrong or is it the way things are? This was only 30 minutes in length but ruely a oul opener. To think there are young peole with zero hope, zero belief in a future of any kind that wake up in a room with no thought of doing anything other than robbing, and killing and dying is death itself only in slow motion.

When I owned my business, I worked with a man from Chicago's inner-city who was employed by an uber-large corporation. He was probably about 35 years old . . . hired, I'm assuming as part of his company's affirmative action program. I say that because my company (me) was paid by the corporation to edit everything he wrote into intelligent narrative. Our educational system had failed him. Although he had a B.A. degree, he couldn't spell, could barely read and couldn't put a coherent sentence pen to paper.

He told me that, when he was 17 years old, he made a decision: he wanted to live. So he joined the service. Looking about him in his neighborhood, most of the males, by age 25, were either dead or in prison. He spent 4 years in the army . . . came out . . . got his education paid for . . . and, thanks to affirmative action, had a wonderful job with a multi-national company.

I think about him every once in a while. He was happily married with two children. Lived in a middle-class neighborhood. Took great pride in his kids' education. Private school. He knew how important education was and felt blessed to be where he was in life. Affirmative Action worked for Nate.

I wish it had worked better for others.

 

[GottaGo]

Listening to some gangs on the radio this morning showed me there are parts of society where education does not exist. These gang members do not relate to education, only survival. 100% never think about what they want to be. All were asked the question "what do you want to be" and none answered, none. One was recovering from being shot and said he would like to clean himself up and live "a couple more years". He is 20! We drift away from what is here in parts of this country. We shake our heads when we hear of the outrageous number of shootings in Chicgo but this program explained why. These shootings are their way of life just like going to work is our way of life. Sociologists for decades talk of what is "wrong" with the cities But is it wrong or is it the way things are? This was only 30 minutes in length but ruely a oul opener. To think there are young peole with zero hope, zero belief in a future of any kind that wake up in a room with no thought of doing anything other than robbing, and killing and dying is death itself only in slow motion.

Though environment has a great influence especially in urban areas, at some point, a choice was made. Without guidance, preferably from a parent or adult with some vague understanding of life, they become lost and just flow with the tide. Some eventually see what's happening, and get out, make something of themselves, though the past isn't easy to shake. I've learned this from a friend of mine who lived the life.

It's truly sad that some get sucked down in the whirlpool, but you can't force them to break the chains. They have to make that choice. And we can't make that choice for them.

 

[imagep]

When I owned my business, I worked with a man from Chicago's inner-city who was employed by an uber-large corporation. He was probably about 35 years old . . . hired, I'm assuming as part of his company's affirmative action program. I say that because my company (me) was paid by the corporation to edit everything he wrote into intelligent narrative. Our educational system had failed him. Although he had a B.A. degree, he couldn't spell, could barely read and couldn't put a coherent sentence pen to paper.

He told me that, when he was 17 years old, he made a decision: he wanted to live. So he joined the service. Looking about him in his neighborhood, most of the males, by age 25, were either dead or in prison. He spent 4 years in the army . . . came out . . . got his education paid for . . . and, thanks to affirmative action, had a wonderful job with a multi-national company.

I think about him every once in a while. He was happily married with two children. Lived in a middle-class neighborhood. Took great pride in his kids' education. Private school. He knew how important education was and felt blessed to be where he was in life. Affirmative Action worked for Nate.

I wish it had worked better for others.

The down side of that story is that someone who did have a truly decent education (with or without a college degree), and could effectively communicate through writing, lost the opportunity to be middle class, and is now likely a bagger in a grocery store.

 

[MaggieD]

The down side of that story is that someone who did have a truly decent education (with or without a college degree), and could effectively communicate through writing, lost the opportunity to be middle class, and is now likely a bagger in a grocery store.

And, if you really believe that, I have that proverbial bridge for ya'.

 

[specklebang]

I'm not following your logic.

If citizen A gets a job, citizen B can't get one? Seriously?

The down side of that story is that someone who did have a truly decent education (with or without a college degree), and could effectively communicate through writing, lost the opportunity to be middle class, and is now likely a bagger in a grocery store.

 

[imagep]

I'm not following your logic.

If citizen A gets a job, citizen B can't get one? Seriously?

Just in case you guys haven't noticed, we currently have a shortage of jobs. Particularly good ones. There's simply not enough jobs for everyone who wants one to have one. Anytime that you have a limited number of anything, then one person gets more, someone else gets less.

Now granted one can start his own business, and thus create his own job, but most people aren't cut out for that.

 

[specklebang]

There's no job shortage except for those of limited ability or unfortunate location. Companies are getting plenty of H1B workers on grounds there aren't enough domestic workers. The people I know have no trouble finding jobs even when displaced by H1B.

The job shortage is for manual workers. There are a lot of things we don't do anymore. We don't have as many robotic jobs because now we actually have robots. Is that the job shortage we're discussing? Or can someone with a useful education and propensity for the field chosen, not be able to find work?

Just in case you guys haven't noticed, we currently have a shortage of jobs. Particularly good ones. There's simply not enough jobs for everyone who wants one to have one. Anytime that you have a limited number of anything, then one person gets more, someone else gets less.

Now granted one can start his own business, and thus create his own job, but most people aren't cut out for that.

 

[imagep]

There's no job shortage except for those of limited ability or unfortunate location. Companies are getting plenty of H1B workers on grounds there aren't enough domestic workers. The people I know have no trouble finding jobs even when displaced by H1B.

The job shortage is for manual workers. There are a lot of things we don't do anymore. We don't have as many robotic jobs because now we actually have robots. Is that the job shortage we're discussing? Or can someone with a useful education and propensity for the field chosen, not be able to find work?

Obviously you are totally oblivious to the unemployment problems that we have had since the beginning of the Great Recession.

 

[specklebang]

Obviously, you are totally oblivious to the fact that while some people are affected, there is still a large middle class. You choose to skip the sentence: The job shortage is for manual workers. There are a lot of things we don't do anymore. We don't have as many robotic jobs because now we actually have robots. Is that the job shortage we're discussing? Or can someone with a useful education and propensity for the field chosen, not be able to find work? ...so you can push the rhetoric.

Please remind me when there has been 100% employment and all jobs paid that "living wage" you promote. Then explain your pro-immigration position in that context. Then explain why your chosen leader hasn't brought any solutions to the table.

In the time of the Unicorns, we all made $25 an hour. After the Unicorns left....




:

Obviously you are totally oblivious to the unemployment problems that we have had since the beginning of the Great Recession.

 

[Paschendale]

Just in case you guys haven't noticed, we currently have a shortage of jobs. Particularly good ones. There's simply not enough jobs for everyone who wants one to have one. Anytime that you have a limited number of anything, then one person gets more, someone else gets less.

Now granted one can start his own business, and thus create his own job, but most people aren't cut out for that.

And, sadly, there are many specialized jobs that can't be filled, due to a shortage in skilled people able to do them. But no one, in the realm of government or business, is willing to undertake training people to do them. We just expect people to magically know what skills they need to learn and be able to afford to learn them.

And what's with the OP starting for just a moment with the idea that poor neighborhoods have crappy schools... and then suddenly gang members! And whining about cities. And an ignorant conflation of all poor city youth with the few violent ones seen on TV.

 

[imagep]

Obviously, you are totally oblivious to the fact that while some people are affected, there is still a large middle class. You choose to skip the sentence: The job shortage is for manual workers. There are a lot of things we don't do anymore. We don't have as many robotic jobs because now we actually have robots. Is that the job shortage we're discussing? Or can someone with a useful education and propensity for the field chosen, not be able to find work? ...so you can push the rhetoric.

Please remind me when there has been 100% employment and all jobs paid that "living wage" you promote. Then explain your pro-immigration position in that context. Then explain why your chosen leader hasn't brought any solutions to the table.

In the time of the Unicorns, we all made $25 an hour. After the Unicorns left....




:

I have never suggested that all jobs should pay a living wage, although I have said that more jobs should pay a living wage and that we have too much income disparity. And I don't really remember presenting any pro-immigration position, not in this thread anyway. Nor did I vote for Obama (either time). I think you have me confused with some liberal.

Just to jog your memory, I'm the guy who keeps harping on how technology is going to eventually eliminate most jobs, and that eventually, unless we want to live in a welfare state or unless we are willing to accept massive poverty due to massive unemployment, we must start figuring out how to have a system which allows every family to have at least one income earner.

I'm very well aware of the fact that at some point in the future, we really won't need very many unskilled workers at all, practically none, and we are rapidly moving in that direction.

Regardless of the cause of the job shortage, there is one, and thats a fact, not a theory. We seem to agree on why we have a job shortage, now we just need to find a cure.

 

[MaggieD]

There's no job shortage except for those of limited ability or unfortunate location. Companies are getting plenty of H1B workers on grounds there aren't enough domestic workers. The people I know have no trouble finding jobs even when displaced by H1B.

The job shortage is for manual workers. There are a lot of things we don't do anymore. We don't have as many robotic jobs because now we actually have robots. Is that the job shortage we're discussing? Or can someone with a useful education and propensity for the field chosen, not be able to find work?

The young man was determined to be a basketball coach at the college level. Got all the degrees he needed, and then he applied everywhere. He wouldn't consider anything other than college level. His parents encouraged him to start at the high school level. No. That wouldn't do. So he spent two years being a personal trainer and coaching volunteer programs . . . and looking for his dream job. He's now accepted an assistant coach position at a high school.

The wonderful thing about our country is that he was able to do that. The wisdom of doing that? That's another story. He doesn't belong in the list of those who couldn't find jobs, however. He just couldn't find the one he wanted.

 

[clownboy]

And, sadly, there are many specialized jobs that can't be filled, due to a shortage in skilled people able to do them. But no one, in the realm of government or business, is willing to undertake training people to do them. We just expect people to magically know what skills they need to learn and be able to afford to learn them.

And what's with the OP starting for just a moment with the idea that poor neighborhoods have crappy schools... and then suddenly gang members! And whining about cities. And an ignorant conflation of all poor city youth with the few violent ones seen on TV.

The training is there for those who step up to take it. My nephew who skated through high school taking the easiest path possible has finally discovered that. He kept telling me that same sad story about how the government doesn't just train his ass, but when he actually got off his duff and looked for real... Now he's working a minimum wage job at a burger joint while he's going to an HVAC training program. The entry level pay in that industry is roughly twice minimum wage.

 

[specklebang]

Yes, I must have confused you with someone else. My apologies.

I thought you were the same guy who posted:

Hunger itself might not make people work harder, but the fear of being hungry does. If we provide people who accept poverty with just enough money to get by, thats all they are going to do - just get by. If we tell them that they have to fend for themselves, they will fend for themselves, make a living, and sometimes end up making a darned good living, far in excess of "just getting by".

in another thread. Is there anything contradictory about this? "Get off your ass and get a job" "we don't have enough jobs".

I'm so easily confused. We will always have low skill jobs in service and retail. These are big industries. That's where people start out and some move up and some don't. So, by what means are we giving everyone a job per household? I'm all ears

I have never suggested that all jobs should pay a living wage, although I have said that more jobs should pay a living wage and that we have too much income disparity. And I don't really remember presenting any pro-immigration position, not in this thread anyway. Nor did I vote for Obama (either time). I think you have me confused with some liberal.

Just to jog your memory, I'm the guy who keeps harping on how technology is going to eventually eliminate most jobs, and that eventually, unless we want to live in a welfare state or unless we are willing to accept massive poverty due to massive unemployment, we must start figuring out how to have a system which allows every family to have at least one income earner.

I'm very well aware of the fact that at some point in the future, we really won't need very many unskilled workers at all, practically none, and we are rapidly moving in that direction.

Regardless of the cause of the job shortage, there is one, and thats a fact, not a theory. We seem to agree on why we have a job shortage, now we just need to find a cure.

 

[ttwtt78640]

I have never suggested that all jobs should pay a living wage, although I have said that more jobs should pay a living wage and that we have too much income disparity. And I don't really remember presenting any pro-immigration position, not in this thread anyway. Nor did I vote for Obama (either time). I think you have me confused with some liberal.

Just to jog your memory, I'm the guy who keeps harping on how technology is going to eventually eliminate most jobs, and that eventually, unless we want to live in a welfare state or unless we are willing to accept massive poverty due to massive unemployment, we must start figuring out how to have a system which allows every family to have at least one income earner.

I'm very well aware of the fact that at some point in the future, we really won't need very many unskilled workers at all, practically none, and we are rapidly moving in that direction.

Regardless of the cause of the job shortage, there is one, and thats a fact, not a theory. We seem to agree on why we have a job shortage, now we just need to find a cure.

If you have a shortage of something then you promote/subsidze it, if you have a surplus of something then you discourage/tax it. We now tax wages and subsidize out of wedlock childbirth - go figure. An excess of labor depresses the price of labor, yet you seem to want to increase the price of labor while we have a surplus of it. What exactly do you think we have need of more labor to do? We are basically a service economy allowing most manufactured goods/raw materials to be imported more cheaply than than they can be made/extracted here. A job shortage is the same thing as a labor surplus.

 

[Paschendale]

The training is there for those who step up to take it. My nephew who skated through high school taking the easiest path possible has finally discovered that. He kept telling me that same sad story about how the government doesn't just train his ass, but when he actually got off his duff and looked for real... Now he's working a minimum wage job at a burger joint while he's going to an HVAC training program. The entry level pay in that industry is roughly twice minimum wage.

Good for him. Tell me, how does you looking down on people who don't know about those options or weigh them as too risky fill jobs and give people better lives?

 

[clownboy]

Good for him. Tell me, how does you looking down on people who don't know about those options or weigh them as too risky fill jobs and give people better lives?

The only people I "look down on" are those who sit on their ass and proclaim between commercials that there is no other solution but for someone else to support them.

 

[FilmFestGuy]

The down side of that story is that someone who did have a truly decent education (with or without a college degree), and could effectively communicate through writing, lost the opportunity to be middle class, and is now likely a bagger in a grocery store.

I highly doubt that. They probably found another job somewhere doing the same thing.

When I didn't get a gig in my first stab at a career, I didn't just give up and work at Hardee's for the rest of my life.

This is a narrative that is made up so you can feel victimized and blame someone else. It's just like the girl in Texas who had ****ty grades bitching about people who did get into U of T. They didn't deny her an education. They just told her to go to another college. She could've made better grades and then her point would've been moot; but she didn't. She made mediocre grades by U of T standards and decided to sue.

I see it as no different than blaming Princeton or Stanford for being too expensive for me to go to. I got accepted, because my grades were good, but my family made too much for need-based aid and they don't offer merit scholarships because getting accepted is enough. But there was NOOOO way my dad was going to pay for it, so I went to IU. It'd be different for sure, but it didn't turn me into a bag boy because somebody poorer than me got the aid. I ended up with a life I love.

In reality, whining about how Affirmative Action is to blame for personal failures is really no different than urban youths or small-town rural kids blaming their environment for their personal failures. EXCEPT the urban youth and rural poor kids have fewer resources than most.

 

[specklebang]

Bush and Obama have proven that anyone can be President.:roll:

But if you won't settle for less than the Presidency, you might be out of work for a while.

The young man was determined to be a basketball coach at the college level. Got all the degrees he needed, and then he applied everywhere. He wouldn't consider anything other than college level. His parents encouraged him to start at the high school level. No. That wouldn't do. So he spent two years being a personal trainer and coaching volunteer programs . . . and looking for his dream job. He's now accepted an assistant coach position at a high school.

The wonderful thing about our country is that he was able to do that. The wisdom of doing that? That's another story. He doesn't belong in the list of those who couldn't find jobs, however. He just couldn't find the one he wanted.

 

[FilmFestGuy]

I have never suggested that all jobs should pay a living wage, although I have said that more jobs should pay a living wage and that we have too much income disparity. And I don't really remember presenting any pro-immigration position, not in this thread anyway. Nor did I vote for Obama (either time). I think you have me confused with some liberal.

Just to jog your memory, I'm the guy who keeps harping on how technology is going to eventually eliminate most jobs, and that eventually, unless we want to live in a welfare state or unless we are willing to accept massive poverty due to massive unemployment, we must start figuring out how to have a system which allows every family to have at least one income earner.

I'm very well aware of the fact that at some point in the future, we really won't need very many unskilled workers at all, practically none, and we are rapidly moving in that direction.

Regardless of the cause of the job shortage, there is one, and thats a fact, not a theory. We seem to agree on why we have a job shortage, now we just need to find a cure.

On this one, it would be nice if we all worked together to figure something out, wouldn't it?

There are jobs and there are needs that still need to be met. We just need to figure out how to get them connected in ways that benefit everyone.

 

[Paschendale]

The only people I "look down on" are those who sit on their ass and proclaim between commercials that there is no other solution but for someone else to support them.

And how does looking down on them help to change that situation?

 

[MaggieD]

Bush and Obama have proven that anyone can be President.:roll:

But if you won't settle for less than the Presidency, you might be out of work for a while.

:lol: :lol:

 

[clownboy]

And how does looking down on them help to change that situation?

Did I propose that as an overall solution? Quit the silliness.

 

[X Factor]

Good for him. Tell me, how does you looking down on people who don't know about those options or weigh them as too risky fill jobs and give people better lives?

And how does looking down on them help to change that situation?

At some point it's not up to us anymore. I remember my brother telling me while I was in college that school just wasn't for him. He wanted to have fun with life. Now he's bounced from job to job, including working at a convenience store a couple years before finally getting a decent job in a warehouse, and by decent, I mean it's full time and has some benefits. We had all told him how important a college degree was and my parents would have paid for it (if he had gone to school locally) but he didn't want to hear it at the time.