The "Men in the womens restroom" problem, a solution.[W:230]

[Captain America]

re: The "Men in the womens restroom" problem, a solution.[W:230]

How about you teach the wife to take care of herself so it doesn't matter who she is in the restroom with? If a man was only interested in going into the public restroom to rape women it is a horrible place to do it and presents an incredibly stupid risk to do it, whether dressed as a woman or not.

I guess I'll have to take your word for it. Sounds like you know what you're talking about. I got no dog in the fight.

 

[Captain America]

re: The "Men in the womens restroom" problem, a solution.[W:230]

Only if the lady is looking under other stalls or so caught up in other people rather than doing what she is in the bathroom to do to begin with. Honestly, how many women care and why should it matter if those few do? Most women simply walk into the restroom and do their business, wash their hands, maybe brush their hair, and leave. It isn't exactly a social hangout. Even when crowded, doing your business is just that much more urgent so that you don't have to hear others complain. There have been dozens, if not more, people I've seen in the women's restroom who easily could have been men but it simply wasn't something I could tell. But it doesn't matter since I know how to lock a door and yell if anyone, male or female tries to do something inappropriate in the restroom.

Gosh I hate it when people come late to the party......

We have already discussed that. I said almost the same thing. Methinks you might have jumped in mid-thread.

 

[roguenuke]

re: The "Men in the womens restroom" problem, a solution.[W:230]

And that's just exactly why people have an issue, what if you're a man with a weird fetish or worse just waltzing into the womens restroom? Middle ground, point of the thread. You're talking an absurd extreme.

If its a man with a weird fetish, why would he risk doing something in a public restroom in the first place only if the laws said he could be there so long as he simply claimed he might feel like a woman if questioned? This is what doesn't make sense to me. It isn't like those men who would assault a woman would think to themselves "if only I could get into the women's restroom and just not be challenged I could have free rein at doing whatever I want with the women in there". Only really stupid sexual predators would do such a thing and likely would get caught right away.

 

[roguenuke]

re: The "Men in the womens restroom" problem, a solution.[W:230]

:lamo That made me spit soda on my phone. Good one. :lamo

I thought immediately about these mothers who are potty training from birth and actually have their babies piss in the sink when out in public. Much worse situation to me than having someone who might be a guy or even is a guy using the stall next to me.

 

[roguenuke]

re: The "Men in the womens restroom" problem, a solution.[W:230]

No, I am saying that they can expect so pushback sometimes, as we all do in life, almost constantly. I am not suggesting violence, but I am suggesting that the majority always retains the right to tell the minority that they are wrong, and it will probably happen here.

WTF, isn't advocating violence against TOS here, am mean I am new but...?

Am I supposed to be stupid or something?

Was this a trick question?

Anyone has the right to tell someone else they are wrong. They do not however have the right to use the law, the government to prevent the minority from doing something just because the majority feels that something is "wrong" and should be shunned.

 

[vesper]

re: The "Men in the womens restroom" problem, a solution.[W:230]

I am not following why this is an issue. If you are a man but dressed like a woman, use the men's restroom. Women do it all the time! They dress masculine, their hair is butch looking. No makeup. Cell phone, wallet, comb in back pockets. Heck they could walk into a men's restroom and no one would notice until they squat to pee.

 

[roguenuke]

re: The "Men in the womens restroom" problem, a solution.[W:230]

I am not following why this is an issue. If you are a man but dressed like a woman, use the men's restroom. Women do it all the time! They dress masculine, their hair is butch looking. No makeup. Cell phone, wallet, comb in back pockets. Heck they could walk into a men's restroom and no one would notice until they squat to pee.

It shouldn't matter if they use the women's restroom though.

And women don't have to dress masculine to use the men's restroom either.

 

[Captain America]

re: The "Men in the womens restroom" problem, a solution.[W:230]

I just wanna say, that even though Renae (sp?) and I are not always (okay, never,) politically eye-to-eye, I have to admire her courage. I know little to nothing about the topic. What little I do know is mostly from Renae's (sp?) willingness to openly share and educate the masses about the issue. Education and understanding leads to tolerance and acceptance.

But I have to say. Someone being such a hard-conservative, and a tranvestite, at the same time, makes about us much sense to me as being a black KKK member. I am a work in progress. Have patience with me.

And EVERYBODY! Listen to **** up! Try to be nicer to each other. No matter what you think, feel or believe, being thoughtful, polite and civil only makes the room we are all in smell better.

 

[Hawkeye10]

re: The "Men in the womens restroom" problem, a solution.[W:230]

Anyone has the right to tell someone else they are wrong. They do not however have the right to use the law, the government to prevent the minority from doing something just because the majority feels that something is "wrong" and should be shunned.

The car thieves and rapists will be thrilled if you ever get your way.

 

[JumpinJack]

re: The "Men in the womens restroom" problem, a solution.[W:230]

It is very rare for any men to try to rape women in public restrooms, particularly ones where there is enough foot traffic to warrant a disguise or excuse to enter a restroom without being questioned by anyone else besides perhaps the target.

Oh, well....just a few rapes is okay, then. Esp. when they're 13 year old girls.

Public female restrooms have long been known as dangerous places for women who go there alone.
Women Warned Of Unusual Rash Of Attempted Sexual Assaults In Downtown Restrooms « CBS Los Angeles
Man charged in sexual assault at store; police urge caution when using public restrooms | City of Taylor

A 6-year-old on a kindergarten field trip in Albany, NY was subjected to sexual contact by a 22 year-old man in a museum men’s room in June, 2013. His mother was waiting outside the door.
A 12-year-old boy in New York City reported being raped in the men’s room of a South Street Seaport shopping area while his grandmother waited outside, also in June 2013.
A 6-year-old boy was reportedly sexually assaulted in a public bathroom at a Berkley, CA marina, also in June 2013.
In January, 2013 in West Nyack, N.Y., a man hid in the women’s room in a mall. He was accused of following a 7-year-old girl into a stall and sexually assaulting her while her father and a sibling waited by the bathroom entrance.

When can my child use the public restroom alone? - ChildrensMD

In September 2013 in Oklahoma City, an 8-year-old girl walked into a gas station restroom to discover a nearly-naked man waiting inside. He locked her inside and attempted to strangle her with a coat before her parents were able to get the door unlocked.

In January 2014, a man entered the women's restroom at a Denny's restaurant and sexually assaulted a 10-year-old girl as she stepped out of the stall.

Last fall, a man followed a 7-year-old girl into the women's restroom at park, where he sexually assaulted her.

Stranger Danger? Sexual Assault and Public Restrooms

It may not happen a lot, but it IS a known danger. Men don't know about it or think about it, since it's not as much a danger for them. Women and girls are TARGETS. Criminals like to strike when their victims can be found alone.

I'm not suggesting that transgenders would assault girls. But that we would lose one of the few ways of spotting these criminals: MEN DON'T GO INTO WOMEN'S BATHROOMS, SO IF SOMEONE SEES A MAN SLIP INTO ONE, THAT'S A RED FLAG. If men are allowed, then that red flag disappears. Some men will be dressed as women (some convincingly, some not), but they don't have to be (women wear t-shirts & jeans, just like men do).

If a girl sees a man in the bathroom, will she recognize the difference between him and someone who wants to be female? How will she recognize a danger, if it's there? Will a serial rapist be able to don a wig and "pass," which gives him free reign to hang out in women's restrooms?

This is yet another way that men differ from women, and which transgender men cannot relate to. Women are targets of crime, solely because of their gender. Waiting in your car to pick up a friend at the mall, going into a public restroom alone, traveling alone by car. Anywhere, everywhere. And it's primarily men who are the criminala targeting them. So it's naturally alarming when men want the right to use women's bathrooms....where women and girls are at their most vulnerable and often alone.

 

[roguenuke]

re: The "Men in the womens restroom" problem, a solution.[W:230]

The car thieves and rapists will be thrilled if you ever get your way.

People have rights to life and property, which means that when another person is doing something that would violate those rights, then that is when the law should step in.

 

[roguenuke]

re: The "Men in the womens restroom" problem, a solution.[W:230]

Oh, well....just a few rapes is okay, then. Esp. when they're 13 year old girls.

Public female restrooms have long been known as dangerous places for women who go there alone.
Women Warned Of Unusual Rash Of Attempted Sexual Assaults In Downtown Restrooms « CBS Los Angeles
Man charged in sexual assault at store; police urge caution when using public restrooms | City of Taylor


When can my child use the public restroom alone? - ChildrensMD


Stranger Danger? Sexual Assault and Public Restrooms

It may not happen a lot, but it IS a known danger. Men don't know about it or think about it, since it's not as much a danger for them. Women and girls are TARGETS. Criminals like to strike when their victims can be found alone.

I'm not suggesting that transgenders would assault girls. But that we would lose one of the few ways of spotting these criminals: MEN DON'T GO INTO WOMEN'S BATHROOMS, SO IF SOMEONE SEES A MAN SLIP INTO ONE, THAT'S A RED FLAG. If men are allowed, then that red flag disappears. Some men will be dressed as women (some convincingly, some not), but they don't have to be (women wear t-shirts & jeans, just like men do).

If a girl sees a man in the bathroom, will she recognize the difference between him and someone who wants to be female? How will she recognize a danger, if it's there? Will a serial rapist be able to don a wig and "pass," which gives him free reign to hang out in women's restrooms?

This is yet another way that men differ from women, and which transgender men cannot relate to. Women are targets of crime, solely because of their gender. Waiting in your car to pick up a friend at the mall, going into a public restroom alone, traveling alone by car. Anywhere, everywhere. And it's primarily men who are the criminala targeting them. So it's naturally alarming when men want the right to use women's bathrooms....where women and girls are at their most vulnerable and often alone.

Some of your links basically prove my point. Why is it okay to subject boys to potential rapists but not girls, women? Women are much more capable of taking care of themselves in public restrooms than young boys are, yet they are encouraged at young ages to go to the restrooms by themselves so that they use the right restroom for their gender.

Oh, and notice that when those ones where the women got attacked it was considered unusual and they were attempted, not executed? Why do you suppose that is? Perhaps because it is stupid to try to attack a person in a public restroom where someone can walk in at any time and interrupt your crime? Or maybe because there are people nearby who can hear whats going on and come to help someone being attacked? The only time it is going to be a real threat is when it is at someplace like a reststop or other secluded area where it wouldn't matter because no one would notice a man going into the women's restroom in the first place so there would be no need for them to even pretend to be transgender.

Plus, no matter how rare it might be for women to sexually assault women or children or men, it can happen, but so can just plain old assaults such as out of anger or for money or simply because theyre crazy. So everything you said can apply to women too.

 

[X Factor]

re: The "Men in the womens restroom" problem, a solution.[W:230]

Be able to articulate exactly why what the person was doing was wrong without any reference to their perceived gender. That would be a good idea. The person's gender doesn't make two shreds of difference if they are doing something illegal in the restroom or even that violates the rules of the establishment that apply to all people (such as perhaps inappropriate touching or comments or purposely exposing yourself to others just for your own amusement or sexual gratification).

So you think the same rule of conduct should apply to trans people too? I ask because I rarely see any mention of how trans people should be expected to act. It's always everyone else.

 

[roguenuke]

re: The "Men in the womens restroom" problem, a solution.[W:230]

So you think the same rule of conduct should apply to trans people too? I ask because I rarely see any mention of how trans people should be expected to act. It's always everyone else.

The same goes for anyone who feels they are being treated unfairly just due to some characteristic about them. And if a transgender person is doing things that it is not acceptable for someone of the gender they identify with to do, then hold them accountable too.

 

[Omgitsme]

re: The "Men in the womens restroom" problem, a solution.[W:230]

This is yet another way that men differ from women, and which transgender men cannot relate to. Women are targets of crime, solely because of their gender. Waiting in your car to pick up a friend at the mall, going into a public restroom alone, traveling alone by car. Anywhere, everywhere. And it's primarily men who are the criminala targeting them. So it's naturally alarming when men want the right to use women's bathrooms....where women and girls are at their most vulnerable and often alone.

Yeah that stuff happens to trans people too.

 

[haymarket]

re: The "Men in the womens restroom" problem, a solution.[W:230]

okay - after reading through all this and having my previous question answered -and I appreciate that - my conclusion is that ones own plumbing and anatomical elimination equipment should determine which rest room one uses. Penis - use the mens room..... vagina - use the ladies room. And what you may be wearing at the time is irrelevant.

 

[AGENT J]

re: The "Men in the womens restroom" problem, a solution.[W:230]

Obviously this is important to me, however I think both sides are getting insane with this stuff.
No, you cannot banish transmen/women from using the correct gender bathrooms. Take that non-sense and get out of here. No, you cannot just decide "Today I'm really the opposite gender" and get a free pass into whatever facility you want to use. Get out of here with that non-sense.

If you are Trans, you MUST respect others. No if and's or but's about it. You want to be treated as a normal person? Act like it. Reagan was right, "Trust but verify". I suggest all Trans folks, need to be in therapy, this is to aide in your transition and ensure you're not harming yourself. This also would allow you to get a small card, that indicates you are in fact, transgender.

What good is a card?

It's trust, for both parties.

Let's say I am out and about, and need to use the ladies room, but someone in there realizes I was born male (I am after all pre-op). I can understand, she may be concerned at the situation. Fine, I can accept that. The cops show up, I pull out my card, she realizes I'm yes, there to use the proper restroom and am no threat, I am calm because while annoying as it might be, nothing will come of it. She might just be hesitant to harrass in the future, and I'll be less concerned about a ruckus if I have to take care of business. Think of it like a handicap sign or other identification. It's not there to single someone out, it's there to let all parties know "it's okay". Once I am fully transitioned, I can keep the card if I like however my DL will show female (that could also be "the card" at that point cause it's not easy to get the M to F on that darn thing.

It will make it far far far less likely then it already IS that a person with devious intent will be in the wrong restroom, and everyone can use the toilet without concern.

That's my compromise solution.

Good post and I applaud you for your efforts and willingness to make a sacrifice that you shouldn't have too.

That said, like SSM/equal rights for gays I dont really see "a problem" per-say. Transgenders using the bathroom of thier choice is fine by me. Logically I cant come up with any reason why they shouldnt be allowed.

Yes I admit, like with gays, blacks, women etc giving them equal rights "others" did and do have a problem with that. Unfortunately that problem is theirs to bare and self created. If people are bothered by transgeders using the restroom they see fit they are simply free not to use public restrooms and their problem is solved.

The other things is i could see your solution being totally unacceptable for others and I could never argue against their concerns of a "card" which they would may find very offensive.

 

[maquiscat]

re: The "Men in the womens restroom" problem, a solution.[W:230]

I also applaud the fact that you respect that some women may not want to see your pre-op privates, and many people wouldn't want their daughters to see them either.

I'm sure it is unintentional, but I see a major premise flaw here. What women are looking at/for other women's privates anyway? For men at unrinals I can see where there is a chance if there are no dividers, but women? How would another woman see a trans' or a cis-female's privates?

 

[maquiscat]

re: The "Men in the womens restroom" problem, a solution.[W:230]

I opposed trans people using bathrooms or locker rooms of the opposite sex. :shrug:

And how would you even know?

 

[maquiscat]

re: The "Men in the womens restroom" problem, a solution.[W:230]

Actually no, its a you have issues problem. I'm fine with the sitter downs using the sitter down facilities, and the stander ups using the stander up facilities.

Since men sit down a lot to use the restroom, you just argued for men and women to be in the same facility when men aren't doing the stand up thing. Think your wording through a little more.

 

[Henrin]

re: The "Men in the womens restroom" problem, a solution.[W:230]

And how would you even know?

It's pretty obvious a lot of times. :lol:

 

[maquiscat]

re: The "Men in the womens restroom" problem, a solution.[W:230]

Let me ask an honest question here as I do not know anybody in this situation and at age 66 - this entire controversy is very new to me ...

is there something wrong with saying if you have a penis you use the mens restroom and if you have a vagina you use the women restroom?

So you want this person

In the women's restroom, because they have a vagina?

 

[maquiscat]

re: The "Men in the womens restroom" problem, a solution.[W:230]

It's pretty obvious a lot of times. :lol:

You are so clueless. Willing to put that to the test?

 

[Henrin]

re: The "Men in the womens restroom" problem, a solution.[W:230]

You are so clueless. Willing to put that to the test?

I have no reason to take some kind of test. Regardless, it's usually harder to tell FTM's than MTF's.

Btw, why is deception on the general population a good thing? Is it really something we should encourage as a society that women should be able to hide out among men or that men should be able to hide out among women? Should people really not be able to tell them apart? Do you think that kind of thing can lead to people being hurt?

 

[Ntharotep]

re: The "Men in the womens restroom" problem, a solution.[W:230]

So you want this person
View attachment 67195384
In the women's restroom, because they have a vagina?

I don't tend to run pageants for who uses the restroom. I'm not planning on going into the woman's restroom myself and I rarely notice who enters the men's room because the business I am conducting there does not lend itself to caring what the other occupants look like.
In fact. It creeps me out a little that there are people taking such close notice to who enters the restrooms...