The Legacy of Kurt Cobain

[Luke Skywalker]

Today marks the 20th anniversary of Kurt Cobain's suicide - we lost an exceptional artist that day and the grunge movement was never to fully recover....

Love him or hate him, I don't think anyone would argue that the man was genuine and never sold out his integrity. He lived it and if there is a Heaven, I believe he is there right now - screaming to God, "Here we are now, entertain us...."

 

[spud_meister]

I'll always remember the day I first heard Cobain's music, it was like a shotgun blast delivered straight to my head.

 

[Redress]

the grunge movement was never to fully recover.

That alone makes today a day to celebrate. That he had to take what he learned from Buzz Osbourne and use it to make crappy pop music is such an incredible waste.

 

[ecofarm]

20 years? Holy crap, I'm old.

 

[Helix]

i had a hard time as a teenager, and his music spoke to me in a way that other music didn't. most of the other stuff at the time didn't connect with me; i felt a lot more bleak and on the outside of whatever social and cultural thing was going on at the time. he did a lot with lyrics and imagery that gets overlooked in the sonic static, but that's also a part of the beauty. it wasn't everyone's cup of tea, but it's real art.

i was sad when he died. i remember hearing about it on the radio on my way home from college. it still sucks.

 

[Luke Skywalker]

I'll always remember the day I first heard Cobain's music, it was like a shotgun blast delivered straight to my head.

That alone makes today a day to celebrate. That he had to take what he learned from Buzz Osbourne and use it to make crappy pop music is such an incredible waste.

Don't know how old y'all are, but I'm 41 - personally, I believe that one had to actually be a part of Generation X to appreciate grunge....:shrug:

 

[Helix]

 

[Redress]

Don't know how old y'all are, but I'm 41 - personally, I believe that one had to actually be a part of Generation X to appreciate grunge....:shrug:

I turn 49 later this month. As a huge Melvins fan, who where not just contemporaries of Nirvana, but infinitely more talented and superior(and for whom Kobain worked as something of a roadie before making it big), the problem is not my generation, but that I expect more from music. This is what grunge would have been if Kobain had not decided to make it pop in order to sell more records:

 

[Luke Skywalker]

I turn 49 later this month. As a huge Melvins fan, who where not just contemporaries of Nirvana, but infinitely more talented and superior(and for whom Kobain worked as something of a roadie before making it big), the problem is not my generation, but that I expect more from music. This is what grunge would have been if Kobain had not decided to make it pop in order to sell more records:

Redress, you have me stumped - I'll confess this is the first I've ever heard of the Melvins.... I had friends whom listened to them growing up, but I never did.... People don't usually perplex me like this when it comes to music (I'm a semi-professional musician) - but you have done that. First time this has ever happened in a debate forum, lol.

 

[Luke Skywalker]

Redress, you have me stumped - I'll confess this is the first I've ever heard of the Melvins.... I had friends whom listened to them growing up, but I never did.... People don't usually perplex me like this when it comes to music (I'm a semi-professional musician) - but you have done that. First time this has ever happened in a debate forum, lol.

LOL, guess I need to download some Melvins/Buzz Osbourne.... - thanks, Redress! Not only did you own me in this thread, but you opened my eyes to another great artist/band. Will make it a point, next time I log into iTunes, to correct my deficiency.... thanks again.

 

[Redress]

Redress, you have me stumped - I'll confess this is the first I've ever heard of the Melvins.... I had friends whom listened to them growing up, but I never did.... People don't usually perplex me like this when it comes to music (I'm a semi-professional musician) - but you have done that. First time this has ever happened in a debate forum, lol.

The Melvins are one of the most influential bands that no one has ever heard of. One of the bands they influenced the most is Nirvana. Go to youtube and listen to the Ozma album by the Melvins, or Gluey Porch Treatment. You will hear the influence clearly. By the time Nirvana broke(I was in the navy at the time), they had moved on and changed their sound somewhat(to an even better sound). Nirvana did take them along on their first big tour(props for that) and even encouraged the Melvins to **** with the fans there, who where not there to hear a band that was not Nirvana. The Melvins would play their set, then announhce they where playing their last song(which would get sarcastic cheers). They then launched into this:



I will also give Nirvana credit for another thing. After they broke, they did a tour of England. They invited Shonen Knife to open for them. If you are not familiar with them, they are a group of tiny japanese women who played Ramones style punk songs, but with super sweet lyrics, about things like playing with Barby dolls, their love of chocolate and this sad hippo they saw at a zoo. Truly great band, incredibly underapreciated and getting to play the bigger venues was awesome for them. To top it off, the guys in Nirvana was incredibly nice to them, helped them set up every night, and would frequently come out during one of Shonen Knife's signature live songs to play and get the crowd fired up.

 

[Luke Skywalker]

The Melvins are one of the most influential bands that no one has ever heard of. One of the bands they influenced the most is Nirvana. Go to youtube and listen to the Ozma album by the Melvins, or Gluey Porch Treatment. You will hear the influence clearly. By the time Nirvana broke(I was in the navy at the time), they had moved on and changed their sound somewhat(to an even better sound). Nirvana did take them along on their first big tour(props for that) and even encouraged the Melvins to **** with the fans there, who where not there to hear a band that was not Nirvana. The Melvins would play their set, then announhce they where playing their last song(which would get sarcastic cheers). They then launched into this:



I will also give Nirvana credit for another thing. After they broke, they did a tour of England. They invited Shonen Knife to open for them. If you are not familiar with them, they are a group of tiny japanese women who played Ramones style punk songs, but with super sweet lyrics, about things like playing with Barby dolls, their love of chocolate and this sad hippo they saw at a zoo. Truly great band, incredibly underapreciated and getting to play the bigger venues was awesome for them. To top it off, the guys in Nirvana was incredibly nice to them, helped them set up every night, and would frequently come out during one of Shonen Knife's signature live songs to play and get the crowd fired up.

Just downloaded "Houdini," "Stoner Witch" and "Bullhead" - guess I have some listening/studying to do now..... Am going to retire for the night and educate myself a little - thanks again, Redress!

 

[Kobie]

<snip>

I love this post so much I want to take it out to a nice dinner, buy it the most expensive champagne, then take it home, lay it down on a bearskin rug by the fire and make passionate love to it.

 

[ChrisL]

 

[spud_meister]

I think Pearl Jam was a massive influence on Nirvana, and did a much better job at making grunge music.

 

[Moot]

I looooved Kurt Cobain. Still do. I couldn't believe it when he died. So sad and such a loss.

He joined the 27 club.

 

[PoS]

Although Cobain and Nirvana didnt invent a new form of rock (grunge, punk and alternative had existed prior to them), they were able to popularize a formerly obscure genre of punk and brought it to the mainstream- prior to Nirvana there was only heavy hair metal (Bon Jovi, Guns and Roses and (ugh) Poison) and pop music plus rap and it was a pretty desolate music scene- the alternative rock before Nirvana became big were mostly refugees from the New Wave 80's movement and British rock- and they were becoming stale, Nirvana infused a new way of approaching heavy metal with a more poetic and intelligent style.

 

[Superfly]

I think Pearl Jam was a massive influence on Nirvana, and did a much better job at making grunge music.

never was a fan of Cobain, but loved Pearl Jam. Honestly, I've never seen an album that I liked every single track on the album, with the exception of Ten.

 

[Redress]

Although Cobain and Nirvana didnt invent a new form of rock (grunge, punk and alternative had existed prior to them), they were able to popularize a formerly obscure genre of punk and brought it to the mainstream- prior to Nirvana there was only heavy hair metal (Bon Jovi, Guns and Roses and (ugh) Poison) and pop music plus rap and it was a pretty desolate music scene- the alternative rock before Nirvana became big were mostly refugees from the New Wave 80's movement and British rock- and they were becoming stale, Nirvana infused a new way of approaching heavy metal with a more poetic and intelligent style.

Just about everything in this post is not accurate. What Nirvana did was take the Seattle sound(which was not really grunge at that point, nor actually exclusive to Seattle), add pop hooks and lyrics, and made a bunch of money. Priuor to Nirvana there was simply a ton of music and styles, even within the pop mainstream. In the indie scene, there where new genres of music(grindcore, doom, sludge just within the metal scene, the later having it's roots in the same scene Nirvana came out of). Nirvana was not metal in any way imaginable, it was pop. All Nirvana did was add a pop sound to an existing style of music.

 

[spud_meister]

never was a fan of Cobain, but loved Pearl Jam. Honestly, I've never seen an album that I liked every single track on the album, with the exception of Ten.

My post was trolling. Pearl Jam is good, but they extended the pop influence in grunge too far. The most awesome grunge band was Soundgarden.

 

[PoS]

Just about everything in this post is not accurate. What Nirvana did was take the Seattle sound(which was not really grunge at that point, nor actually exclusive to Seattle), add pop hooks and lyrics, and made a bunch of money. Priuor to Nirvana there was simply a ton of music and styles, even within the pop mainstream. In the indie scene, there where new genres of music(grindcore, doom, sludge just within the metal scene, the later having it's roots in the same scene Nirvana came out of). Nirvana was not metal in any way imaginable, it was pop. All Nirvana did was add a pop sound to an existing style of music.

No. Nirvana never made pop music, they were a punk band that hit it big and crossed the charts into pop territory. Go watch the documentaries The Year Punk Broke or Dancing in the Streets, they make light of that. The term intelligent heavy metal was coined by one of the members of Sonic Youth when asked to describe what grunge was.

 

[Jetboogieman]

I've always been a huge Nirvana fan and for me... I think Kurt Cobain at the end of it all was just a dude who made some very fine music and that's what he'll be remembered for.

 

[ChrisL]

No. Nirvana never made pop music, they were a punk band that hit it big and crossed the charts into pop territory. Go watch the documentaries The Year Punk Broke or Dancing in the Streets, they make light of that. The term intelligent heavy metal was coined by one of the members of Sonic Youth when asked to describe what grunge was.

Don't mind him. He thinks he's like the most knowledgeable about music or something. :roll:

 

[Gardener]

I suppose people could always argue about how many angels could dance on the head of a pin, instead.

Unlike some of the pompous individuals who consider themselves experts, I'm old enough to have actually participated in the original punk scene in the mid/late 70s, and one of the defining characteristics of punk was attitude. It wasn't simply chops. In those days, if people came out of the punk scene they were considered punk,and all manner of bands that we might not view as punk through the lens of what has transpired since were considered punk then. Blondie,Television,Talking Heads, Elvils Costello and others were seen as punk in those days because of attitude and scene, not because of their individual sound. It didn't all HAVE to sound like Black Flag or Flipper to be punk.

In terms of attitude and scene, Nirvanna can be considered punk,especially in their early years. In terms of HOW to classify them, is categorizing them in the same genre as Lady Gaga or Miley Cyrus REALLY more accurate than categorizing them in the same genre as the Ramones? Sure,doing so may serve the ego needs of those with a desperate need to inflate their importance,but at the end of the day music is music, all music is influenced by other music, our own need to categorize doesn't mean a hill of beans and the only thing that should matter is whether or not it speaks to us in some way.

 

[ChrisL]

I suppose people could always argue about how many angels could dance on the head of a pin, instead.

Unlike some of the pompous individuals who consider themselves experts, I'm old enough to have actually participated in the original punk scene in the mid/late 70s, and one of the defining characteristics of punk was attitude. It wasn't simply chops. In those days, if people came out of the punk scene they were considered punk,and all manner of bands that we might not view as punk through the lens of what has transpired since were considered punk then. Blondie,Television,Talking Heads, Elvils Costello and others were seen as punk in those days because of attitude and scene, not because of their individual sound. It didn't all HAVE to sound like Black Flag or Flipper to be punk.

In terms of attitude and scene, Nirvanna can be considered punk,especially in their early years. In terms of HOW to classify them, is categorizing them in the same genre as Lady Gaga or Miley Cyrus REALLY more accurate than categorizing them in the same genre as the Ramones? Sure,doing so may serve the ego needs of those with a desperate need to inflate their importance,but at the end of the day music is music, all music is influenced by other music, our own need to categorize doesn't mean a hill of beans and the only thing that should matter is whether or not it speaks to us in some way.

Totally agree. I don't think Nirvana was the best band ever, but they were decent, and I like quite a few of their songs.