The Holocaust Was The Jews Fault

[Gandhi>Bush]

The UN General Assembly approved the 1947 UN Partition Plan dividing the territory into two states, Jewish and Arab, giving about half the land area to each state. Jerusalem was planned to be an international region administered by the UN to avoid conflict over its status.

Immediately following the adoption of the Partition Plan by the UN General Assembly (on November 29, 1947), the Palestinian Arab leadership rejected the plan and launched a guerilla war that included attacks on Jewish civilians. The Irgun Tsvai Leumi retaliated with attacks on Arab civilians.

The surrounding Arab states supported the Palestinian Arabs in rejecting both the Partition Plan and the establishment of Israel, and the armies of six Arab nations attacked the newly formed State of Israel. Over the next 15 months, Israelis captured and annexed an additional 26% of the Mandate territory west of the Jordan river. Most of the Arab population fled or were expelled during the war. The continuing conflict between Israel and the Arab world resulted in a lasting displacement that persists to this day.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel

The only wrong here was Palistinian Arabs refusing to share and they lost in the end. What's amazing is that if Arabs did not resort to animalistic behaviors, all would have been just fine and Israel would not have been on a quest for survival for the last 55 years. And now the bleeding hearts want Israel to "correct a wrong.":roll:

PERSISTS TO THIS DAY. I don't understand what's so complicated. Palestinian children grow up hearing from their grandfather's about their home, about the men with guns, about the Jews that live in their home, about the great white west and UN that put them there. Put yourself in the situation. Would you accept it? Could you accept it?

What happened to these people was wrong. Their response was wrong. If we don't try to correct something, it's just going to stagnate for another half of a century.

Here's a twisted cure....."shove "Palestine" into the ocean once and for all and rid the holy land of them." Oh wait...Only Arabs and Persians can get away with saying such things towards Jews. The double standard lies in bigotry. Europe's anti-semitism is very much alive today as it was fifty years ago, though they lack any military power or willingness to act on such things. Why would the "Global Left" care what they say about Jews? Now let Israel say something and its all we would hear about....."how evil and wrong they are for "antagonizing" Muslims in such a manner."

Ahmadinejad caught alot of heat for his comments, just like everyone else who makes shitty comments to the global community.

The key thing you typed is "in the early days." Those days are gone. Today, we are left with a civilization that stagnated in those early days. It's not so much a problem that Europe split the lands up to suit their needs. Because of their self-inflicted failures, fundamentalism has risen into radicalism on a grand scale. Much of the Arab world has withdrawn into a fortress of intolerance and self-righteousness as psychologically comfortable as it is practically destructive. Our age happens to be a losing era for Islam, when its functionality as a mundane organizing tool has decayed in much of the world—just as European Christianity had done by the beginning of the 16th century. Radicalism just doesn't go away and it is intolerant of others. Blame is the narcotic of choice. To extremists, it doesn't matter who is to blame, just so as the blame is removed from the "believers" shoulders. These radicals fuel Palestinian actions with cheers and "support." Palestinians very much adhere to the Radical preachings that "Allah," according to the Qu'ran, prohibits the tolerance of other religions. The terrorists may believe that they're good Muslims — self-awareness is not a widespread human trait — but their deeds are those of the pagans Mohammed condemned. There is a great perversion going on in the world of Islam and expecting Palestinians to share land with anybody is impossible in their current state of mind. Because they refuse to roll up their sleeves, they are, through their own fault, as close to hopeless as any societies and cultures upon this earth. Their only solution is to blame others and destroy for their "God."

I think the example was proof enough that Muslims can co-exist with others. Radicals, certainly, are a different story, but a Radical anything can't co-exist with others.

 

[George_Washington]

Can you define what "I am a member of the Roman Catholic Church", means ?
Can you define what being a Catholic in the religious sense means ?

Well, Robin, I will but all I ask is that you try to have an open mind towards it. The religious sense, being a Roman Catholic means you are affiliated with the Church in Rome, instead of the Greek or Russian Orthodox Churches. I guess what separates us from Protestants is that we have sacraments. Protestants believe that you must accept Christ by praying in a sort of way, whereas we accept Christ and his covenant through the Eucharist. We are the oldest and largest Christian Church in the world. Our first Pope was Peter himself. I guess one of the other things that separates us from Protestants is that we believe in the concept of Purgatory. And of course we have Saints.

Did I answer your question or was there something else you're trying to get at? If you dislike something about the Roman Church, just come out with it. You won't offend me.

 

[jamesrage]

I never said it was the Jew's fault. I'm saying they did nothing to stop it.

That is the equavilent of saying it was their fault.

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

That is the equavilent of saying it was their fault.

Spin it how you want. The Nazis perpatrated the Holocaust, not the Jews.

 

[jamesrage]

Spin it how you want. The Nazis perpatrated the Holocaust, not the Jews.

BUt you said the jews did nothing to stop it.That is like saying it is the store clerk should not have not worked at the gas station if he did not want to be shot,which such a statement suggest it was the store clerks fault for working at the gas station.

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

BUt you said the jews did nothing to stop it.That is like saying it is the store clerk should not have not worked at the gas station if he did not want to be shot,which such a statement suggest it was the store clerks fault for working at the gas station.

Umm... No...

The Jews being in Germany isn't the reason the holocaust happened. The Holocaust happened because of the Nazis.

America did nothing to stop Rwanda. Was that our fault? I certainly don't think so.

 

[jamesrage]

Umm... No...

The Jews being in Germany isn't the reason the holocaust happened. The Holocaust happened because of the Nazis.

America did nothing to stop Rwanda. Was that our fault? I certainly don't think so.

Are you going to suggest that the Rwandan victims did nothing to stop their slaughter?

 

[George_Washington]

Religion is everywhere in America... from churches, synagogues, and mosques to the coinage in your pocket. From the daily Pledge of Allegience to invocations before each Congressional session. From the swearing-in ceremony of each United States president to sporting events.

I have no problems with religion Mr. Gandhi, as long as it is not forcibly shoved down my throat. I admire the higher-tenets of the great religions, and I believe that religio-stricture does not necessarily infringe on personal freedoms. Indeed, a good preponderance of mankind's moral aspirations find their genesis in religious scripture.

This is kind of off the subject...but I like your views on religion, Tashah. You seem to be much more tolerant towards religion than some of the other people on here. I don't know whether you'd agree with me on this or not but I feel that religion nowadays is met with descrimination both here and abroad. I guess it's always been that way to a point but I hate it when people try to say that science is the only thing that matters and religion is completely bogus. I realize that religion is very present here in America as you said. But then again, I feel kind of a minority in being a Christian in America in the face of, you know, "intellectuals" who want to demonize it. I actually think a lot of intolerance towards Jews and Christians comes from agnostics and atheists, more so than many people would want to believe. I have friends who are academics like yourself who either have Phd's or are working towards them. They have told me about how they've encountered intolerance from people who are, you know, atheist or agnostic.

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

Are you going to suggest that the Rwandan victims did nothing to stop their slaughter?

Honestly, I don't know enough about the situation to make such a comment. Africa's history something I am completely ignorant of.

 

[jamesrage]

Honestly, I don't know enough about the situation to make such a comment. Africa's history something I am completely ignorant of.

So you can sit there and say the Jews did nothing to stop the Holocaust,but you have no opinion on the Rwandan victims?

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

So you can sit there and say the Jews did nothing to stop the Holocaust,but you have no opinion on the Rwandan victims?

We're taught about WW2 in the first grade. I have an arguably, relatively decent idea of what lead up to and happened during the holocaust. I can't at all say the same thing about Rwanda; however, it may be possible to say the same thing in that case as well. The fact is: I don't know.

 

[FreeThinker]

Honestly G>B you should stop responding to this thread. The more you bump it the more people see it. The more people see it, the more people think you are anti-semitic (or at the very least ignorant of history).

People that try to :spin: the holocaust always end up losing. Not enough time has passed since WWII for you liberals to rewrite history yet.

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

Honestly G>B you should stop responding to this thread. The more you bump it the more people see it. The more people see it, the more people think you are anti-semitic (or at the very least ignorant of history).

People that try to :spin: the holocaust always end up losing. Not enough time has passed since WWII for you liberals to rewrite history yet.

Proove that I'm anti-semetic.

 

[jamesrage]

Proove that I'm anti-semetic.

You made the suggestionsthat the Jews did nothing to stop the Holocaust.

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

You made the suggestionsthat the Jews did nothing to stop the Holocaust.

How exactly is that anti-semitical?

 

[jamesrage]

How exactly is that anti-semitical?

Describe to us how the Jews did nothing to stop the Holocaust and "We're taught about WW2 in the first grade" is not a answer on how you came to that conclusion that the Jews did nothing to stop the Holocaust.Perhaps me and the pother posters misinerpreted your comment about how the Jews did nothing to stop the Holocaust.

 

[Picaro]

BUt you said the jews did nothing to stop it.That is like saying it is the store clerk should not have not worked at the gas station if he did not want to be shot,which such a statement suggest it was the store clerks fault for working at the gas station.

Good point.

There were only some 2 or 3 hundred thousand Jews in Nazi Germany; they were disarmed, as most other Germans were after WW I. Their houses and livlihoods largely destroyed from 1932 onwards, and no help was forth-coming from anywhere, certainly not the U.S., England, or any other 'civilized' country.

As it were, there were Jewish Underground cells that operated all through WW II, providing intelligence to to the Allies, conducting assassinations and sabotage, in fact most of what the Allies knew about the Warsaw Ghetto uprising and concentration camp atrocities came from the Jewish Underground and the Polish Underground during the war. Most of the Jewish victims of the Operation Reinhard death camps and Auschwitz came from Warsaw and Poland, where Russian pogroms had forced most Eastern European Jews to settle, referred to as 'Beyond the Pale', the Pale being what is now largely Poland, hence the millions of Jews there.

Millions tried to get their families out during the 1930's, but the U.S. and England severely restricted Jewish immigration; some of the richer were able to buy their way out, but most were left to die or chattel slavery.

 

[Picaro]

Describe to us how the Jews did nothing to stop the Holocaust and "We're taught about WW2 in the first grade"is not a answer on how you came to that conclusion that the Jews did nothing to stop the Holocaust.Perhaps me and the pother posters misinerpreted your comment about how the Jews did nothing to stop the Holocaust.

No education at all is better than a ridiculously bad one; it's certainly far less dangerous to society, in any case, as a bad one tends to wipe out basic common sense.

 

[Gardener]

Honestly G>B you should stop responding to this thread. The more you bump it the more people see it. The more people see it, the more people think you are anti-semitic (or at the very least ignorant of history).

People that try to :spin: the holocaust always end up losing. Not enough time has passed since WWII for you liberals to rewrite history yet.

I certainly agree with you as to most of your statement, but I might point out that such attitudes do not actually represent liberal ideology. Now, I knmow many peopel may espouse such views while calling themself liberal, and I will gladly acknowlege that there are plenty of antesemitic people in the antiwar movement, or among authoritarian leftists and neomarxists, but these are really the more extreme portion of the left and not real liberals. When it comes to Jews and Israel, some people are so far left that they have looped all the way around and are joining hands with folks who have approached the same position from the right. I've been posting at a board that is comprised of people from the left to the extreme left and the extremists think holocaust revisionist Pat Buchanan is just the cat's meaow. The divide at that board is between the liberals and the leftists.

A correlary from the other "side" might be if people didn't distinguish between the views of George Will and, say, Fred Phelps.

If you said "leftist", I probably wouldn't quibble, but I really don't think views like these are representative of liberals.

 

[DivineComedy]

Why not both change?

If obvious BIGOTS would stop trying to “right the wrong of 1947,” as if there was a wrong, and the idolaters (see the Hamas Charter) stopped having mentally ill conversations with rocks and trees, then BIGOTS and hypocrites (see the Hamas Charter) would realize that a people were legally allowed to move to the region for the express purpose of a national home for the Jewish people, and therefore, they had a right of self-determination in 1947, then the BIGOTS and hypocrites would be in compliance with the law:

“Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgement of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force;”

As soon as the BIGOTS and hypocrites drop their claims, “To right the wrong of 1947,” and topics like this do not exist, we will be much closer to achieving peace for our children.

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

Describe to us how the Jews did nothing to stop the Holocaust and "We're taught about WW2 in the first grade" is not a answer on how you came to that conclusion that the Jews did nothing to stop the Holocaust.Perhaps me and the pother posters misinerpreted your comment about how the Jews did nothing to stop the Holocaust.

It was my understanding that the first real resistance wasn't until the 1943 Warsaw Ghetto Uprising. My position was that said resistance was too little, too late.

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

If obvious BIGOTS would stop trying to “right the wrong of 1947,” as if there was a wrong, and the idolaters (see the Hamas Charter) stopped having mentally ill conversations with rocks and trees, then BIGOTS and hypocrites (see the Hamas Charter) would realize that a people were legally allowed to move to the region for the express purpose of a national home for the Jewish people, and therefore, they had a right of self-determination in 1947, then the BIGOTS and hypocrites would be in compliance with the law:

Hundreds of thousands displaced and kicked out of their homes, and you say there was no wrong?

“Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgement of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force;”

As soon as the BIGOTS and hypocrites drop their claims, “To right the wrong of 1947,” and topics like this do not exist, we will be much closer to achieving peace for our children.

As soon as you stop acting like you are the absolute good and you enemy the absolute evil, we will be much closer to achieving peace for our children.

 

[Tashah]

Most of the Jewish victims of the Operation Reinhard death camps and Auschwitz came from Warsaw and Poland, where Russian pogroms had forced most Eastern European Jews to settle, referred to as 'Beyond the Pale', the Pale being what is now largely Poland, hence the millions of Jews there.

Jews living in czarist Russia were restricted to living in the western districts (Ukraine, Byelorussia etc.). This area of Russia was officially referred to as the Jewish 'Pale of Settlement'. Due to persistent Russian persecution and deadly pogroms, many Jews fled westward into Poland, Lithuania, and the Baltic states. These Jews were then said to be living 'Beyond the Pale'.

Millions tried to get their families out during the 1930's, but the U.S. and England severely restricted Jewish immigration; some of the richer were able to buy their way out, but most were left to die or chattel slavery.

England accepted many thousands of Jewish children, but not their parents. This is a cruelty beyond words. To their shame, the United States, Canada, and virtually every European nation severely curtailed Jewish immigration when it was virtually the only available escape from the Third Reich.

 

[jamesrage]

It was my understanding that the first real resistance wasn't until the 1943 Warsaw Ghetto Uprising. My position was that said resistance was too little, too late.

I think it is too easy to play connect the dots long after events have happened because we were not there with full knowledge of how every thing is going to happen and how any alternative would change events.

 

[Tashah]

As soon as you stop acting like you are the absolute good and you enemy the absolute evil, we will be much closer to achieving peace for our children.

And when the pacifists, appeasers, and apologists begin to speak out against Islamic terrorism, the closer we will be to achieving peace. Not only for our children... but for children everywhere.