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The Holocaust Was The Jews Fault

FreeThinker

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Gandhi>Bush said:
If the Jews had taken to nonviolence, I believe they would have succeeded. They did nothing. No violence, no nonviolence, just obedience. The Warsaw uprising was far too late to do much of anything. At the first in justice they should started. As soon as someone said the word "ghetto" out loud, that's when action needed to be taken. Certainly not sitting on your ass until 1941.
Thats right ladies and gentlemen! You heard it right from the mouth of Ghadi himself!!!! It was the Jews own inaction that caused 6 million of them to be beaten to death, gassed, burned alive, shot, stabbed, burried alive, and starved to death!

Wow! All those years of hearing about how the holocaust was Hilter's fault were wrong! All those pictures of German soldiers throwing babies up against walls to kill them in front of their mothers were photoshopped! Amazing!

I am glad Mr. Gandhi was here to enlighten me on the true history of World War II.
 

Engimo

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Yeah, I don't think that civil disobedience would have helped the Jews out too much - it just would have guaranteed that they would have been shot on the spot.
 

Gandhi>Bush

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I'll make the same deal with everyone else that I made with this individual. If you can find where I blamed the holocaust on the Jews, I'll email you my scrotum. That was the deal, and its still on the table.

I never said it was the Jew's fault. I'm saying they did nothing to stop it.

If you feel that that is a historical inaccuracy, correct me. Do that, and I'll retract my statement.
 

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Fu*k that, and fu*k you.
 

Gandhi>Bush

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vergiss said:
Fu*k that, and fu*k you.
Profanity is not going to prove me wrong. Prove me wrong: that's all I'm asking that you do. I know this is a sensitve topic. I can understand how what I've said can be called insensitve. What I can't understand is why no one thus far has PROVEN ME WRONG or even so much as made an attempt.

Prove me wrong, or leave me alone. This is absolutely ridiculous. I'm not an anti-semite or a racist. Anyone who matters on this forum knows that.

Prove me wrong.
 

vergiss

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Oh, and what would you have done?
 

Gandhi>Bush

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vergiss said:
Oh, and what would you have done?
I like to think I would have done something. Even if it is as simple as not moving to the ghettos, as not walking in the gutter at the request of a hatemonger. Even if it as simple as giving my life so that I may hold on to my obedience, I like to think I would have done something, but I like to think that I would not have been the lap dog that they would call me to be.

I would like to think I would have organized. I like to think I would have resisted in some fashion. Even if it was a violent fashion, but there wasn't. There wasn't any resistance at all. Not until the Warsaw Ghetto uprising was there any resistance.
 

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Hundreds of thousands fled overseas and many others went into hiding. Exactly how they could've overthrown the entire German army when even the Allies were having trouble doing it is beyond me, but I'd love to hear your ideas. To claim their wasn't any resistance is utter ignorance.

As for why they'd rather go into the ghettoes than be shot for refusing? I shouldn't need to answer - it's because they wanted to live. I'd rather die trying to survive than give up like a coward. Ignoring a psychopath with a machine gun generally is not a wise decision if you want to remain alive.
 

Gandhi>Bush

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vergiss said:
Hundreds of thousands fled overseas and many others went into hiding. Exactly how they could've overthrown the entire German army when even the Allies were having trouble doing it is beyond me, but I'd love to hear your ideas.
The Allies were not inside Germany. The Allies had little if any nonviolent access to the German people.

To claim their wasn't any resistance is utter ignorance.
There it is again. I cannot find this resistance, but perhaps google is just as ignorant as I am.

As for why they'd rather go into the ghettoes than be shot for refusing? I shouldn't need to answer - it's because they wanted to live. I'd rather die trying to survive than give up like a coward. Ignoring a psychopath with a machine gun generally is not a wise decision if you want to remain alive.
I'd rather die like a man than live like a slave.

The most valuable asset against a government- any government- is it's people. Segregation takes away access to that asset. Resistance and atrocity must be witnessed by the German people. Propaganda makes it easy to hate someone. Truth and clarity make it difficult. When a man who you are told is evil kneels in a street to pray and is shot in the back of his head because he refused to relocate to a slum, it will change you. If nonviolence must be reduced to martyrdom, it is certainly prepared for such a thing.
 

vergiss

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Gandhi>Bush said:
The Allies were not inside Germany. The Allies had little if any nonviolent access to the German people.
Who said anything about non-violence? Non-violence wouldn
't have worked against rabid psychopaths hell-bent on exterminating a race, regardless if the resistance had direct access to the German people. Cute idea, but so idealistic even a teenager like myself isn't going to fall for it.

Gandhi>Bush said:
There it is again. I cannot find this resistance, but perhaps google is just as ignorant as I am.
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/article.php?lang=en&ModuleId=10005213

http://library.thinkquest.org/12307/resistance.html

Gandhi>Bush said:
I'd rather die like a man than live like a slave.
:roll: The death of the Jews is exactly what the Nazis wanted - way to go at giving them their wish. If all the Jews had done what you say, there would have been no survivors and the Jewish people would be all but exterminated. Nice.

Gandhi>Bush said:
The most valuable asset against a government- any government- is it's people. Segregation takes away access to that asset. Resistance and atrocity must be witnessed by the German people. Propaganda makes it easy to hate someone. Truth and clarity make it difficult. When a man who you are told is evil kneels in a street to pray and is shot in the back of his head because he refused to relocate to a slum, it will change you. If nonviolence must be reduced to martyrdom, it is certainly prepared for such a thing.
Again, cute, but utterly useless. If they had no compassion for the co-workers and neighbours they saw suffering, why would they care about seeing a stranger die like a coward?

Personally, I'd choose living with the faith that things will eventually get better than giving up and being shot like an animal. By surviving, you win.
 

Gandhi>Bush

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vergiss said:
Who said anything about non-violence? Non-violence wouldn't have worked against rabid psychopaths hell-bent on exterminating a race, regardless if the resistance had direct access to the German people. Cute idea, but so idealistic even a teenager like myself isn't going to fall for it.
Ethnic Germans. That's the target. If the Jews could rally their sympathies, their compassion, then they could win.

Fanatacism does not equate to psycopathy.

As Ideaslist as it may be, its the right thing to do.

Warsaw Ghetto Uprising 1943. You're kidding me right?

:roll: The death of the Jews is exactly what the Nazis wanted - way to go at giving them their wish. If all the Jews had done what you say, there would have been no survivors and the Jewish people would be all but exterminated. Nice.
First of all, there's no way to know that. I truly believe that the German populace could have been rallied to defeat Hitler. All they needed was to be woken up.

Again, cute, but utterly useless. If they had no compassion for the co-workers and neighbours they saw suffering, why would they care about seeing a stranger die like a coward?
You think the entire German population was devoid of sympathy and compassion?

It is cowardly to bend to the will of a man because of fear. "Yes, sir: I will walk in the gutter. Yes, sir: I will relocate to the ghettos. Yes, sir: I will board the train. Yes, sir: I will get in the showers." You call that survival? Living everyday in fear, praying for an escape or a rescue? You keep nodding your head like that and one day it will fall off.

Personally, I'd choose living with the faith that things will eventually get better than giving up and being shot like an animal. By surviving, you win.
If survival means slavery, count me out.
 

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Gandhi>Bush said:
I'll make the same deal with everyone else that I made with this individual. If you can find where I blamed the holocaust on the Jews, I'll email you my scrotum. That was the deal, and its still on the table.

I never said it was the Jew's fault. I'm saying they did nothing to stop it.

If you feel that that is a historical inaccuracy, correct me. Do that, and I'll retract my statement.
What in the hell where they suppose to do? They were no match for Hitler and his army. They were conned into the camps. I don't see how so many men could have worked in those camps without a conscience. It amazes me how mean people can be.
 

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Look Ghandi, one quote from the master himself.

"I do not consider Hitler to be as bad as he is depicted. He is showing an ability that is amazing and seems to be gaining his victories without much bloodshed."

That is no wonder he thinks the Jews should have just taken it, because Hitler wasn't that bad after all. I suppose you think we should have never overthrown the British either?
 

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Gandhi>Bush said:
I'll make the same deal with everyone else that I made with this individual. If you can find where I blamed the holocaust on the Jews, I'll email you my scrotum. That was the deal, and its still on the table.

I never said it was the Jew's fault. I'm saying they did nothing to stop it.

If you feel that that is a historical inaccuracy, correct me. Do that, and I'll retract my statement.
I don't think you are saying it's the Jew's fault, but why the question in the first place, seems odd. The question should be why did the German people kill 6 million plus Jews?
 

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Axismaster said:
Look Ghandi, one quote from the master himself.

"I do not consider Hitler to be as bad as he is depicted. He is showing an ability that is amazing and seems to be gaining his victories without much bloodshed."

That is no wonder he thinks the Jews should have just taken it, because Hitler wasn't that bad after all. I suppose you think we should have never overthrown the British either?
I smell troll
 

Gandhi>Bush

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Axismaster said:
Look Ghandi, one quote from the master himself.

"I do not consider Hitler to be as bad as he is depicted. He is showing an ability that is amazing and seems to be gaining his victories without much bloodshed."

That is no wonder he thinks the Jews should have just taken it, because Hitler wasn't that bad after all.
That is not what Gandhi believed. He believed they should have taken to nonviolence. Read his letter called Zionism and Anti-Semitism. There you will see what he believed.

I suppose you think we should have never overthrown the British either?
With violence, no.
 

Gandhi>Bush

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realist said:
I don't think you are saying it's the Jew's fault, but why the question in the first place, seems odd. The question should be why did the German people kill 6 million plus Jews?
I did not ask such a question. I made a statement and was attacked. I have asked to be proven wrong.
 

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Gandhi>Bush said:
I did not ask such a question. I made a statement and was attacked. I have asked to be proven wrong.
And you were.
 

Tashah

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In another thread Gandhi, I advanced numerous book titles to you that thoroughly explained the Holocaust. These were all authored by World War II and Holocaust historians. Much like David Irving, you obviously chose not to avail yourself of this academic information. Although you are not a Holocaust denier, you are indeed a Holocaust revisionist.
 

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vergiss said:
And you were.
In another thread, I acknowledged the 1943 warsaw ghetto uprising. That's far too late. Even America had taken action before the Jews did.
 

Gandhi>Bush

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Tashah said:
In another thread Gandhi, I advanced numerous book titles to you that thoroughly explained the Holocaust. These were all authored by World War II and Holocaust historians. Much like David Irving, you obviously chose not to avail yourself of this academic information. Although you are not a Holocaust denier, you are indeed a Holocaust revisionist.
Correct me. I do not own these books. You do. Please enlighten my feeble, anti-semetic, nazi sympathising mind.
 

Tashah

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Gandhi>Bush said:
Correct me. I do not own these books. You do. Please enlighten my feeble, anti-semetic, nazi sympathising mind.
Your words in bold, not mine. Scroll up. I said you are a Holocaust revisionist. I would suggest that you transport your 'feeble' mind to the nearest public library. There is a rather large section devoted to the Holocaust. It's free... you don't have to purchase anything. I would further suggest that you begin your 'enlightenment' with Lucy Dawidowitz, Raul Hilberg, and Martin Gilbert. After that initial introduction, you can peruse the memoirs. Also, The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum and Yad Vashem have excellent historical and academic materials online. Perhaps you should first study a subject in depth before you deign to critique and revise it.
 

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Ever thought about this... For every four Nazis operating the gas ovens & crematorium in Auchvitz, there were 96 Sonderkommando Jews.
Of course any Sonderkommando Jew that refused to do the work would be shot or beatent to death. However the same applies to the average Nazi. Any German not obeying orders could be court marshalled & ultimately shot.
On this basis... the Jews are as guilty of the holocaust as the average German... reason is, because they did nearly all the killing work in the death camps & both they & the Germans were under threat of death if they didn't.
Funny old world isn't it... or is my logic missing a link somewhere.
I've got it... I think.. only the senior Nazis are guilty of the holocaust.
It does surprise me though how people will participate in murder, of their own people even, just to save their own necks. Such is the 'will to live' I guess. In that situation I'd like to think I'd rather do myself in than help the Nazis kill millions, but you never know unless you are in that situation I guess.
 
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Gandhi>Bush

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Tashah said:
Your words in bold, not mine. Scroll up. I said you are a Holocaust revisionist. I would suggest that you transport your 'feeble' mind to the nearest public library. There is a rather large section devoted to the Holocaust. It's free... you don't have to purchase anything. I would further suggest that you begin your 'enlightenment' with Lucy Dawidowitz, Raul Hilberg, and Martin Gilbert. After that initial introduction, you can peruse the memoirs. Also, The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum and Yad Vashem have excellent historical and academic materials online. Perhaps you should first study a subject in depth before you deign to critique and revise it.
I said that the Jews did nothing to resist the holocaust until 1943, which was FAR too late to do anything violent, nonviolent, liberal-Jew-Media-laser guns, or otherwise.

That position was twisted and contorted until one particular individual proclaims that I believe that the Jews CAUSED the holocaust. I never said that.

From that point, no one has made the slightest attempt, other than vergiss, to prove me wrong. vergiss refered me to links that contained information the Warsaw uprising (1943), the escape from Sobibor and another particularly interesting story about the smuggling in of a machine gun, piece by piece. That's all fine and good, but I think that all of this "resistance" happened far too late to do anything to the Nazi movement.

I'm asking you to cite something, anything, that suggests a formidable resistance to the Nazis.

All this bullshit about calling me a racist, a bigot, a revisionist, is just that: bullshit.

Prove me wrong. Prove me wrong or back off.
 
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