Texas Department of Public Safety confiscates jars of feces from pro-abortion protest

[Henrin]

Re: Texas Department of Public Safety confiscates jars of feces from pro-abortion pro

Natural rights are a fallacy that don't exist. The entire concept was created by folks who were inflexible in their thinking and tried to simplify complex concepts such as human nature, psychology, and sociology. There are no "natural human rights". Rights are nothing but social constructs that are determined by society at the time.

Sad. People that believe their lives and their liberty are the permission of others are extremely depressing. Of course, since the foundation of our rights is based on natural rights your entire argument is neither here nor there. In fact, the origin of the word "human rights" is essentially..well.

It's also a really weird concept to say we are going to create rights to protect you from the masses and put that power in the hands of an organization that has historically killed more people than any other. There is no great conflict in logic that I can think of than that off hand. If you have no idea if their declarations are of any merit you might as well be a chicken without a head.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

Re: Texas Department of Public Safety confiscates jars of feces from pro-abortion pro

“Every 36 seconds in America a woman lays her body down forced to choose abortion out of a lack of practical resources and emotional support. Abortion is a reflection that society has failed women.”
(Patricia Heaton, honorary chair of Feminists for Life)

Your little talking head has a faulty understanding of why women abort.

To be sure, that is probably why some women abort. But then I must ask you, as a self-proclaimed conservative, whether you think the state ought to provide endlessly for reproduction the woman or couple can't afford.

But for plenty of women, resources have NOTHING to do with it. Perhaps they have other goals in life they'd like to achieve before being anchored to the home. Perhaps they would prefer to have a suitable partner, and presently, they don't. Perhaps they don't want children at all for whatever their reasons are, from ethical to personal.

There are as many reasons why women abort as their are women who have aborted.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Re: Texas Department of Public Safety confiscates jars of feces from pro-abortion pro

Sad. People that believe their lives and their liberty are the permission of others are extremely depressing. Of course, since the foundation of our rights is based on natural rights your entire argument is neither here nor there. In fact, the origin of the word "human rights" is essentially..well.

It's also a really weird concept to say we are going to create rights to protect you from the masses and put that power in the hands of an organization that has historically killed more people than any other. There is no great conflict in logic that I can think of than that off hand. If you have no idea if their declarations are of any merit you might as well be a chicken without a head.

I wish I had bet someone that this post would garner a response from you, Henrin. I would have won the bet. Your entire argument is based on a false premise. That natural rights exist. "Natural rights" aren't "natural" at all. They are man-made. I find it sad that anyone would believe that humans have so little free will that their lives are managed by some made up concept... a concept created partially to create controls on humans. I always love the silly counter-argument: "well, if people create different rights, all it means is that they are violating 'natural' rights". It takes the false premise and creates an entire silly argument around it. It's like building a house when there is no foundation at all.

 

[Henrin]

Re: Texas Department of Public Safety confiscates jars of feces from pro-abortion pro

I wish I had bet someone that this post would garner a response from you, Henrin. I would have won the bet. Your entire argument is based on a false premise. That natural rights exist. "Natural rights" aren't "natural" at all. They are man-made. I find it sad that anyone would believe that humans have so little free will that their lives are managed by some made up concept... a concept created partially to create controls on humans. I always love the silly counter-argument: "well, if people create different rights, all it means is that they are violating 'natural' rights". It takes the false premise and creates an entire silly argument around it. It's like building a house when there is no foundation at all.

Yes, your superiority complex is pathetic. I suspect this act is only a result from a lack of self confidence.

All natural rights are contrived from the sovereignty over one's own body, and extend to everything in which that body acts upon. This gives birth to such rights as speech, religion, assembly, property and of course life.

The reality of rights in this country is that the first job of the government according to the DOI and what must happen for a US government to be legitimate is the protection of the individual's innate rights against government transgression. Be that coming from the federal government or state or local governments.

This so called concept as you call it is built on the backbone of liberty that is an indisputable fact of the world and in no way shape or form restricts or governs my free will, but in fact simply protects my right to liberty and promotes free will.

If you have a problem with having to work from something to control and use government to maintain your liberty than there is nothing to say to you. You're simply a fool that hasn't learned from history and believes your life should be up to the will of your fellow man.

and for the hell of it some quotes.

"Among the natural rights of the colonists are these: First a right to life, secondly to liberty, and thirdly to property; together with the right to defend them in the best manner they can." - Samuel Adams

A right to property is founded in our natural wants, in the means with which we are endowed to satisfy these wants, and the right to what we acquire by those means without violating the similar rights of other sensible beings." - Thomas Jefferson


"All men are created equally free and independent, and have certain inherent rights, of which they cannot, by any compact, deprive or divest their posterity; among which are the enjoyment of life and liberty, with the means of acquiring and possessing property, and pursuing the obtaining of happiness and safety." -George Mason

“No power on earth has a right to take our property from us without our consent.” - John Jay

 

[minnie616]

Re: Texas Department of Public Safety confiscates jars of feces from pro-abortion pro

?..

All natural rights are contrived from the sovereignty over one's own body, and extend to everything in which that body acts upon. This gives birth to such rights as speech, religion, assembly, property and of course life....

In that case you should agree that a woman should have sovereignty over her body and that would include the right to privacy regarding reproductivity, which includes birth control and abortion.

 

[nota bene]

Re: Texas Department of Public Safety confiscates jars of feces from pro-abortion pro

Your little talking head has a faulty understanding of why women abort.

To be sure, that is probably why some women abort. But then I must ask you, as a self-proclaimed conservative, whether you think the state ought to provide endlessly for reproduction the woman or couple can't afford.

But for plenty of women, resources have NOTHING to do with it. Perhaps they have other goals in life they'd like to achieve before being anchored to the home. Perhaps they would prefer to have a suitable partner, and presently, they don't. Perhaps they don't want children at all for whatever their reasons are, from ethical to personal.

There are as many reasons why women abort as their are women who have aborted.

Your last statement is a silly exaggeration given that there are millions of women who have had abortions. There aren't millions of reasons. In fact, the reasons for abortion identified/categorized by the Guttmacher Institute number 31. And your first statement, that Patricia Heaton has a "faulty understanding" is mistaken as well. Lack of resources and lack of emotional support are among the major reasons women abort. http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3711005.pdf

 

[JayDubya]

Re: Texas Department of Public Safety confiscates jars of feces from pro-abortion pro

Natural rights are a fallacy that don't exist. The entire concept was created by folks who were inflexible in their thinking and tried to simplify complex concepts such as human nature, psychology, and sociology. There are no "natural human rights". Rights are nothing but social constructs that are determined by society at the time.

Uh-huh. :roll:

Must be nice having no logical basis to criticize what are commonly characterized as human rights abuses when they didn't occur to legal persons. By your model, American slaves weren't wronged, Jews in the holocaust weren't wronged, and the unborn aren't being wronged now, all because the law says they are less than human and have no rights. The courts and legislature saw fit to make it so. They almost always do. Make your undesirables non-persons and then wipe them out or abuse them as you see fit...

Yeah, no. I'm a human being - my right to life is natural and unalienable. It has been mine since the first moment my parents created me. My government has the job, the duty, to protect that right. If it doesn't do so, we the people have the responsibility, the duty, to fix it. That is what we have government for.

Governments do not give rights. Your argument is one of ridiculous levels of statism, to think that the government gives rights rather than protects what is innate is unconscionable.

 

[minnie616]

Re: Texas Department of Public Safety confiscates jars of feces from pro-abortion pro

Your last statement is a silly exaggeration given that there are millions of women who have had abortions. There aren't millions of reasons. In fact, the reasons for abortion identified/categorized by the Guttmacher Institute number 31. ...http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3711005.pdf

They are the reasons given out of a printed list.
Also most women check more than one reason because the reasons are many for most women.

 

[sangha]

Re: Texas Department of Public Safety confiscates jars of feces from pro-abortion pro

Your last statement is a silly exaggeration given that there are millions of women who have had abortions. There aren't millions of reasons. In fact, the reasons for abortion identified/categorized by the Guttmacher Institute number 31. And your first statement, that Patricia Heaton has a "faulty understanding" is mistaken as well. Lack of resources and lack of emotional support are among the major reasons women abort. http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3711005.pdf

The study, which reports that women have various and multiple reasons for havin an abortion, does more to support S&M's claim than it does to support the post she was responding to.

Sure, one can categorize the reasons, but just because they fall in the same categories doesn't mean that they are the same exact reason

 

[minnie616]

Re: Texas Department of Public Safety confiscates jars of feces from pro-abortion pro

nota your link says 4 out of 10 women said they had completed child bearing.
I think that 40 percent is a pretty significant percentage of women and it has nothing to do with a lack of resources or emotional support.

Also almost one third ( a bit more than 30 percent ) said they were not ready to have a child.

 

[Scrabaholic]

Re: Texas Department of Public Safety confiscates jars of feces from pro-abortion pro

As I mentioned in another thread one should not assume that the protesters wanted to throw the jars of feces

If they were going to throw them that would be very stupid. I would not assume they would throw them.

18 jars were found and we do not know If 18 people brought one jar each or 1 or 2 people brought them.( more likely )
How does anyone know they planned to throw them? Perhaps they were going to put them into a pile , jar s intact and tell the Texas Congress that the bill they were passing was a pile of c--p just like the pile of jars they brought.

Excellent points, Minnie! :applaud

 

[Scrabaholic]

Re: Texas Department of Public Safety confiscates jars of feces from pro-abortion pro

I guess I would not be too surprised.
The tampon and pad raid really was stupid on the part of the troopers.
Most woman do carry a couple of pads or tampons with them .

I know I did back in the day.....especially when it was near 'that time' just in case it started when I was out. And when I was in the midst of it, I needed to carry them to change when I needed to. Confiscating them was just plain nuts.

 

[Scrabaholic]

Re: Texas Department of Public Safety confiscates jars of feces from pro-abortion pro

I wonder what the tip the DPS received which motivated them to search protesters' bags was.

But in my opinion, collecting feces in containers for whatever purpose--yes, yes, dung has been used as an "artistic" medium--is more than a little weird.

I can't believe anybody sane could do other than acknowledge how bizarre doing this was, how it certainly doesn't represent the vast majority of pro-choicers, and then move on. The fact that some posting in this thread are actually defending this is weird.

BTW, I can certainly see how, in theory, someone who has "temper management issues" could become so angry that he or she ripped off the colostomy bag and flung it at somebody. But collecting feces and carrying them into the state capitol building? It's weird.

Who here is defending it?

 

[HelplessHoping]

Re: Texas Department of Public Safety confiscates jars of feces from pro-abortion pro

If you support the slaughter of the innocents, I don,t expect you would understand.

Ohh I see. Well I separate my personal religious beliefs from the law. I neither support or condemn abortion. I support personal private choice. We can have a discussion about that if you wish, but without the religious aspect because that too... is personal.

 

[HelplessHoping]

Re: Texas Department of Public Safety confiscates jars of feces from pro-abortion pro

Your little talking head has a faulty understanding of why women abort.

But for plenty of women, resources have NOTHING to do with it. Perhaps they have other goals in life they'd like to achieve before being anchored to the home. Perhaps they would prefer to have a suitable partner, and presently, they don't. Perhaps they don't want children at all for whatever their reasons are, from ethical to personal.

Here is where I have a problem with abortion...We all know how babies are made. I cannot bring myself to support the choice to abort simply because a person could not be bothered to prevent the pregnancy to begin with, especially when the adult already KNOWS they aren't ready to be a parent. Then again, I understand that sometimes birth control fails (except for abstinence). Personal responsibility is a HUGE part of my world view though and that often leaves me in a difficult position when considering law.

Thus why I prefer to consider the whole issue personal and private. A law allowing abortion ONLY if it conforms to MY personal ideas of right and wrong is, in itself, wrong and does not allow for the unpredictable situation.

Limiting abortion to a specific number of weeks is also a tricky area for me. In my first pregnancy, I did not even know I was pregnant until I was 5 months along and within a week of finding out, I slid from preeclamptic into eclampsia. So a 20 week limitation would have limited my options had I considered abortion.

 

[HelplessHoping]

Re: Texas Department of Public Safety confiscates jars of feces from pro-abortion pro

As I mentioned in another thread one should not assume that the protesters wanted to throw the jars of feces

If they were going to throw them that would be very stupid. I would not assume they would throw them.

18 jars were found and we do not know If 18 people brought one jar each or 1 or 2 people brought them.( more likely )
How does anyone know they planned to throw them? Perhaps they were going to put them into a pile , jar s intact and tell the Texas Congress that the bill they were passing was a pile of c--p just like the pile of jars they brought.

I have learned to never assume what actions any demonstrator would or would not take. The fact is, they were carrying jars of potentially dangerous biological contaminants. I support the confiscation of the feces etc in jars. Some people have no ability or willingness to regulate their behavior. Especially within an emotionally charged situation. Saftey of the public health comes first in my opinion.

 

[AGENT J]

Re: Texas Department of Public Safety confiscates jars of feces from pro-abortion pro

View attachment 67150248

and you expect to get the publics support by using your children holding up signs like that? what are you thinking?

To pro-aborts, unborn children are just lifeless clumps of cells, devoid of any humanity. Children who make it past childbirth, on the other hand, are the perfect tools to peddle their twisted agenda.

LMAO thats funny, not quite as good as the hoes before embryos sign but funny.
Ill say the same thing about this as i did the other post

http://www.debatepolitics.com/abort...why-left-left-dana-loesch.html#post1062007584

Im sorry but i find this absolutely hilarious "hoes before embryos" LMAO

now while i dont find abortion hilarious its this stuff that is the PERFECT example of how mentally insane the debate has become, how intellectually dishonest and full of inane hyperbolic rhetoric it is instead of anything productive.

Hail Satan vs amazing grace
whores/hoes/sluts immoral evil doers vs responsible moral virgins practicing abstinence and all that is good

its nonsensical hyper-partisan debate that many people(BOTH SIDES) just do extreme stuff because they know it drives the otherside crazy, even the dishonesty and lies in the article are nonsensical.

ANyway its impossible for me to take this serious when people are acting like that.
Abortion is a real issue and a serious one but few treat it that way. Im even guilty of it sometimes. While id never say hail satan here on a message board i do find it entertaining that facts and reality can send people off in to such an emotional meltdown.

yep cut and past is all that is need and the nonsense in the the OP is just another example of exactly what im talking about

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

Re: Texas Department of Public Safety confiscates jars of feces from pro-abortion pro

Your last statement is a silly exaggeration given that there are millions of women who have had abortions. There aren't millions of reasons. In fact, the reasons for abortion identified/categorized by the Guttmacher Institute number 31. And your first statement, that Patricia Heaton has a "faulty understanding" is mistaken as well. Lack of resources and lack of emotional support are among the major reasons women abort. http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3711005.pdf

Yeah, because I'm sure Guttmacher quoted them precisely rather than just, ya know, boiling it down into a bunch of basic reasons to make things easier on themselves. :roll:

It seems to me that Heaton has never in her life talked to a woman about why she aborted.

Well, according to your own link, the top reason women give is "having a baby would significantly change my life." More specifically, that it would get in the way of schooling and career goals. "Resources" is a DISTANT second, and even most of those sub-reasons don't really have to do with resources themselves, but rather her unwillingness to give them up, and reduce her quality of life: having to move, or leave work, or delay school, etc.

These aren't desperate sad-sacks neglected by society who didn't know adoption existed. These are women with goals who recognize that having a child at the wrong time often destroys ones chance of attaining them.

ETA: By the way, you never answered my question about whether you think the government should support endless reproduction.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

Re: Texas Department of Public Safety confiscates jars of feces from pro-abortion pro

Here is where I have a problem with abortion...We all know how babies are made. I cannot bring myself to support the choice to abort simply because a person could not be bothered to prevent the pregnancy to begin with, especially when the adult already KNOWS they aren't ready to be a parent. Then again, I understand that sometimes birth control fails (except for abstinence). Personal responsibility is a HUGE part of my world view though and that often leaves me in a difficult position when considering law.

Thus why I prefer to consider the whole issue personal and private. A law allowing abortion ONLY if it conforms to MY personal ideas of right and wrong is, in itself, wrong and does not allow for the unpredictable situation.

Limiting abortion to a specific number of weeks is also a tricky area for me. In my first pregnancy, I did not even know I was pregnant until I was 5 months along and within a week of finding out, I slid from preeclamptic into eclampsia. So a 20 week limitation would have limited my options had I considered abortion.

We all know driving subjects you to accidents, yet we don't blame the victim if they get hit by a drunk.

For some reason, the anti-choice posit that women ought to endure suffering and non-consensual uses of their body when it comes to pregnancy, when in EVERY OTHER situation, she would have the rights to it.

You also have a completely false impression of women who abort, based on the villain cartoon drawing the anti-choice have presented. Most women who abort were using some kind of birth control. Often not correctly, but perhaps we should stop lying to teenagers in school if we want that problem to go away.

Aborting IS taking personal responsibility. It just isn't how you would make her do it if it were up to you. But that's the thing about personal responsibility: it's personal. This goes both ways. :shrug:

 

[HelplessHoping]

Re: Texas Department of Public Safety confiscates jars of feces from pro-abortion pro

We all know driving subjects you to accidents, yet we don't blame the victim if they get hit by a drunk.

You also have a completely false impression of women who abort, based on the villain cartoon drawing the anti-choice have presented.

Aborting IS taking personal responsibility. It just isn't how you would make her do it if it were up to you. But that's the thing about personal responsibility: it's personal. This goes both ways. :shrug:

Guess you assumed that I actually pay attention to "facts" that are promoted by anti choice sources. Do you actually assume that is how other people develop personal opinions? Women who abort, do so for numerous and various reasons. I do not see anyone who makes the choice to abort as a villain regardless of her reason and I really would love to see how you came to that conclusion.

I do not judge, because as I said, it is a PERSONAL issue. That means to me that I have no place in judging the person OR THE CHOICE.

I don't want to make anyone do anything based on MY personal beliefs or opinions. I would rather an abortion law be fair, considerate and well thought out.

Wow :golf :shock:

 

[WCH]

Re: Texas Department of Public Safety confiscates jars of feces from pro-abortion pro

I wish I had bet someone that this post would garner a response from you, Henrin. I would have won the bet. Your entire argument is based on a false premise. That natural rights exist. "Natural rights" aren't "natural" at all. They are man-made. I find it sad that anyone would believe that humans have so little free will that their lives are managed by some made up concept... a concept created partially to create controls on humans. I always love the silly counter-argument: "well, if people create different rights, all it means is that they are violating 'natural' rights". It takes the false premise and creates an entire silly argument around it. It's like building a house when there is no foundation at all.

Wait! Who declares natural rights' if not humans?

Where did humans get the notion of natural rights....from God.

You saying God's word is a false premise?

Yes, God gave humans free will but, man had to apply laws and morals to keep us [what we now consider] civilized.

 

[WCH]

Re: Texas Department of Public Safety confiscates jars of feces from pro-abortion pro

I have learned to never assume what actions any demonstrator would or would not take. The fact is, they were carrying jars of potentially dangerous biological contaminants. I support the confiscation of the feces etc in jars. Some people have no ability or willingness to regulate their behavior. Especially within an emotionally charged situation. Saftey of the public health comes first in my opinion.

The interview I heard from the head of Capitol DPS said, (not verbatim) "It's one thing to throw feces on other protesters, it another thing to to throw it on Legislators but, when it could ruin those rare artifacts [which may not be repairable} we have to act accordingly"

BTW: sorry if I insulted you earlier, fellow Texan.

 

[HelplessHoping]

Re: Texas Department of Public Safety confiscates jars of feces from pro-abortion pro

The interview I heard from the head of Capitol DPS said, (not verbatim) "It's one thing to throw feces on other protesters, it another thing to to throw it on Legislators but, when it could ruin those rare artifacts [which may not be repairable} we have to act accordingly"

BTW: sorry if I insulted you earlier, fellow Texan.

Gotta love law officers that decide to swallow the foot rather than just chew on it a bit... There is always one. Artifacts... phffft That officer needs to review his priority decisions. LOL

I am not really sure what you are refering to that would have insulted me. I am almost impossible to insult. I do not take personally what is said on a message board. Thank you for the consideration though!

 

[WCH]

Re: Texas Department of Public Safety confiscates jars of feces from pro-abortion pro

Gotta love law officers that decide to swallow the foot rather than just chew on it a bit... There is always one. Artifacts... phffft That officer needs to review his priority decisions. LOL

I am not really sure what you are refering to that would have insulted me. I am almost impossible to insult. I do not take personally what is said on a message board. Thank you for the consideration though!

There are some very rare and valuable artifact in the Capitol but, you are quite right about the 'BS'. :2razz:

Glad I didn't insult you.

 

[Henrin]

Re: Texas Department of Public Safety confiscates jars of feces from pro-abortion pro

In that case you should agree that a woman should have sovereignty over her body and that would include the right to privacy regarding reproductivity,

I have no problem with that.

abortion.

This is another matter. This implies that the right to body sovereignty permits the violation of another beings body sovereignty.