Texas Considers Posting Ten Commandments in Public Schools

[jaypatriot]

Well, let's just look at Iran and Indonesia. They're pious as hell.

Good for them. They're both Muslim countries, so what?

 

[Gordy327]

Our American society is BASED ON Judeo-Christian principles which are, in turn, based on the Ten Commandments and the Holy Bible.
NOT THE KORAN!
Tough noogies if you don't like our heritage.

Still false! Repeating that nonsense doesn't make it true no matter how much you want to believe it.

 

[jaypatriot]

Still false! Repeating that nonsense doesn't make it true no matter how much you want to believe it.

I asked my own personal chatGPT OpenAI algorithm and this is what it told me:


Is america based on Judeo-Christian principles?

The United States of America has been influenced by a range of cultural, religious, and philosophical traditions. While Judeo-Christian principles have played a significant role in shaping American society and culture, the nation's founding documents, such as the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, do not explicitly refer to any specific religion or religious tradition.
That said, many of the values and principles that are central to American society, such as individual freedom, democracy, and the rule of law, have roots in Judeo-Christian thought. For example, the idea of equality, which is enshrined in the Declaration of Independence, can be traced back to the biblical notion that all people are created in the image of God. Similarly, the concept of natural law, which was influential in the drafting of the Constitution, has its roots in the works of Christian theologians and philosophers.
So while it is true that Judeo-Christian principles have had a significant impact on American culture and values, the country is not exclusively based on those principles. The United States is a pluralistic society that is home to people of many different religious and philosophical backgrounds, and its founding documents reflect a commitment to religious freedom and the separation of church and state.

 

[Gordy327]

I asked my own personal chatGPT OpenAI algorithm and this is what it told me:


Is america based on Judeo-Christian principles?

The United States of America has been influenced by a range of cultural, religious, and philosophical traditions. While Judeo-Christian principles have played a significant role in shaping American society and culture, the nation's founding documents, such as the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, do not explicitly refer to any specific religion or religious tradition.
That said, many of the values and principles that are central to American society, such as individual freedom, democracy, and the rule of law, have roots in Judeo-Christian thought. For example, the idea of equality, which is enshrined in the Declaration of Independence, can be traced back to the biblical notion that all people are created in the image of God. Similarly, the concept of natural law, which was influential in the drafting of the Constitution, has its roots in the works of Christian theologians and philosophers.
So while it is true that Judeo-Christian principles have had a significant impact on American culture and values, the country is not exclusively based on those principles. The United States is a pluralistic society that is home to people of many different religious and philosophical backgrounds, and its founding documents reflect a commitment to religious freedom and the separation of church and state.

The Constitution and Founding Fathers told me America is not based on religious ideology. So your religious apologetic nonsense is still wrong!

 

[bomberfox]

I support access to elective abortion and same-sex marriage. Am I conservative? If not, I don't know why you brought up conservatives.
I'm honest enough to admit that yeah, trans people kinda trigger me a bit. To masquerade as something you're not is one thing but to insist that I join in the masquerade is quite different.

You are quite likely to not be effected.

 

[Galactic Spin]

Jordan Peterson has an amazing if long-winded lecture series on the bible from a non-religious clinical psychologist's point of view. In his first lecture, he deconstructs religion from a top-down god-first view into a bottom-up humans-thinking-about-things view. The commandments were Moses's attempt to bring a basic level of order to an otherwise lawless population. Bringing up the commandments today is a very humanist attempt to reassert a basic level of order when our overcomplicated legal system seems to be failing.

Which is obviously very dumb. Like, painfully dumb.

 

[ColdHardTruth]

Our American society is BASED ON Judeo-Christian principles which are, in turn, based on the Ten Commandments and the Holy Bible.
NOT THE KORAN!
Tough noogies if you don't like our heritage.

WRONG.

American society is NOT BASED IN ANY WAY on Christianity. Nor is the government. The founding fathers made this perfectly clear.

To reaffirm America’s not becoming a Christian nation, Congress and all the states added the First Amendment to the Constitution in 1791, reiterating the nation’s areligious character by barring government establishment of any and all religion.

U.S. Treaty No. 122, "The Treaty of Tripoli," Clause 11  As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion,- as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen…it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries. (This treaty was negotiated under George Washington's Administration; President John Adams, Second U.S. President, submitted it to the U.S. Senate; the 5th U.S. Congress unanimously ratified the treaty; and President Adams signed it on June 5, 1797).

 

[Gordy327]

WRONG.

American society is NOT BASED IN ANY WAY on Christianity. Nor is the government. The founding fathers made this perfectly clear.

To reaffirm America’s not becoming a Christian nation, Congress and all the states added the First Amendment to the Constitution in 1791, reiterating the nation’s areligious character by barring government establishment of any and all religion.

U.S. Treaty No. 122, "The Treaty of Tripoli," Clause 11  As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion,- as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen…it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries. (This treaty was negotiated under George Washington's Administration; President John Adams, Second U.S. President, submitted it to the U.S. Senate; the 5th U.S. Congress unanimously ratified the treaty; and President Adams signed it on June 5, 1797).

It should be noted the Treaty of Tripoli was unanimously passed, which was quite uncommon at the time.

 

[Peter]

You don't read much American history do you?
America became great in the late 19th and early 20th century. It's founding was based on Judeo-Christian beliefs. People were religious and went to church. "Great"means economically and militarily powerful.
You did go to school and study American history, right?

The main thing that made America great was not being in a huge pile of rubble after WW2.
It's a whole lot beasier to make loads of cash when you are supplying most of the stuff needed to help rebuild a shattered Europe and Japan.
That alone created millions of good US jobs.

 

[Lursa]

Our American society is BASED ON Judeo-Christian principles which are, in turn, based on the Ten Commandments and the Holy Bible.
NOT THE KORAN!

So what? Even some of the FFs didnt want that acknowledged in our laws and so they specifically wrote it into the First Amendment.

In schools with kids from all religions and none...why should one religion specifically be up in their faces? That's what parents are for, what churches are for...why should our schools be promoting ANY religious values? Again...our Const and nation was specifically set up NOT to.

Tough noogies if you don't like our heritage.

And that's exactly the message it sends to our children...who's heritage is from all over the world...just more exclusion, 'we're better than you', and the rest of that crap that encourages bullying and discrimination. Why do you want that in our schools?

 

[Galactic Spin]

Tough noogies if you don't like our heritage.

*Except for the nasty bits the right wing won't allow to be taught in schools, of course.

Irony meter: broken

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Make that the 9 Commandments for Texas. Can't have a "Thou shalt not kill" commandment while they're trying to arm everyone....

“Thou shalt not kill” is not one of the Ten Commandments

 

[EMNofSeattle]

So what? Even some of the FFs didnt want that acknowledged in our laws and so they specifically wrote it into the First Amendment.

In schools with kids from all religions and none...why should one religion specifically be up in their faces? That's what parents are for, what churches are for...why should our schools be promoting ANY religious values? Again...our Const and nation was specifically set up NOT to.

No, our constitution was not set up to impose state atheism, this is a lie imposed on Americans undemocratically without their consent in the 1960s by a variety of embittered communists and left activists

And that's exactly the message it sends to our children...who's heritage is from all over the world...just more exclusion, 'we're better than you', and the rest of that crap that encourages bullying and discrimination. Why do you want that in our schools?

what’s wrong with that? we seriously need to pretend that children from asiatic backgrounds don’t already believe cultural chauvinism about their own background? Why should the culture of heritage Americans take a back seat to accommodate new comers from the most ethnocentric places on earth?

 

[Lursa]

No, our constitution was not set up to impose state atheism, this is a lie imposed on Americans undemocratically without their consent in the 1960s by a variety of embittered communists and left activists

Never wrote that it was. It was to not impose religious beliefs on anyone and not allow others to impose religious beliefs on individuals.

So...you are wrong as usual.

what’s wrong with that? we seriously need to pretend that children from asiatic backgrounds don’t already believe cultural chauvinism about their own background? Why should the culture of heritage Americans take a back seat to accommodate new comers from the most ethnocentric places on earth?

Why should newcomers be forced to stare at selective beliefs that other choose? Why should anything state-run promote selective beliefs to any citizen? Religious beliefs are available to all at home and in religious organizations. They arent hidden or impuned or punished. The state, thru the Const however, is not involved in promoting any one over another...it was specifically set up that way. This country was built on and welcomed that diversity (you didnt, I know and also deny credit to other cultures, so what, you're always wrong) and a country is stronger based on inclusion, not minimizing and disenfranchising its demographics...that's a negative impact overall, in a country built on equality and individuality.

You long for superiority which you can not earn and so imagine you gain it thru exclusivity...sorry...in America, that should be earned by merit, not ideology and not a violent, coercive, repressive, misogynistic, avaricious religion that's consumed you.

aaaaannndddd/scene

 

[jaypatriot]

“Thou shalt not kill” is not one of the Ten Commandments

You don't agree that the 6th Commandment is
"Thou shalt not kill"?

 

[jaypatriot]

So what? Even some of the FFs didnt want that acknowledged in our laws and so they specifically wrote it into the First Amendment.

In schools with kids from all religions and none...why should one religion specifically be up in their faces? That's what parents are for, what churches are for...why should our schools be promoting ANY religious values? Again...our Const and nation was specifically set up NOT to.



And that's exactly the message it sends to our children...who's heritage is from all over the world...just more exclusion, 'we're better than you', and the rest of that crap that encourages bullying and discrimination. Why do you want that in our schools?

I would like every child in school to know what the Ten Commandments are not because it will make them religious converts, but because they are simply good rules to follow.
I don't really care that much about the first four.
But the last six are important for every one.
And if you don't think these rules are good for everyone, then I wouldn't want you for my neighbor.

• Honor your father and your mother.

• You shall not murder.

• You shall not commit adultery.

• You shall not steal.

• You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

• You shall not covet.

 

[jaypatriot]

The main thing that made America great was not being in a huge pile of rubble after WW2.
It's a whole lot beasier to make loads of cash when you are supplying most of the stuff needed to help rebuild a shattered Europe and Japan.
That alone created millions of good US jobs.

That was not the main thing that made us great.
It was our industrial might leading up to WW II that gave the British and the Russians the materials they needed to defeat the Nazis.
Yours is a cynical view of our country that tells me you do not have a good opinion of our great nation. And in some of these threads your attitude toward America is shared by a lot of other posters.
That, to me, is disturbing.

 

[Arlette]

Just imagine overlaying those commandments with how their new lord & master (Trump) lives his life. I don't get how they can rationalize the hypocrisy of saying they support both the commandments and Trump??

They don't. They support Trump. Evangelicals are Trump's biggest supporters

 

[Arlette]

As long as they are not promoting it as the one true religion I believe they are fine to have them in schools. Freedom of religion was to protect people from being forced to worship who the state tells you to. I.dont believe the intent was ever to exclude all references to a God in government places.

FTR I am a unappologetic atheist and I have no problem with it.

I do however agree that "in God we trust" is inappropriate and it should be removed from the pledge.

It's Texas. Figure it out

 

[Arlette]

No one is forcing you to believe in anything.
You can reject any supreme being you want. No one cares.
If we followed the messages in the Ten Commandments we would be a lot better off as a society.
The country became great under Judeo-Christian beliefs.

America became great because we were the only industrialized nation left standing after WWII, like by default.

 

[jaypatriot]

WRONG.

American society is NOT BASED IN ANY WAY on Christianity. Nor is the government. The founding fathers made this perfectly clear.

To reaffirm America’s not becoming a Christian nation, Congress and all the states added the First Amendment to the Constitution in 1791, reiterating the nation’s areligious character by barring government establishment of any and all religion.

U.S. Treaty No. 122, "The Treaty of Tripoli," Clause 11  As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion,- as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen…it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries. (This treaty was negotiated under George Washington's Administration; President John Adams, Second U.S. President, submitted it to the U.S. Senate; the 5th U.S. Congress unanimously ratified the treaty; and President Adams signed it on June 5, 1797).

You are cold, hard, and creating your own brand of truth.
You would make a good wiccan or the head of an atheist cult.
Did you argue against including 'under God' in the pledge of allegiance?

Was America founded as a Christian nation?​

By Mark Edwards, Special to CNN
10:22 AM EDT, Sat July 4, 2015
Demographically speaking, America certainly resembled a “nation of Christians” at the time of its founding and has ever since. But it’s a rather different proposition to claim that the founders established the new American government as a “Christian nation.” Clearly, they did not.
To be sure, the Declaration of Independence appealed to “the laws of Nature and Nature’s God” and asserted that all men had basic rights “endowed by their Creator.” But the Constitution – the document that actually enumerated and enshrined those rights – lacked even those vaguely drawn references to a deity.

​

https://www.cnn.com/2015/07/02/living/america-christian-nation/index.html

 

[Arlette]

I support access to elective abortion and same-sex marriage. Am I conservative? If not, I don't know why you brought up conservatives.
I'm honest enough to admit that yeah, trans people kinda trigger me a bit. To masquerade as something you're not is one thing but to insist that I join in the masquerade is quite different.

Them trans are kinda like Christians that way, don't you think?

 

[Arlette]

You don't read much American history do you?
America became great in the late 19th and early 20th century. It's founding was based on Judeo-Christian beliefs. People were religious and went to church. "Great"means economically and militarily powerful.
You did go to school and study American history, right?

It wasn't great for Christians back then, unless you were a white Christian

 

[Lursa]

I would like every child in school to know what the Ten Commandments are not because it will make them religious converts, but because they are simply good rules to follow.
I don't really care that much about the first four.
But the last six are important for every one.
And if you don't think these rules are good for everyone, then I wouldn't want you for my neighbor.

• Honor your father and your mother.

• You shall not murder.

• You shall not commit adultery.

• You shall not steal.

• You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

• You shall not covet.

I dont give a crap about being your neighbor and it's certainly not only Christians that have good moral character. I see a shitload of "Christians" that dont come close to upholding the commandments.

I never said they werent good...but they're not the only way people learn this stuff and it's not the school's place to promote this or teach it...it's up to parents. And their religion if they want.

This is about the law and the intent of the Constitution...and that's not for the govt or govt sponsored organizations to push any religion on anyone. Maybe you'd know this if your school had spent more time on civics and less on commandments

See next post.

 

[Lursa]

I would like every child in school to know what the Ten Commandments are not because it will make them religious converts, but because they are simply good rules to follow.
I don't really care that much about the first four.
But the last six are important for every one.
And if you don't think these rules are good for everyone, then I wouldn't want you for my neighbor.

• Honor your father and your mother.

• You shall not murder.

• You shall not commit adultery.

• You shall not steal.

• You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

• You shall not covet.

You blew off the Islamic hadiths I suggested...what if a group of Muslim parents wanted to put those up next to the commandments...ok with you? If not, why not? To them, they think those are what people should follow. Here they are again:

A woman's testimony counts half of a man's testimony. The Quran in Sura 2:282 says: And let two men from among you bear witness to all such documents [contracts of loans without interest]. But if two men be not available, there should be one man and two women to bear witness so that if one of the women forgets (anything), the other may remind her. (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 205).​

--and--

The Quran in Sura 4:3 says: And if you be apprehensive that you will not be able to do justice to the orphans, you may marry two or three or four women whom you choose. But if you apprehend that you might not be able to do justice to them, then marry only one wife, or marry those who have fallen in your possession. (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 305)​

--and--

Husbands may hit their wives even if the husbands merely fear highhandedness in their wives (quite apart from whether they actually are highhanded). The Quran in Sura 4:34 says: 4:34 . . . If you fear highhandedness from your wives, remind them [of the teaching of God], then ignore them when you go to bed, then hit them. If they obey you, you have no right to act against them. God is most high and great. (Haleem, emphasis added)​

--and--

Mature men are allowed to marry prepubescent girls. The Quran in Sura 65:1, 4 says: 65:1 O Prophet, when you [and the believers] divorce women, divorce them for their prescribed waiting—period and count the waiting—period accurately . . . 4 And if you are in doubt about those of your women who have despaired of menstruation, (you should know that) their waiting period is three months, and the same applies to those who have not menstruated as yet. As for pregnant women, their period ends when they have delivered their burden. (Maududi, vol. 5, pp. 599 and 617, emphasis added)​