Tea party hurting GOP chances in the fall?

[BWG]

a point on that one. the democrat in that race ran as an anti-abortion, pro-gun, anti-Obamacare candidate. if conservatism of the type marked by the tea parties is going to hurt the GOP so much, why is the one major Democratic victory story largely a play to it?

Pennsylvania's 12th Congressional District is a conservative district, a district that voted for John McCain in 2008. Mark Critz won handily with 53 percent of the vote over the 45 percent of the conservative candidate, Tim Burns.

Mark Critz will mostly be voting with Democrats on a whole range of issues, where Tim Burns would have been a no vote.

It was John Murtha's seat. Here's how Murtha stacks up on the issues you bring up:

Rated 0% by NARAL, indicating a pro-life voting record.

Rated A+ by the NRA, indicating a pro-gun rights voting record.

The Patient Protection & Affordable Care Act has already passed.

It was a seat in a conservative district that many thought was in the bag for the Republicans in their push to regain control of Congress.

 

[NolaMan]

....must explain why any party leader that has said anything negative about Rush since Obama took office, including statements similar to this, is apologizing and lauding him within 24 hours. Now you are saying Rush is not the boss. This might be a good time for you to get down on your knees and practice your best humble apology.

They distance themselves because, like it or not, Rush has a large following that goes out and votes. (typically Republican) It serves a politician no good to get into a fight with a talk show personality, when the only outcome from such a scenario is alienating your potential voters.

It is not like Rush dictates policy to anyone actually in office, therefore the claim that he is somehow involved in the leadership of the party is off-base in my opinion.

 

[Groucho]

When you start calling Bob Bennett and Charlie Crist RINO's you have tacked too far to the right. If the Repubs had chased the middle of the roaders instead of the far right, they might actually have a shot at the house this year. Rush has led the party astray.

Exactly. The GOP chased Crist out of the party because he's a moderate, and now he's ahead in the polls -- because he's a moderate.

 

[NolaMan]

Exactly. The GOP chased Crist out of the party because he's a moderate, and now he's ahead in the polls -- because he's a moderate.

The poll I saw had him and Rubio within the margin of error. I do think that it is telling however that the Democrat is really getting very little support. I do think you can't really overlook that Crist enjoys a lot of support just due to name recognition etc, which will play a big role for him.

All of that said, I recall reading somewhere (couldn't pinpoint where) that roughly 25% or more of Florida voters remain undecided, which means the race can still go either way.

 

[Groucho]

The poll I saw had him and Rubio within the margin of error. I do think that it is telling however that the Democrat is really getting very little support. I do think you can't really overlook that Crist enjoys a lot of support just due to name recognition etc, which will play a big role for him.

All of that said, I recall reading somewhere (couldn't pinpoint where) that roughly 25% or more of Florida voters remain undecided, which means the race can still go either way.

True enough, and one possibility is that the GOP ends up splitting its vote between Crist and Rubio and then the Democrat gets elected, like what happened in that NY congressional special election.

 

[Dav]

Rush is not the leader, per se, but he is the spiritual leader of the party, so who are you trying to kid?

Rush may not be the actual party leader, but don't kid yourself. Rush is the de facto spokesperson for the Republican party.

He is a radio show host, nothing more. He speaks for nobody but himself, and for nobody's opinions but his own. That he has a large following is irrelevant. If he said something that his listeners disagreed with, his listeners would not suddenly change their minds just because he said so. He does not have that kind of influence.

Exactly. The GOP chased Crist out of the party because he's a moderate, and now he's ahead in the polls -- because he's a moderate.

Both of these statements are incorrect. The GOP chased him out because he is a big-spender and a sleazy opportunist with no principles other than his own career advancement. He's ahead in SOME polls, for the time being, because he's taking a lot of votes from the Democratic candidate, who many Democrats realize isn't going to win.

 

[LiberalAvenger]

He is a radio show host, nothing more. He speaks for nobody but himself, and for nobody's opinions but his own. That he has a large following is irrelevant. If he said something that his listeners disagreed with, his listeners would not suddenly change their minds just because he said so. He does not have that kind of influence.

He does too, methinks.

 

[Groucho]

Both of these statements are incorrect. The GOP chased him out because he is a big-spender and a sleazy opportunist with no principles other than his own career advancement. He's ahead in SOME polls, for the time being, because he's taking a lot of votes from the Democratic candidate, who many Democrats realize isn't going to win.

But that supports my point! He's probably going to win -- that's what it's ALL about. That's the point. By reaching to the middle, he's grabbing votes away from the GOP and the Democrat.

Having great ideology and never winning means you get nothing done. It's always better to get 50% of what you want than 0%.

The Tea Party insistence on purity means that it will appeal to a small segment but will never get a majority. To win a majority, you MUST make compromises and aim for the middle.

 

[Dav]

But that supports my point! He's probably going to win -- that's what it's ALL about. That's the point. By reaching to the middle, he's grabbing votes away from the GOP and the Democrat.

Having great ideology and never winning means you get nothing done. It's always better to get 50% of what you want than 0%.

The Tea Party insistence on purity means that it will appeal to a small segment but will never get a majority. To win a majority, you MUST make compromises and aim for the middle.

Will Crist probably win? Nate Silver (a liberal) isn't so sure: FiveThirtyEight: Politics Done Right: Rubio's Path Easiest, Crist's Challenging, in Potential Three-Way Race

Anyways, if the Tea Party had such an "insistence on purity", they wouldn't have backed Scott Brown, a moderate. So they can compromise. They just want candidates to be as much in line with their views as possible and still able to win. They want a majority, but they don't want the same majority the GOP had 2001-2006; they know how that turned out. Maybe candidates that stick to their principles will have a harder time winning in the short run, but the logic is (IMO), it'll help prevent them from falling again in the long run.

 

[ADK_Forever]

Rush is not the leader, per se, but he is the spiritual leader of the party, so who are you trying to kid?

For someone who the right claims is "not" their leader,
they have an awful hard time standing up to him. :2wave:

 

[LiberalAvenger]

Will Crist probably win? Nate Silver (a liberal) isn't so sure: FiveThirtyEight: Politics Done Right: Rubio's Path Easiest, Crist's Challenging, in Potential Three-Way Race

Anyways, if the Tea Party had such an "insistence on purity", they wouldn't have backed Scott Brown, a moderate. So they can compromise. They just want candidates to be as much in line with their views as possible and still able to win. They want a majority, but they don't want the same majority the GOP had 2001-2006; they know how that turned out. Maybe candidates that stick to their principles will have a harder time winning in the short run, but the logic is (IMO), it'll help prevent them from falling again in the long run.

Scott Brown fooled them. There is talk among the tea potty to get rid of him nowl

 

[the makeout hobo]

I didn't know he was anti-minimum wage, but it would be great if he really is; we need more politicians with enough balls to admit that it's a stupid policy. He's definitely not anti-civil rights and anti-any-government, though. Come back when you're ready to be intellectually honest.

Rand Paul has openly spoken about how he thought the Civil Rights Act may have been a bad idea. If that's not anti-civil rights, I don't know what is.

 

[NolaMan]

Scott Brown fooled them. There is talk among the tea potty to get rid of him nowl

The fact that you seem incapable of treating your fellow Americans with any form of respect for expressing their views (ie, "tea potty") speaks volumes about your personal character.

 

[the makeout hobo]

The fact that you seem incapable of treating your fellow Americans with any form of respect for expressing their views (ie, "tea potty") speaks volumes about your personal character.

You are right. Both the Tea Party and its detractors need to be a lot more civil

 

[Fiddytree]

It will help GOP chances in the fall. Whether that translates to the above-all-be-all national candidate is another matter entirely (with my own personal view being that it will not be a good idea). Nationally, what matters is if the Tea Party can continue to move towards concrete a political platform, and whether or not the GOP can successfully overcome the internal disagreements and unify under a platform that even mainstream Tea Party supporters can back. If they do that, having a Tea Party-branded or influenced GOP can be a winning item for the Republican Party.

 

[NolaMan]

You are right. Both the Tea Party and its detractors need to be a lot more civil

I agree....

 

[Fiddytree]

For someone who the right claims is "not" their leader,
they have an awful hard time standing up to him. :2wave:

He has power as a public face, but liberals would love to exaggerate his power to being the leader, which is ridiculous. It was the mistake of Steele's to back down as much as he did rhetorically, when he did little to actually back down (because Rush has little power).

It became a big story when it was substantively nothing more than superficial political yammering.

 

[Dav]

Rand Paul has openly spoken about how he thought the Civil Rights Act may have been a bad idea. If that's not anti-civil rights, I don't know what is.

He's spoken openly about how coercing companies to do business with people they don't want to do business with may not be a good idea. He is not anti-civil rights by any stretch of the imagination. There's lots of threads devoted to this, and lots of people there put it better than I could, so if you're still unsure just go to one of those.

 

[the makeout hobo]

It will help GOP chances in the fall. Whether that translates to the above-all-be-all national candidate is another matter entirely (with my own personal view being that it will not be a good idea). Nationally, what matters is if the Tea Party can continue to move towards concrete a political platform, and whether or not the GOP can successfully overcome the internal disagreements and unify under a platform that even mainstream Tea Party supporters can back. If they do that, having a Tea Party-branded or influenced GOP can be a winning item for the Republican Party.

I'm not sure if that'd be the case. Agree or disagree, there's a lot in the Tea Party's views that might turn off moderates. It doesn't matter if conservatives rally behind the GOP, if moderates vote Dem

 

[RightinNYC]

The Democrats will do everything possible to highlight the worst elements of the "tea party" and paint all republicans with the same brush. It's nothing new.

 

[cpwill]

Exactly. The GOP chased Crist out of the party because he's a moderate, and now he's ahead in the polls -- because he's a moderate.

support for the Porkulus package and kowtowing to teachers unions does not make you a moderate republican, it makes you a liberal one. if the Republican party is extreme because it thinks the 'stimulus' package hasn't produced any success, then the majority of Americans is "extreme". 56%, to be exact. So if a majority of Americans oppose the stimulus, it's hardly surprising that moderate Republicans would still generally be expected by their constituents to do so.

oh.

and Marco Rubio is now leading Charlie Christ among likely voters 39 to 31%.

two weeks before that, Christ was leading among the same group 38-34%; his "Indy Announcement Bounce" was barely a dead-cat, and it appears to have lasted about ten days.

 

[LiberalAvenger]

The Democrats will do everything possible to highlight the worst elements of the "tea party" and paint all republicans with the same brush. It's nothing new.

The Republicans will do everything possible to highlight the worst elements of the Democratic party and paint all Democrats with the same brush. It's nothing new.:spin:

 

[RightinNYC]

The Republicans will do everything possible to highlight the worst elements of the Democratic party and paint all Democrats with the same brush. It's nothing new.:spin:

You're right, they will.

However, since this was a thread about how the Tea Party would affect the GOP's chances in the fall, I chose to focus on that.

 

[Fiddytree]

I'm not sure if that'd be the case. Agree or disagree, there's a lot in the Tea Party's views that might turn off moderates. It doesn't matter if conservatives rally behind the GOP, if moderates vote Dem

Sure. I would be one of those who cannot quite feel aligned with the Tea Party movement's libertarian foundations or some of its populist appeal. However, political momentum might be on their side. Democrats have lost a large portion of the momentum over the past year.

 

[1069]

He's spoken openly about how coercing companies to do business with people they don't want to do business with may not be a good idea.

When the reason they "don't want to do business" with people is because of the amount of melanin in their skin, that's not okay.
It's a repulsive, reprehensible, anti-American sentiment.
It's not what Americans want for their country.
We said no to that almost fifty years ago.

"Business owners" who feel that way can go peddle their wares in some other country, and so can their advocates, as far as I'm concerned.
America doesn't need them or want them.