Tea party hurting GOP chances in the fall?

[RightinNYC]

When the reason they "don't want to do business" with people is because of the amount of melanin in their skin, that's not okay.
It's a repulsive, reprehensible, anti-American sentiment.
It's not what Americans want for their country.
We said no to that almost fifty years ago.

"Business owners" who feel that way can go peddle their wares in some other country, and so can their advocates, as far as I'm concerned.
America doesn't need them or want them.

America: Love it or leave it.

 

[the makeout hobo]

"a free society will abide unofficial, private discrimination, even when that means allowing hate-filled groups to exclude people based on the color of their skin" -Rand Paul

Who here agrees with his statement?

 

[LiberalAvenger]

"a free society will abide unofficial, private discrimination, even when that means allowing hate-filled groups to exclude people based on the color of their skin" -Rand Paul

Who here agrees with his statement?

Dave's not here! David Duke that is.

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

Who here agrees with his statement?

I think "free society" is highly overrated.

 

[LiberalAvenger]

I think "free society" is highly overrated.

True, just look at our prison system. It proves your point.

 

[Zyphlin]

First, your piece is a dailyKOS article with “Teabagger” littered throughout it. This is kind of like going to The Free Republican circa 2006 and asking if Anti-War movement candidates have a chance and actually taking it seriously. There’s slant, and then there’s a sheer cliff and the DailyKOS is far closer to the sheer cliff side of things.

Second, no, I don’t think it will hurt them. One of the issues for 2006 was the massive disinterest and anger on the part of Republicans. The desire to donate to campaigns was reduced, the desire to talk up candidates to other people was reduced, the desire to get up and actually vote was reduced, the desire to simply be passionate was reduced. The base was apathetic and frankly angry and it caused problems. In 2008 we saw a repeat of this as the base was apathetic and essentially asleep, despite McCain’s pathetic attempt at pretending to be Joe Conservative, until the point that Palin was on the ticket and likely is the only reason it wasn’t a legitimate landslide loss.

What the Tea Party and candidates adhering to its principles represent is multifaceted. Most importantly it represents an energized, excited base that is likely to be active with their pocket books, with their time, and with their words. All three things are extremely important when talking about congressional elections on a non-presidential year as the number of people likely to be paying attention to politics without urging from others is likely to be smaller.

It also presents a platform that is focused far greater on fiscal and governmental conservativism rather than the extremely heavy handed use of Social Conservativism as the focus in the recent past. It puts forth a balanced message, however tailoring the social message in many states less on simply abortion or gay marriage, the latter of which goes in conflict with other portions of conservative ideology, and more on things like Immigration which actually forms good synergy with other tenants of conservative ideology. While I do expect critics to latch onto the loud, but vocal, minority of idiots within the Tea Party movement and the talking points of those individuals, I believe the candidates and the MAJORITY of Tea Partiers will be exhorting the actual broad based and reasonable platform found in the Contract From America. Values and views I think, if delivered well and brought up by active supporters, could perform far better with independents and moderates than many on the far left attempt to lead people to believe through obfuscation by focusing on the vocal minority.

However, another big bonus is that not only do I see it potentially helping motivate the republican base, and possibly attracting some independents and moderates, but that it possibly can be seen as the party reaching back out to the libertarian wing of the Conservative family tree in an attempt to say “We are no longer going to put many of your important ideals on the back burner, but bring it up to even keel with the rest of the platform.” While ultimately the strictest of libertarians are likely to remain voting libertarian, I can see some more moderate ones viewing the chance to get legitimate fiscal and governmental conservatism into the government at the cost of a few social and military issues they dislike as worthwhile and far more genuine this time out then previously.

I do not think it’ll be easy, and I think the senate is the only reasonable location that I think can be won this time out, however I do think that there is potential for a large victory and I do think the Tea Party movement, mixed with a general anti-establishment movement, are part of the reason for that. And while taking back the house is highly unlikely, there is the chance to gain enough that with more moderate democrats in some of the seats the ability to block certain legislation will go up significantly even if its not a republican majority.

 

[Dav]

I do not think it’ll be easy, and I think the senate is the only reasonable location that I think can be won this time out, however I do think that there is potential for a large victory and I do think the Tea Party movement, mixed with a general anti-establishment movement, are part of the reason for that. And while taking back the house is highly unlikely, there is the chance to gain enough that with more moderate democrats in some of the seats the ability to block certain legislation will go up significantly even if its not a republican majority.

Erm, you mean the opposite.

A Senate takeover is very unlikely. A House takeover is quite possible and IMO probable.

 

[LiberalAvenger]

Not many people take into consideration that every American recieves some form of entitlement from the government. Examples: free schooling, Tax write offs for having children, veterans benefits, corporate welfare, medicare, medicaid, subsidized rent and housing, numerous tax write offs for the rich, tax exempt religions, and the list goes on and on.

One side says lets cut their benefits and the other side says lets cut their benefits, ad infinitium.

It's class warfare that has been going on since the dawn of mankind.

 

[danarhea]

Actually, that race is neck and neck. If Democrats want to win this one, all they have to do is pull Meek, and Crist will win it. Otherwise, I believe Rubio will win. If Meek drops out, and Crist wins, he will vote with the Democrats much of the time, whereas Rubio never will.

At this time, I am assuming that Meek will stay in the race. Therefore, although it is early, I will go out on a limb and call this one for Rubio.

 

[the makeout hobo]

First, your piece is a dailyKOS article with “Teabagger” littered throughout it. This is kind of like going to The Free Republican circa 2006 and asking if Anti-War movement candidates have a chance and actually taking it seriously. There’s slant, and then there’s a sheer cliff and the DailyKOS is far closer to the sheer cliff side of things.

Second, no, I don’t think it will hurt them. One of the issues for 2006 was the massive disinterest and anger on the part of Republicans. The desire to donate to campaigns was reduced, the desire to talk up candidates to other people was reduced, the desire to get up and actually vote was reduced, the desire to simply be passionate was reduced. The base was apathetic and frankly angry and it caused problems. In 2008 we saw a repeat of this as the base was apathetic and essentially asleep, despite McCain’s pathetic attempt at pretending to be Joe Conservative, until the point that Palin was on the ticket and likely is the only reason it wasn’t a legitimate landslide loss.

What the Tea Party and candidates adhering to its principles represent is multifaceted. Most importantly it represents an energized, excited base that is likely to be active with their pocket books, with their time, and with their words. All three things are extremely important when talking about congressional elections on a non-presidential year as the number of people likely to be paying attention to politics without urging from others is likely to be smaller.

It also presents a platform that is focused far greater on fiscal and governmental conservativism rather than the extremely heavy handed use of Social Conservativism as the focus in the recent past. It puts forth a balanced message, however tailoring the social message in many states less on simply abortion or gay marriage, the latter of which goes in conflict with other portions of conservative ideology, and more on things like Immigration which actually forms good synergy with other tenants of conservative ideology. While I do expect critics to latch onto the loud, but vocal, minority of idiots within the Tea Party movement and the talking points of those individuals, I believe the candidates and the MAJORITY of Tea Partiers will be exhorting the actual broad based and reasonable platform found in the Contract From America. Values and views I think, if delivered well and brought up by active supporters, could perform far better with independents and moderates than many on the far left attempt to lead people to believe through obfuscation by focusing on the vocal minority.

However, another big bonus is that not only do I see it potentially helping motivate the republican base, and possibly attracting some independents and moderates, but that it possibly can be seen as the party reaching back out to the libertarian wing of the Conservative family tree in an attempt to say “We are no longer going to put many of your important ideals on the back burner, but bring it up to even keel with the rest of the platform.” While ultimately the strictest of libertarians are likely to remain voting libertarian, I can see some more moderate ones viewing the chance to get legitimate fiscal and governmental conservatism into the government at the cost of a few social and military issues they dislike as worthwhile and far more genuine this time out then previously.

I do not think it’ll be easy, and I think the senate is the only reasonable location that I think can be won this time out, however I do think that there is potential for a large victory and I do think the Tea Party movement, mixed with a general anti-establishment movement, are part of the reason for that. And while taking back the house is highly unlikely, there is the chance to gain enough that with more moderate democrats in some of the seats the ability to block certain legislation will go up significantly even if its not a republican majority.

You mention a platform... I've yet to see a coherent TP platform statement, and would love to read it if they've put one out

 

[the makeout hobo]

Dave's not here! David Duke that is.

What does David Duke have to do with anything? I'm missing your point I think.

 

[the makeout hobo]

I think "free society" is highly overrated.

Jeez! What are you, some sort of fascist or something?

 

[LiberalAvenger]

Actually, that race is neck and neck. If Democrats want to win this one, all they have to do is pull Meek, and Crist will win it. Otherwise, I believe Rubio will win. If Meek drops out, and Crist wins, he will vote with the Democrats much of the time, whereas Rubio never will.

At this time, I am assuming that Meek will stay in the race. Therefore, although it is early, I will go out on a limb and call this one for Rubio.

They ought to offer Meek a job as secretary of the navy.:roll:

 

[Dav]

"a free society will abide unofficial, private discrimination, even when that means allowing hate-filled groups to exclude people based on the color of their skin" -Rand Paul

Who here agrees with his statement?

Whether you agree with it or not is irrelevant to the fact that it does not make him anti-Civil Rights. And lots of people here agree with it, just go to one of the threads devoted to it and look.

You mention a platform... I've yet to see a coherent TP platform statement, and would love to read it if they've put one out

They're more general principles than specific platform, but the closest you'll get is the Contract From America.

 

[Dav]

What does David Duke have to do with anything? I'm missing your point I think.

You don't seem to understand how LA posts. Relevant or not has never really mattered to him.

 

[LiberalAvenger]

What does David Duke have to do with anything? I'm missing your point I think.

You asked who would agree with your hypothetical statement. I am sure that David Duke would agree with it. The reference to "Dave's not here is from Cheech and Chongs first album and a comedy routine they did called "Dave's not here"

 

[LiberalAvenger]

You don't seem to understand how LA posts. Relevant or not has never really mattered to him.

Who are you to judge?

 

[Zyphlin]

You mention a platform... I've yet to see a coherent TP platform statement, and would love to read it if they've put one out

Well, to begin note this is not a POLITICAL party but a political MOVEMENT primarily ran and actively participated in by citizens not necessarily law makers so its going to based far more in ideological goals and views rather than specific long stances of specific legislation, ala a political party's platform. That said, here you go, this is the best representation of closest thing to a truly over arching platform of ideas that make up the core of the Tea Party movement:

Contract From America

Protect the Constitution
Reject Cap & Trade
Demand a Balanced Budget
Enact Fundamental Tax Reform
Restore Fiscal Responsibility & Constitutionally Limited Government
End Runaway Government Spending
Defund, Repeal, & Replace Government-run Health Care
Pass an ‘All-of-the-Above” Energy Policy
Stop the Pork
Stop the Tax Hikes

Those are the bullet heads; a bit more explanation is available on the site but wanting to adhere to fair use rules.

 

[LiberalAvenger]

Well, to begin note this is not a POLITICAL party but a political MOVEMENT primarily ran and actively participated in by citizens not necessarily law makers so its going to based far more in ideological goals and views rather than specific long stances of specific legislation, ala a political party's platform. That said, here you go, this is the best representation of closest thing to a truly over arching platform of ideas that make up the core of the Tea Party movement:

Contract From America



Those are the bullet heads; a bit more explanation is available on the site but wanting to adhere to fair use rules.

I would not call them bullet heads. I would call them pipe dreams.

 

[NolaMan]

I would not call them bullet heads. I would call them pipe dreams.

At one point it was considered a "pipe dream" that women and colored people would vote as well. Regardless of your personal feelings on the Tea Party, they have some legitimate concerns that ignoring will not make go away.

 

[hazlnut]

They're more general principles than specific platform, but the closest you'll get is the Contract From America.

Any idea when we'll be getting the specific platform?

Contract from America -

1-Protect the Constitution - from what? That's SCOTUS' job and quite frankly most teabrains lack the intelligence to understand constitutional law.

2-Reject Cap and Trade - that's the GOP platform based on industry funded junk science. But with all the flooding recently, I guess the rising sea levels won't bother the teabaggers. Far-right christians really can't wait for catastrophe. Now I understand Jim Inhofe--he wants to die and leave nothing for his grandkids but blizzards and droughts.

3-Demand a Balanced Budget - fair enough, keep in mind W. took us into two very expensive wars. Allowed unregulated markets to spin out of control and nearly collapse the economy, and basically mismanage the country for 8 years. We have some catching up to do.

4-Enact Fundamental Tax reform - okay, let's hear workable ideas. By the way, balancing the budget and lowering taxes...? Seriously?

5-Restore Fiscal Responsibility And Constitutionality Limited Government In Washington - somewhat of a repeat of 3 and 4

6- End Runaway Government Spending - another repeat

7 - Defund, Repeal, & Replace Government-Run Health Care - Why? (please answer with facts not talking points)

8 - Pass An ‘All-Of-The-Above’ Energy Policy - and after we've exhausted the reserves? ? ? ?

9- Stop the pork - fair enough. Please return all money coming to your district first.

10 - Stop the tax hikes - ARE THESE ****ING PEOPLE RETARDED, THAT'S THE 3RD REPEAT.

So, 10 (really 7) general suggestions. Two of which are identical to the GOP platform.

 

[Zyphlin]

^--- ability to research fail.

Sorry, not dedicating the amount of time to do the research that is as easy as clicking a simple link or typing three words into google for someone that posts as childish and pathetic as a post as the one above. One, the Tea Party is not a political party, its not going to have any more of an exact policy focused and detailed platform than the environmentalist or anti-war movements generally do. Its not going to resemble what you'd see from Democrats and Republicans (and really, go look at either parties platform...neither are extremely policy focused anyways). Two, the list provided is a few word summation of each individual point that does provide a bit more detail into slight more specifics.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Will the tea party help or hurt the GOP in the fall?

Here's what Daily Kos said recently:

The 2010 election is starting to have the bad omens of a well-made horror film if you are sitting in Senator John Cornyn's spot as head of the NRSC. He has had a spectacularly bad run, with no apparent ability to control the teabaggers. Big John was looking like a guy with a pretty good poker hand last year. Lets take a look at how he's played his cards:

Florida: Cornyn and the NRSC endorse Governor Charlie Crist only to see the preferred candidate overtaken in the polls by teabagger Marco Rubio. Worse, Crist leaves the party and runs against Rubio, taking a ton of money Cornyn helped raise with him.

Utah: Cornyn and the NRSC endorse Senator Bob Bennett only to see a group of angry teabaggers throw him off the ballot.

Kentucky: Cornyn and the NRSC endorse Trey Grayson over teabagger Rand Paul. Paul then proceeds to win the nomination by a landslide.

Connecticut: Despite the well-positioned Congressman Rob Simmons, the party machinery in the state pushes him aside and nominates a teabagging, self-funding version of PT Barnum.

New York: Facing an incumbent, appointed, somewhat unknown Democratic Senator who is below 50 percent in approval, Cornyn still couldn't persuade former Gov. George Pataki--or anyone else of significance for that matter--to take her on.

Washington: Failing to attract a fresh face, Cornyn and the NSRC have thrown themselves all over damaged goods Dino Rossi. He is still facing the Palin-endorsed teabagger favorite, Clint Didier.

Nevada: Cornyn threw his support behind Sue "Chicken Barter" Lowden only to see her turn her campaign into a national laughing stock. She's now tanking in the polls as teabagger Sharon Angle gains momentum.

Yes, I know Daily Kos is an opinion site, but the comments are appropriate.

But overall, it seems to me that the tea party people are not helping the GOP at all. Will the chance of making great gains in the fall die out?

Wow, so you take someone who uses "teabaggers" as serious commentary?


Daily kooks is far more extreme than any in the tea party. :shrug:

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

You mention a platform... I've yet to see a coherent TP platform statement, and would love to read it if they've put one out

It's a grass roots movement, not a "party" with a platform. :doh


how many times?

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Any idea when we'll be getting the specific platform?

Contract from America -

1-Protect the Constitution - from what? That's SCOTUS' job and quite frankly most teabrains lack the intelligence to understand constitutional law.

Links to the tea party folk not understanding constitutional law. IIRC your anti-2nd amendment. ironic, no?

2-Reject Cap and Trade - that's the GOP platform based on industry funded junk science. But with all the flooding recently, I guess the rising sea levels won't bother the teabaggers. Far-right christians really can't wait for catastrophe. Now I understand Jim Inhofe--he wants to die and leave nothing for his grandkids but blizzards and droughts.

Do you think a vulgar mouth will make people take you and your points seriously?


BTW, the tea party is far more than some "platform" you find on Google.

3-Demand a Balanced Budget - fair enough, keep in mind W. took us into two very expensive wars. Allowed unregulated markets to spin out of control and nearly collapse the economy, and basically mismanage the country for 8 years. We have some catching up to do.

I see nothing worth responding to here.... :shrug:

4-Enact Fundamental Tax reform - okay, let's hear workable ideas. By the way, balancing the budget and lowering taxes...? Seriously?

5-Restore Fiscal Responsibility And Constitutionality Limited Government In Washington - somewhat of a repeat of 3 and 4

6- End Runaway Government Spending - another repeat

7 - Defund, Repeal, & Replace Government-Run Health Care - Why? (please answer with facts not talking points)

8 - Pass An ‘All-Of-The-Above’ Energy Policy - and after we've exhausted the reserves? ? ? ?

9- Stop the pork - fair enough. Please return all money coming to your district first.

10 - Stop the tax hikes - ARE THESE ****ING PEOPLE RETARDED, THAT'S THE 3RD REPEAT.

So, 10 (really 7) general suggestions. Two of which are identical to the GOP platform.

Like I said, you went out and found something on google, that you failed miserably to trash. Good show. :thumbs: