• Please keep all posts on the Rittenhouse verdict here: Rittenhouse Verdict. Note the moderator warnings in the thread. The thread will be heavily moderated with a zero tolerance policy for any baiting, flaming, trolling or other rule breaks. Stick to the topic and not the other posters. Thank you.
  • This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Tea party hurting GOP chances in the fall?

Groucho

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
1,363
Reaction score
933
Location
Pocono Mountains, PA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Will the tea party help or hurt the GOP in the fall?

Here's what Daily Kos said recently:

The 2010 election is starting to have the bad omens of a well-made horror film if you are sitting in Senator John Cornyn's spot as head of the NRSC. He has had a spectacularly bad run, with no apparent ability to control the teabaggers. Big John was looking like a guy with a pretty good poker hand last year. Lets take a look at how he's played his cards:

Florida: Cornyn and the NRSC endorse Governor Charlie Crist only to see the preferred candidate overtaken in the polls by teabagger Marco Rubio. Worse, Crist leaves the party and runs against Rubio, taking a ton of money Cornyn helped raise with him.

Utah: Cornyn and the NRSC endorse Senator Bob Bennett only to see a group of angry teabaggers throw him off the ballot.

Kentucky: Cornyn and the NRSC endorse Trey Grayson over teabagger Rand Paul. Paul then proceeds to win the nomination by a landslide.

Connecticut: Despite the well-positioned Congressman Rob Simmons, the party machinery in the state pushes him aside and nominates a teabagging, self-funding version of PT Barnum.

New York: Facing an incumbent, appointed, somewhat unknown Democratic Senator who is below 50 percent in approval, Cornyn still couldn't persuade former Gov. George Pataki--or anyone else of significance for that matter--to take her on.

Washington: Failing to attract a fresh face, Cornyn and the NSRC have thrown themselves all over damaged goods Dino Rossi. He is still facing the Palin-endorsed teabagger favorite, Clint Didier.

Nevada: Cornyn threw his support behind Sue "Chicken Barter" Lowden only to see her turn her campaign into a national laughing stock. She's now tanking in the polls as teabagger Sharon Angle gains momentum.


Yes, I know Daily Kos is an opinion site, but the comments are appropriate.

But overall, it seems to me that the tea party people are not helping the GOP at all. Will the chance of making great gains in the fall die out?
 

digsbe

Truth will set you free
Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
May 13, 2009
Messages
20,237
Reaction score
14,252
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
teabagger Marco Rubio... group of angry teabaggers... nominates a teabagging... teabagger favorite... as teabagger Sharon Angle...
This is article is clearly nothing but anti Tea Party movement trash. As far as I've seen, the Tea Party has been influental and has helped nominated favorites of the movement like Rand Paul. I think the Tea Party movement is helping the GOP nominate real conservatives who will shrink government. I almost think of it as RINO protection ;)
 

Groucho

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
1,363
Reaction score
933
Location
Pocono Mountains, PA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
But can they WIN? That's the real question. The fact that they can get the nomination doesn't mean they can win in the fall.

This is especially true with people like Rand Paul, who is inexperienced and a bit extreme for the average voter. His popularity is already falling.

In Nevada, for instance, Reid is very vulnerable but he's actually doing well in the polls because of the poor choices on the other side.

My prediction is that the GOP will gain some seats (as the party out of power always does) but not anything as huge as they are predicting. They certainly won't take the House or Senate back.
 

Dav

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 7, 2009
Messages
5,536
Reaction score
1,813
Location
Virginia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Florida: Cornyn and the NRSC endorse Governor Charlie Crist only to see the preferred candidate overtaken in the polls by teabagger Marco Rubio. Worse, Crist leaves the party and runs against Rubio, taking a ton of money Cornyn helped raise with him.

So basically now the race is between a moderate Republican - Crist - and a conservative Republican - Rubio. Either way, a Republican is almost certain to win.

Utah: Cornyn and the NRSC endorse Senator Bob Bennett only to see a group of angry teabaggers throw him off the ballot.

It's Utah, the Republican is going to win regardless.

Kentucky: Cornyn and the NRSC endorse Trey Grayson over teabagger Rand Paul. Paul then proceeds to win the nomination by a landslide.

And Rand Paul will most likely win the general.

Connecticut: Despite the well-positioned Congressman Rob Simmons, the party machinery in the state pushes him aside and nominates a teabagging, self-funding version of PT Barnum.

Unless the Blumenthal scandal gets even worse, this was a lost cause anyways.

New York: Facing an incumbent, appointed, somewhat unknown Democratic Senator who is below 50 percent in approval, Cornyn still couldn't persuade former Gov. George Pataki--or anyone else of significance for that matter--to take her on.

This was also a lost cause to begin with. Pataki just wasn't going to run anyways, persuasion or not.

Washington: Failing to attract a fresh face, Cornyn and the NSRC have thrown themselves all over damaged goods Dino Rossi. He is still facing the Palin-endorsed teabagger favorite, Clint Didier.

Didier never had a chance at being nominated, and was endorsed before Rossi ever entered the race. Now that Rossi is in, he will be nominated by a landslide, because he is the only one with any chance in November.

Nevada: Cornyn threw his support behind Sue "Chicken Barter" Lowden only to see her turn her campaign into a national laughing stock. She's now tanking in the polls as teabagger Sharon Angle gains momentum.[/I]

Not sure how this one will play out. It'll be interesting to see what happens, but I find it hard to believe that Reid will win no matter who his opponent is.

But overall, it seems to me that the tea party people are not helping the GOP at all. Will the chance of making great gains in the fall die out?

What does your article have to do with that? It seems to me that it was just about what a failure/loser John Coryn is, not about the GOP's chances.


My prediction is that the GOP will gain some seats (as the party out of power always does) but not anything as huge as they are predicting. They certainly won't take the House or Senate back.

Taking the Senate back is very improbable. Taking the House back is pretty likely, IMO.
 
Last edited:

Groucho

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
1,363
Reaction score
933
Location
Pocono Mountains, PA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
True enough, and good points made (although I don't think the GOP will take the house).

The original article was mostly about how the GOP establishment hadn't won much lately. I kind of took that to say "Well, how does this affect their chances in the fall?" I probably should have made two separate threads.

It still seems to me that these tea party candidates who have won the nominations over the established ones will have a harder time winning in the fall (except in those states where the Democrats never had a chance anyway, like Utah, as you noted)
 

cpwill

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 20, 2009
Messages
68,075
Reaction score
34,563
Location
USofA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Yes, I know Daily Kos is an opinion site, but the comments are appropriate.

But overall, it seems to me that the tea party people are not helping the GOP at all. Will the chance of making great gains in the fall die out?

it seems that you are mistaking the good of establishment republicans with the good of the GOP. these are all primary contests; these individuals are coming out of the gate with strong grassroots support; enough to beat out the party in what is typically a party matter. this means in an anti-incumbent year, the GOP will be running fewer incumbents, and it's candidates will already have energy and money behind them. i can think of a few worse 'disadvantages' to have.
 

1069

Banned
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
24,975
Reaction score
5,126
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Well, i don't know.
They're either going to be the death of the party, or its salvation.
It depends upon two things: their numbers, and the median intelligence quotient of the American people.
 

Gina

Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Messages
44,019
Reaction score
29,303
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
I don't know that they are helping the GOP. The Tea Party is more conservative and I just don't see moderates and independents going big for the GOP/Tea Party that is moving so far to the right.
 

NolaMan

Well-known member
Joined
May 5, 2010
Messages
808
Reaction score
203
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
True enough, and good points made (although I don't think the GOP will take the house).

I think it was a long shot (even before any splits) that the Republicans would retake either chamber.

The original article was mostly about how the GOP establishment hadn't won much lately. I kind of took that to say "Well, how does this affect their chances in the fall?" I probably should have made two separate threads.

It still seems to me that these tea party candidates who have won the nominations over the established ones will have a harder time winning in the fall (except in those states where the Democrats never had a chance anyway, like Utah, as you noted)

I think that ultimately the Tea Party benefits the Republicans in November. It has at the very least seemed to energize a lot of people on the right, whereas the Democrats don't really have much to get energized about for the midterms. I think Republicans will see big gains, but not retake either chamber.
 

BWG

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 29, 2005
Messages
4,373
Reaction score
1,602
Location
South Coast
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Yeah even the GOP's hierarchy is backing down their rhetoric a little. House GOP's deputy whip, Kevin McCarthy (R-CA), who recruits for the NRCC was predicting a House takeover with 45 seats back in January. He has since regained consciousness.

House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio) said it would be a "steep climb" for the GOP to win back control of the House this fall.

Maybe it has something to do with NRCC backed candidates not doing very well, topped by Tim Burns expected victory turned crushing defeat in a special election for John Murtha's old seat. Vaughn Ward of Idaho and young star Jeff Reetz in Kentucky lost their respective primarys. Mary Beth Buchanan lost big - 34 points - in her Pennsylvania primary.
 

Alfons

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 13, 2008
Messages
3,300
Reaction score
243
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Will the tea party help or hurt the GOP in the fall?

There are no many difference between GOP and Dems,it seems two parties will be sometimes united, and the Tea Party will became new GOP.
 

danarhea

Slayer of the DP Newsbot
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Messages
43,602
Reaction score
26,255
Location
Houston, TX
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
This is article is clearly nothing but anti Tea Party movement trash. As far as I've seen, the Tea Party has been influental and has helped nominated favorites of the movement like Rand Paul. I think the Tea Party movement is helping the GOP nominate real conservatives who will shrink government. I almost think of it as RINO protection ;)

It's hardly trash, but it is attacking the wrong Tea Party, lumping the crazies in with the real McCoys. There are some good Tea Party candidates, but there is a problem. Much of the Tea Party movement has been hijacked by Sara Palin, unlicensed fake plumbers, birthers, and the rest of the looney tunes. This is going to be a problem for real Tea Partiers, are not like the crazies at all, but down to earth people, who look for common sense solutions to bloated Federal government, taxation, and other real problems. In short, the Tea Party Express, which is not grass roots at all, but political opportunists left over from the now deceased Neocons, is poisoning the movement.
 
Last edited:

the makeout hobo

Rockin' In The Free World
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 13, 2006
Messages
7,102
Reaction score
1,504
Location
Sacramento, CA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
Except, there are several important differences between them. You're just too far off in Right field to realize this.
 

Renae

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
48,389
Reaction score
18,084
Location
San Antonio Texas
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Conservative
I'm gonna have to take an analysis from Daily Kos with a huge grain of salt.

The Tea Party is hurting the GOP only in that it isn't following orders and thus weakening the GOP National Party system.
 

cpwill

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 20, 2009
Messages
68,075
Reaction score
34,563
Location
USofA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Yeah even the GOP's hierarchy is backing down their rhetoric a little. House GOP's deputy whip, Kevin McCarthy (R-CA), who recruits for the NRCC was predicting a House takeover with 45 seats back in January. He has since regained consciousness.

House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio) said it would be a "steep climb" for the GOP to win back control of the House this fall.

Maybe it has something to do with NRCC backed candidates not doing very well, topped by Tim Burns expected victory turned crushing defeat in a special election for John Murtha's old seat.

a point on that one. the democrat in that race ran as an anti-abortion, pro-gun, anti-Obamacare candidate. if conservatism of the type marked by the tea parties is going to hurt the GOP so much, why is the one major Democratic victory story largely a play to it?
 

ADK_Forever

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 6, 2008
Messages
3,706
Reaction score
1,001
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
And Rand Paul will most likely win the general.

Based on what? His anti-civil rights and anti-minimum wage and anti-any-gov't stances?
:roll:
 

Dav

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 7, 2009
Messages
5,536
Reaction score
1,813
Location
Virginia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right

Based on what? His anti-civil rights and anti-minimum wage and anti-any-gov't stances?
:roll:

I didn't know he was anti-minimum wage, but it would be great if he really is; we need more politicians with enough balls to admit that it's a stupid policy. He's definitely not anti-civil rights and anti-any-government, though. Come back when you're ready to be intellectually honest.
 

Psychoclown

Clown Prince of Politics
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 8, 2006
Messages
1,792
Reaction score
1,475
Location
Hiding from the voices in my head.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
The tea party has done a great job of holding Republicans accountable to their long standing message of fiscal responsibility and smaller government. For years the GOP preached that and then practiced the exact opposite. It's no wonder establishment Republicans are being rejected - their record is terrible when compared to the ideals they run on.

The rejection of these establishment candidates isn't pushing the Republican Party further to the right, rather its returning the Republican Party to the positions it has always claimed to hold.
 

Groucho

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
1,363
Reaction score
933
Location
Pocono Mountains, PA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Some of you are missing the point though.

Having "pure" politicians is no guarantee of winning an election; in fact, most of the time it means the opposite. Candidates who are more moderate usually win (depending on their district, of course).

Primaries always attract the more political among us, which means the democratic primary tends to attract more liberals than in the general population and the republican one more conservatives.

I am not sure that this crop of tea party candidates, being more conservative, will appeal to the center enough to win.

Guess we'll see in November, but as for now, I am predicting that this will be an average year, meaning the party in power will lose an average number of seats in an off election, and will not be a huge change many Republicans are expecting. And the reason for that will be the candidates the GOP are promoting.
 

upsideguy

Pragmatic Idealist
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
Messages
18,324
Reaction score
11,279
Location
Rocky Mtn. High
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
The tea party has done a great job of holding Republicans accountable to their long standing message of fiscal responsibility and smaller government. For years the GOP preached that and then practiced the exact opposite. It's no wonder establishment Republicans are being rejected - their record is terrible when compared to the ideals they run on.

The rejection of these establishment candidates isn't pushing the Republican Party further to the right, rather its returning the Republican Party to the positions it has always claimed to hold.

When you start calling Bob Bennett and Charlie Crist RINO's you have tacked too far to the right. If the Repubs had chased the middle of the roaders instead of the far right, they might actually have a shot at the house this year. Rush has led the party astray.
 

Dav

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 7, 2009
Messages
5,536
Reaction score
1,813
Location
Virginia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
When you start calling Bob Bennett and Charlie Crist RINO's you have tacked too far to the right. If the Repubs had chased the middle of the roaders instead of the far right, they might actually have a shot at the house this year. Rush has led the party astray.

Bob Bennet was not a RINO. Charle Crist is the very definition of one. The GOP does have a shot at the House this year, and it is precisely because of the reasons in the post you quoted. It isn't about the "far right", it's about being held accountable for their own principles in ways that, for example, Charlie Crist has not. Rush has not led the party anywhere; he is not the party leader.
 

upsideguy

Pragmatic Idealist
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
Messages
18,324
Reaction score
11,279
Location
Rocky Mtn. High
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
Rush has not led the party anywhere; he is not the party leader.

....must explain why any party leader that has said anything negative about Rush since Obama took office, including statements similar to this, is apologizing and lauding him within 24 hours. Now you are saying Rush is not the boss. This might be a good time for you to get down on your knees and practice your best humble apology.
 

LiberalAvenger

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
16,881
Reaction score
2,980
Location
virginia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Private
Bob Bennet was not a RINO. Charle Crist is the very definition of one. The GOP does have a shot at the House this year, and it is precisely because of the reasons in the post you quoted. It isn't about the "far right", it's about being held accountable for their own principles in ways that, for example, Charlie Crist has not. Rush has not led the party anywhere; he is not the party leader.

Rush is not the leader, per se, but he is the spiritual leader of the party, so who are you trying to kid?
 

disneydude

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Messages
25,528
Reaction score
8,470
Location
Los Angeles
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
The best thing that the GOP can do is allow the tea party to decide their agenda. By moving further to the extreme right, the GOP will show the American pulbic exactly what it is that they for. The moderates and independents will have to decide whether they want our country to move in this direction.
 

disneydude

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Messages
25,528
Reaction score
8,470
Location
Los Angeles
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Rush may not be the actual party leader, but don't kid yourself. Rush is the de facto spokesperson for the Republican party.
 
Top Bottom