Tea party hurting GOP chances in the fall?

[Dav]

That is going to be a task, because the Tea Party IS insane. I am not talking about the regular Tea Party, the original one. I am talking about the crazies who coopted the original one. The original Tea Partiers have been around for many, many years. In 2008, Ron Paul was noted for the Boston Tea Party, which raised beaucoup bucks for him. And this was pretty much grass roots too. Since then, you had the same people who blew John McCain's candidacy to hell take over, and now we have the Tea Party Express, which consists of the same crazies, along with Joe the Unlicensed Plumber, Sara Palin (who actually went up a couple of notches in my book, due to her being in favor of decriminalizing marijuana), and candidates who are scaring the bejesus out of most Americans with their extremism. Here are a couple of those candidates:

1) Sharon Angle - Wants to get rid of Social Security and Medicare.

2) J D Hayworth - Talks a lot about how the government spends money, but just 3 years ago, was the spokesman for a company that ran informercials telling people how they can get free money from the government. So dishonest was this commercial, that the company is rated an F- with the BBB, and attorneys general from 32 states have condemned that company. Yet, the same Hayworth who is running against McCain on the platform of restoring ethics to government is the same Hayworth who put his time and energy into the informercial made by these crooks.

And that's just 2 of them. There are plenty more of them out there.

There are a few in the new Tea Party movement that I would like to see elected, but most of what is available from them are certifiably bat **** crazy. And make no mistake - Today's Tea Party movement is a far cry from the Libertarian one of yesteryear. They are loons, plain and simple.

Arizona Tea Parties have distanced themselves from JD Hayworth, for good reasons.

I don't think Sharron Angle is crazy for wanting to privatize unsustainable spending programs, though. Once the baby boomers start heading into retirement, the discussion will be not whether to reform these programs, but how.
I'm almost positive the "original" Tea Party you speak of were no less "extreme" than Angle on this issue. It's always, at the core, been about unsustainable govenrment spending - and though people may want to pretend otherwise, the only real way to do somehting about that would be to do something about Medicare and Social Security.

 

[Jomiarias]

Currently the Republican Party is a two-headed elephant. The Tea Party has infiltrated the Republican Party and what these primaries show is that the Republican Party today is in fact two different parties sharing the same name and identity. This difference will be more evident the next year when the Teabaggers become an important group in congress.

Now the question is if the teabaggers will left the Republican Party the next year and create a new political party, merging with minor right-wing political parties to create a new major party that can face both major parties in 2012 presidential elections.

 

[deltabtry]

Currently the Republican Party is a two-headed elephant. The Tea Party has infiltrated the Republican Party and what these primaries show is that the Republican Party today is in fact two different parties sharing the same name and identity. This difference will be more evident the next year when the Teabaggers become an important group in congress.

Now the question is if the teabaggers will left the Republican Party the next year and create a new political party, merging with minor right-wing political parties to create a new major party that can face both major parties in 2012 presidential elections.

Third parties always fail, we will take over the republican and return it to it's conservative roots.

 

[the makeout hobo]

Third parties always fail, we will take over the republican and return it to it's conservative roots.

Its roots were as a radical big-government party trying to completely upend the social order of huge parts of the country, give as much government land away, and help out big business whenever possible.

 

[deltabtry]

Its roots were as a radical big-government party trying to completely upend the social order of huge parts of the country, give as much government land away, and help out big business whenever possible.

No it's roots were with Lincoln, I believe you are thinking of the Democrats.

 

[the makeout hobo]

No it's roots were with Lincoln, I believe you are thinking of the Democrats.

Do me a favor: pick up a history book and read the history of the Republican party. Lincoln's Republicans were heavily anti-slavery (look at the statements of Chase and Seward), pro Homestead act, and pro-big business (all the land donated to the train companies for instance)

 

[deltabtry]

Do me a favor: pick up a history book and read the history of the Republican party. Lincoln's Republicans were heavily anti-slavery (look at the statements of Chase and Seward), pro Homestead act, and pro-big business (all the land donated to the train companies for instance)

So are you saying democrats advocate slavery, if so then you would be correct and all the way up to 1964 the Democrats sought to deny equal rights to blacks. When I mention we wish to take republican back to it's roots, that means back to operating with in the realm of the constitution. Don't for one second think that the Democrats aren't in the pockets of big business, we can start with GM, George Soro's, Hollywood, G.E. etc. and the list goes on. Nothing wrong with Homesteading it was needed back in the day to encourage people to go west and the railroads also were needed. Now I will give you that the business practices where shady in the least but non the less it was necessary. Although I don't think we have to worry about the railroads today or homesteading for that matter. The bottom line is that the republican party has strayed from it's core belief, may not be perfect but far better than the Democrat beliefs, which today is socialistic.

BTW all you have to do is look at the mess your own state is in and ran into the ground by Democrats and soon to be Mexicali.

 

[the makeout hobo]

So are you saying democrats advocate slavery,

Yes, the historical version of my party supported slavery. I've never denied that. (Technically, you could study the voting patterns of southern Democrats like Calhoun and northern Democrats like Stephan Douglas, but you're not a history buff obviously, so I'll spare you.)

if so then you would be correct and all the way up to 1964 the Democrats sought to deny equal rights to blacks.

also not something I've ever denied, though I'd like to point out that many of the Southern Democrats, like Strom Thurmond, switched parties to become Republicans after LBJ passed the Civil Rights Act, and have influenced the party ever since.

When I mention we wish to take republican back to it's roots, that means back to operating with in the realm of the constitution. Don't for one second think that the Democrats aren't in the pockets of big business, we can start with GM, George Soro's, Hollywood, G.E. etc. and the list goes on.

Except we're not talking about Democrats, we're discussing Republicans and their "roots". What specific historical period of Republican Party Ideals are you referring to?

Nothing wrong with Homesteading it was needed back in the day to encourage people to go west and the railroads also were needed. Now I will give you that the business practices where shady in the least but non the less it was necessary. Although I don't think we have to worry about the railroads today or homesteading for that matter. The bottom line is that the republican party has strayed from it's core belief, may not be perfect but far better than the Democrat beliefs, which today is socialistic.

Which core, founding belief is that? You don't give anything to back up your claims or explain your thoughts. Also, the Democrats beliefs are not socialistic, stop using words like you know what they mean.

BTW all you have to do is look at the mess your own state is in and ran into the ground by Democrats and soon to be Mexicali.

What's wrong with Mexicans? They're great, hard-working people?

My state is ****ed up because we have an initiative process that lets special interests buy whatever they want, a budgeting system that gives too much power to the minority and keeps anyone from being responsible, and an electorate that would rather punish and hamstring legislators than let them do their job.

 

[LiberalAvenger]

No it's roots were with Lincoln, I believe you are thinking of the Democrats.

Actually it's roots were with tobacco and cotton and African slavery.

Check your American history.

 

[Deuce]

The slavery/civil rights thing in Democrat/Republican terms is such a mischaracterization. Voting on those subjects was divided on a regional line, not party line. Southern Democrats and Southern Republicans voted against rights for slaves/black people, while Northern Democrats and Northern Republicans voted for.

Those Southern Democrats who rallied against civil rights in the 60's? They're Republicans now.

 

[LiberalAvenger]

The slavery/civil rights thing in Democrat/Republican terms is such a mischaracterization. Voting on those subjects was divided on a regional line, not party line. Southern Democrats and Southern Republicans voted against rights for slaves/black people, while Northern Democrats and Northern Republicans voted for.

Those Southern Democrats who rallied against civil rights in the 60's? They're Republicans now.

Yeah, and they are still voting against the workers as expressed in the unemployment extension bill.

 

[VanceMack]

The slavery/civil rights thing in Democrat/Republican terms is such a mischaracterization. Voting on those subjects was divided on a regional line, not party line. Southern Democrats and Southern Republicans voted against rights for slaves/black people, while Northern Democrats and Northern Republicans voted for.

Those Southern Democrats who rallied against civil rights in the 60's? They're Republicans now.

Like Senator Byrd?
Quite frankly, MOST politicians...left and right...are so far removed from the slavery issue its not even an issue. With regard to civil rights I also think there is a world of differencve in how those rights are viewed today vs 50 and 150 years ago. But as for ideology...one ideological mindset believes creating permanent handout programs and built in excuses for failure is a boon to minorities. The other ideological mindset believes that even though it may hurt for a while...hand UP programs create an environment where people can grow, but handout programs keep people weak. It has nothing to do with race, nationality, or color.
Notice I say ideology...not party. The parties are simply invested in doing and saying whatever they need to say to get votes and power.

 

[VanceMack]

Yeah, and they are still voting against the workers as expressed in the unemployment extension bill.

Bull****. The Democrat party has NO ANSWERS to address the unemployment problem and have but ONE game plan...raise taxes and continue to extend unemployment benefits. How on earth is that going to bring about economic change? It wont...what it WILL do is create a permanent dole program...which is what the crippled and dependent sheep are bleating for.

 

[LiberalAvenger]

Like Senator Byrd?
Quite frankly, MOST politicians...left and right...are so far removed from the slavery issue its not even an issue. With regard to civil rights I also think there is a world of differencve in how those rights are viewed today vs 50 and 150 years ago. But as for ideology...one ideological mindset believes creating permanent handout programs and built in excuses for failure is a boon to minorities. The other ideological mindset believes that even though it may hurt for a while...hand UP programs create an environment where people can grow, but handout programs keep people weak. It has nothing to do with race, nationality, or color.
Notice I say ideology...not party. The parties are simply invested in doing and saying whatever they need to say to get votes and power.

Well, the republicans helped with the big hand outs to the fat cat bankiers. They are still fighting to protect big oil from their responsibilities for their crimes against humanity.

 

[LiberalAvenger]

Bull****. The Democrat party has NO ANSWERS to address the unemployment problem and have but ONE game plan...raise taxes and continue to extend unemployment benefits. How on earth is that going to bring about economic change? It wont...what it WILL do is create a permanent dole program...which is what the crippled and dependent sheep are bleating for.

The big bankers love the republicans. Now, they will be able to foreclose on the homes of the unemployed and make another huge profit.

"The Grapes Of Wrath", part II.eace

 

[VanceMack]

To the original post...the tea party voters will hurt republicans. Its no different when the Nader leberals ran and impacted the democrats. And the reality is that like the Nader Liberals...the tea party voters dont CARE if it hurts republicans. The fact is that they see repiblicans and democrats as being so enmeshed that a republican victory would STILL mean more taxes and out of control government spending...so lose lose. They dont CARE if it means a democrat wins the seat. In fact it would probably be a victory.

 

[VanceMack]

The big bankers love the republicans. Now, they will be able to foreclose on the homes of the unemployed and make another huge profit.

"The Grapes Of Wrath", part II.eace

Seriously dude...you dont think the big bankers LOVE the democrats? Are you really that ideologically blinded? Oh yeah...Chris Dodd, Nancy Pelosi, Barney Frank...they have really tasked those bankers havent they...

 

[VanceMack]

The big bankers love the republicans. Now, they will be able to foreclose on the homes of the unemployed and make another huge profit.

"The Grapes Of Wrath", part II.eace

OH...and BTW...how is that whole foreclosing on homes and selling them again and making a HUGE profit thing going?

 

[deltabtry]

Actually it's roots were with tobacco and cotton and African slavery.

Check your American history.

LA, Lincoln party was not it depends on what history books you read.

 

[LiberalAvenger]

Seriously dude...you dont think the big bankers LOVE the democrats? Are you really that ideologically blinded? Oh yeah...Chris Dodd, Nancy Pelosi, Barney Frank...they have really tasked those bankers havent they...

They are crooks too, but the lesser of two evils. At least they give the peasants some grease drippings once in a while.

 

[LiberalAvenger]

OH...and BTW...how is that whole foreclosing on homes and selling them again and making a HUGE profit thing going?

If you look at the huge profits the banks are now making I would say they are doing better than most occupations.

 

[deltabtry]

I had a whole response for you last night and DP went down, for maintaince. To end this debate I would be a conservative meaning I am a strong constitutionalist which a true conservative. The current republican memebers in Congress are not for the most part conservative. As a tea party'er I am not looking to become a third party but to flush out the Rhino's and replace them with real conservatives.

 

[VanceMack]

If you look at the huge profits the banks are now making I would say they are doing better than most occupations.

Now? Banks have ALWAYS made huge profits...thats why they got into the banking business. But the housing market is down, sales of new homes are down, even sales of established homes (which does not positively effect the employment picture) are off. And let me assure you...the banks...like oil...and tobacco...will not suffer. If they increase corporate taxes on banks the banks will pass those fees on to customers.

Point remains the same...you are silly if you think dems OR republicans care about HELPING. Those grease drippings are 'the promise'...the thing that keeps the peasants voting them into power. Enjoy!

 

[LiberalAvenger]

Now? Banks have ALWAYS made huge profits...thats why they got into the banking business. But the housing market is down, sales of new homes are down, even sales of established homes (which does not positively effect the employment picture) are off. And let me assure you...the banks...like oil...and tobacco...will not suffer. If they increase corporate taxes on banks the banks will pass those fees on to customers.

Point remains the same...you are silly if you think dems OR republicans care about HELPING. Those grease drippings are 'the promise'...the thing that keeps the peasants voting them into power. Enjoy!

The last time I voted turd party (nader) Bush won and started world war III..

Who else am I supposed to vote for? The Easter Bunny?

Maybe I will, gosh!

 

[VanceMack]

The last time I voted turd party (nader) Bush won and started world war III..

Who else am I supposed to vote for? The Easter Bunny?

Maybe I will, gosh!

Vote for who you wish. Vote your conscience. Vote your agenda. Just dont be foolish enough to believe that 'republicans bad, democrats good'. Both parties have put this country 13.5 trillion in debt. Both parties are invested in big business and big government.