So Why Are the States with Highest Murder Rates Almost All RED States? (2 Viewers)

[Glen Contrarian]

So why is it that almost ALL of the states with the highest homicide rates are very, very red states with loose gun laws? Here's the top seventeen states, listed by murders per 100,000 residents from that reference:

Louisiana 11.2
Mississippi 8.0
New Mexico 7.5
Maryland 6.8
South Carolina 6.8
Alabama 6.3
Michigan 6.2
Arizona 6.2
Missouri 6.1
Tennessee 5.8
Illinois 5.6
Georgia 5.6
Oklahoma 5.5
Arkansas 5.5
North Carolina 5.3
Nevada 5.2
Florida 5.2

I see, what, THREE traditionally blue states - four if you count New Mexico (a mixed bag at best). The rest are RED states, with loose gun laws and high rates of gun possession. I mean, according to NRA 'logic', Illinois, California, and New York should be the top three...but they're not. They're not even close to the top.

WHY is this?

 

[lizzie]

So why is it that almost ALL of the states with the highest homicide rates are very, very red states with loose gun laws? Here's the top seventeen states, listed by murders per 100,000 residents from that reference:

Louisiana 11.2
Mississippi 8.0
New Mexico 7.5
Maryland 6.8
South Carolina 6.8
Alabama 6.3
Michigan 6.2
Arizona 6.2
Missouri 6.1
Tennessee 5.8
Illinois 5.6
Georgia 5.6
Oklahoma 5.5
Arkansas 5.5
North Carolina 5.3
Nevada 5.2
Florida 5.2

I see, what, THREE traditionally blue states - four if you count New Mexico (a mixed bag at best). The rest are RED states, with loose gun laws and high rates of gun possession. I mean, according to NRA 'logic', Illinois, California, and New York should be the top three...but they're not. They're not even close to the top.

WHY is this?

Most likely because of the state demographics.

 

[CRUE CAB]

So why is it that almost ALL of the states with the highest homicide rates are very, very red states with loose gun laws? Here's the top seventeen states, listed by murders per 100,000 residents from that reference:

Louisiana 11.2
Mississippi 8.0
New Mexico 7.5
Maryland 6.8
South Carolina 6.8
Alabama 6.3
Michigan 6.2
Arizona 6.2
Missouri 6.1
Tennessee 5.8
Illinois 5.6
Georgia 5.6
Oklahoma 5.5
Arkansas 5.5
North Carolina 5.3
Nevada 5.2
Florida 5.2

I see, what, THREE traditionally blue states - four if you count New Mexico (a mixed bag at best). The rest are RED states, with loose gun laws and high rates of gun possession. I mean, according to NRA 'logic', Illinois, California, and New York should be the top three...but they're not. They're not even close to the top.

WHY is this?

Who cares and how does that trump my 2A rights?

 

[Glen Contrarian]

Most likely because of the state demographics.

Ah, and what 'demographics' are you referring to, hm?

 

[Glen Contrarian]

Who cares and how does that trump my 2A rights?

Yeah, who cares how many innocent men, women, and children die, just so's you can keep your toys.

 

[Woodman909]

So why is it that almost ALL of the states with the highest homicide rates are very, very red states with loose gun laws? Here's the top seventeen states, listed by murders per 100,000 residents from that reference:

Louisiana 11.2
Mississippi 8.0
New Mexico 7.5
Maryland 6.8
South Carolina 6.8
Alabama 6.3
Michigan 6.2
Arizona 6.2
Missouri 6.1
Tennessee 5.8
Illinois 5.6
Georgia 5.6
Oklahoma 5.5
Arkansas 5.5
North Carolina 5.3
Nevada 5.2
Florida 5.2

I see, what, THREE traditionally blue states - four if you count New Mexico (a mixed bag at best). The rest are RED states, with loose gun laws and high rates of gun possession. I mean, according to NRA 'logic', Illinois, California, and New York should be the top three...but they're not. They're not even close to the top.

WHY is this?

But, who is committing these shootings? Legal gun owners, or people who obtained weapons illegally? If the guns were illegally obtained, it doesn't really matter how 'loose' the laws are.

 

[CRUE CAB]

Yeah, who cares how many innocent men, women, and children die, just so's you can keep your toys.

If thats how you look at it. But its called keeping our 2A rights. That is what it is about.

 

[CRUE CAB]

Yeah, who cares how many innocent men, women, and children die, just so's you can keep your toys.

And before you start belly aching about the innocent. Where is your stat on how many of these murders were criminal on criminal?

 

[clownboy]

Ah, and what 'demographics' are you referring to, hm?

The one you won't admit to - those are also the states that have the highest black population. Now stop, I'm not saying that's the cause per se, but it could be ONE of the causes. Higher racial unrest may be part of the picture. I don't know. I DO know it has nothing to do with the fictional meme of red/blue states.

 

[lizzie]

Ah, and what 'demographics' are you referring to, hm?

The demographics which pertain to crime statistics. Pretty easy to look up.

 

[Wiseone]

But, who is committing these shootings? Legal gun owners, or people who obtained weapons illegally? If the guns were illegally obtained, it doesn't really matter how 'loose' the laws are.

I don't want to assume so please correct me if I'm wrong but a very common argument is that its legal gun owners who stop criminals in the first place by being armed, wouldn't this statistic contradict that by showing that it is not always the case that loose gun laws and high rates of gun ownership reduce murder?

 

[clownboy]

I don't want to assume so please correct me if I'm wrong but a very common argument is that its legal gun owners who stop criminals in the first place by being armed, wouldn't this statistic contradict that by showing that it is not always the case that loose gun laws and high rates of gun ownership reduce murder?

Interesting, and it might IF there were only one cause we're seeing such stats and not a multitude.

 

[Woodman909]

I don't want to assume so please correct me if I'm wrong but a very common argument is that its legal gun owners who stop criminals in the first place by being armed, wouldn't this statistic contradict that by showing that it is not always the case that loose gun laws and high rates of gun ownership reduce murder?

My question had nothing to do with who is stopping criminals, it has to do with who is committing the crimes.

 

[Glen Contrarian]

The demographics which pertain to crime statistics. Pretty easy to look up.

Come now. I don't think that's what you're referring to.

 

[lizzie]

Come now. I don't think that's what you're referring to.

Come now. I bet you're smarter than that.

 

[Glen Contrarian]

If thats how you look at it. But its called keeping our 2A rights. That is what it is about.

So your 'right' (which it isn't, since we don't have a "well-regulated militia" other than the National Guard today) is more important than the lives of innocent men, women, and children?

 

[Glen Contrarian]

And before you start belly aching about the innocent. Where is your stat on how many of these murders were criminal on criminal?

So there's THAT many more criminals in red states than in blue states?

 

[Ockham]

Yeah, who cares how many innocent men, women, and children die, just so's you can keep your toys.

My car is not a toy.

Let's look at the states with the most stringent gun laws:

California	4.8
New Jersey	4.3
New York	4

Huh... yet Utah, Minnesota and Iowa have under 2.0 and since 1993, murder rates have dropped nationally.

 

[CRUE CAB]

My car is not a toy.

One of mine is.

 

[CRUE CAB]

So your 'right' (which it isn't, since we don't have a "well-regulated militia" other than the National Guard today) is more important than the lives of innocent men, women, and children?

Dont have that right? Hmmmmm really? May want to check on that.

 

[Glen Contrarian]

The one you won't admit to - those are also the states that have the highest black population. Now stop, I'm not saying that's the cause per se, but it could be ONE of the causes. Higher racial unrest may be part of the picture. I don't know. I DO know it has nothing to do with the fictional meme of red/blue states.

If that were the case, then New Mexico wouldn't be on the list of the states with the highest murder rates, since they're something like 39th on the list of states by percentage of blacks in the population. And Alaska is thirty-fourth on that same list. Nevada is twenty-third. In other words, race has nothing to do with it. But here's a clue: POVERTY does. The greater the level of poverty statewide (and not just in the cities), the greater the murder rate. And what states have the highest poverty rates? Red states.

But look what you're doing - you're STARTING with the premise that it cannot be because of the differences between red states and blue states. You're starting with a conclusion instead of looking at the facts and allowing the facts to bring you to a conclusion.

But you know what? Look back at that link that showed that red states generally have higher poverty rates than blue states. Guess what? The rates of poverty are largely NOT because of red or blue governance...instead, the greater the degree of urbanization of a region, the greater the degree of liberalism in that region. Conversely, the greater the degree of ruralization of a region, the more conservative that region will be...and this is true all over the world, and not just in America. Think about that for a while.

 

[Ikari]

Yeah, who cares how many innocent men, women, and children die, just so's you can keep your toys.

Not a toy, thinking firearms are toys are how people get hurt. But it's a valid question. How does the fact that given enough people all rights will be abused and will have negative consequences negate the right?

Free is not safe, it never was and it never will be. It is inherently dangerous. Given enough people, someone is going to abuse the freedom of rights and act against another human being. Almost all rights lead to these negative consequences. It is an artifact, a repercussion of freedom. So the solution is what? Slavery? Seems to be the solution for some.

 

[jamesrage]

So why is it that almost ALL of the states with the highest homicide rates are very, very red states with loose gun laws? Here's the top seventeen states, listed by murders per 100,000 residents from that reference:

Louisiana 11.2
Mississippi 8.0
New Mexico 7.5
Maryland 6.8
South Carolina 6.8
Alabama 6.3
Michigan 6.2
Arizona 6.2
Missouri 6.1
Tennessee 5.8
Illinois 5.6
Georgia 5.6
Oklahoma 5.5
Arkansas 5.5
North Carolina 5.3
Nevada 5.2
Florida 5.2

WHY is this?

Because rate and actual numbers are not the same thing.If you have a small town of 50 people and it has one murder then it will have a murder larger murder rate than say Chicago with a population of nearlly 3 million people. 1 of 50 is 2% while 509 out of 2.715 million is 0.018%

 

[Glen Contrarian]

My car is not a toy.

Let's look at the states with the most stringent gun laws:

California	4.8
New Jersey	4.3
New York	4

Huh... yet Utah, Minnesota and Iowa have under 2.0 and since 1993, murder rates have dropped nationally.

That's called "cherry picking", because you're ignoring the red states that have much higher murder rates than California, New Jersey, and New York. If you'll check, the states you picked are ones that have lower poverty rates than the blue states you picked.

And there's a growing body of evidence that the main cause for the rise of violent crime and its recent fall has nothing to do with society or culture, but of lead exposure. Before you blow off that particular notion, it surprised me, too. Read the article, and search on your own about it.

 

[Ockham]

That's called "cherry picking", because you're ignoring the red states that have much higher murder rates than California, New Jersey, and New York. If you'll check, the states you picked are ones that have lower poverty rates than the blue states you picked.

And choosing how a state voted in the last election or two and making a faulty correlation with murder rates is also cherry picking. Thanks for supporting my point.