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So Why Are the States with Highest Murder Rates Almost All RED States?

Glen Contrarian said:
Um, guy, rates are rates regardless of the sample size. The murder rate in Louisiana of higher than eleven per 100000 is still over twice the rate of less than five per 100000 in California...meaning that someone in Louisiana is more than twice as likely to be murdered than someone in California. This is really basic math.
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Again what I said is true.Rate is not the same thing as actual numbers because the number of murders California had for 2012 is 1,884 murders while it is 495 murders for Louisiana.

U. S. Crime Statistics Total and by State 1960 - 2011
 
sangha said:
Because buying votes with promises of free stuff gets boring after a while
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tends to go hand in hand.

Long before Rush said it, my late Grandfather noted "liberals hate anything that makes men less dependent on government and that includes guns"
 
jamesrage said:
Again what I said is true.Rate is not the same thing as actual numbers because the number of murders California had for 2012 is 1,884 murders while it is 495 murders for Louisiana.

U. S. Crime Statistics Total and by State 1960 - 2011
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The funniest thing I tend to run across is people justifying the murders in Chicago by saying "yeah, but this state has the highest murder rate". So, let's get this straight, a single city(Chicago) is the principle murder driver in Illinois, so much so that it tends to have 1 to 2 hundred more murders than an entire state(Driven by NOLA, Baton Rouge, and Shreveport) and somehow that makes a point that "Chicago ain't so bad"?
 
LaMidRighter said:
The funniest thing I tend to run across is people justifying the murders in Chicago by saying "yeah, but this state has the highest murder rate". So, let's get this straight, a single city(Chicago) is the principle murder driver in Illinois, so much so that it tends to have 1 to 2 hundred more murders than an entire state(Driven by NOLA, Baton Rouge, and Shreveport) and somehow that makes a point that "Chicago ain't so bad"?
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Amazing. I guess nobody taught these conservatives basic math. Look, guys - if state A has a homicide RATE that is twice as high as that of state B (and Louisiana's rate is EXACTLY twice that of Illinois), it means that any given citizen in state A is TWICE AS LIKELY to get murdered than any given citizen in state B. The total populations DO NOT MATTER. What DOES matter is the PERCENTAGE of the people of those populations who are murdered...and the PERCENTAGE of people murdered in Louisiana is - according to the 2012 FBI Uniform Crime Report that is part of the reference in the OP - is TWICE the percentage of people murdered in Illinois.

But of course this is only (middle-school) math, and because it's math and it says something that isn't in line with conservative dogma, in conservative eyes must be wrong.

*sigh*
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Look, guys - if state A has a homicide RATE that is twice as high as that of state B (and Louisiana's rate is EXACTLY twice that of Illinois), it means that any given citizen in state A is TWICE AS LIKELY to get murdered than any given citizen in state B.
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:doh No, it doesn't. This is patently absurd, and preposterously ignorant as to things like demographics, geographical variances, and just plain statistics 101. It is NOT "middle-school math," but it IS HIGH-larious that you post such ignorant rubbish in such a flurry of arrogance.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Amazing. I guess nobody taught these conservatives basic math. Look, guys - if state A has a homicide RATE that is twice as high as that of state B (and Louisiana's rate is EXACTLY twice that of Illinois), it means that any given citizen in state A is TWICE AS LIKELY to get murdered than any given citizen in state B. The total populations DO NOT MATTER. What DOES matter is the PERCENTAGE of the people of those populations who are murdered...and the PERCENTAGE of people murdered in Louisiana is - according to the 2012 FBI Uniform Crime Report that is part of the reference in the OP - is TWICE the percentage of people murdered in Illinois.

But of course this is only (middle-school) math, and because it's math and it says something that isn't in line with conservative dogma, in conservative eyes must be wrong.

*sigh*
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Hate to break this to you, but the raw numbers are the ones that count. Also hate to break this to you, but the "basic math" is not in your favor, see, when you compare a city to a state, it's apples and oranges, when you compare a large scale number like Chicago, to cities that are much smaller it's called a flawed data set.
 
Harshaw said:
:doh No, it doesn't. This is patently absurd, and preposterously ignorant as to things like demographics, geographical variances, and just plain statistics 101. It is NOT "middle-school math," but it IS HIGH-larious that you post such ignorant rubbish in such a flurry of arrogance.
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They get handed a talking point and don't mind looking ignorant to defend it.
 
TurtleDude said:
why is attacking gun rights almost always a hobby of the socialist left?
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probably because they have won destroying this nation of the other fronts.
 
TurtleDude said:
tends to go hand in hand.

Long before Rush said it, my late Grandfather noted "liberals hate anything that makes men less dependent on government and that includes guns"
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Smart man.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
So why is it that almost ALL of the states with the highest homicide rates are very, very red states with loose gun laws? Here's the top seventeen states, listed by murders per 100,000 residents from that reference:

Louisiana 11.2
Mississippi 8.0
New Mexico 7.5
Maryland 6.8
South Carolina 6.8
Alabama 6.3
Michigan 6.2
Arizona 6.2
Missouri 6.1
Tennessee 5.8
Illinois 5.6
Georgia 5.6
Oklahoma 5.5
Arkansas 5.5
North Carolina 5.3
Nevada 5.2
Florida 5.2

I see, what, THREE traditionally blue states - four if you count New Mexico (a mixed bag at best). The rest are RED states, with loose gun laws and high rates of gun possession. I mean, according to NRA 'logic', Illinois, California, and New York should be the top three...but they're not. They're not even close to the top.

WHY is this?
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You need to look at the GUN MURDER rate specifically. Murder rate covers all ways and weapons.
 
PoliticalRookee said:
Murder rate is different than GUN Murder. You need to find a source that looks specifically at that. Murder rate includes everything. Someone could have used a gun or a high heel.
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Murder is murder, the means is not significant. Homicide is not murder, which is not manslaughter, which is not negligent homicide, as well not all homicide is criminal. The convoluted nature of the arguments is intentional on the anti gun side, they muddy the waters while they try to figure out what will work. Like I always say, it doesn't matter if you're dead by guns, a hammer, or pushed off a cliff, the end result is dead.
 
PoliticalRookee said:
You need to look at the GUN MURDER rate specifically. Murder rate covers all ways and weapons.
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They need to look at raw numbers, not specific murder rates. The thing is, if a place has more murders than another place, the rate per x doesn't matter, it's the incidence count that should be troubling. Too many factors are at play for murder rate to be significant, what is going on in the area, where the incidents are most frequent, and even the nature of math which can be manipulative. I can literally sample things mathematically until I get the argument I want which is why one must use the most simple explanation.
 
LaMidRighter said:
The funniest thing I tend to run across is people justifying the murders in Chicago by saying "yeah, but this state has the highest murder rate". So, let's get this straight, a single city(Chicago) is the principle murder driver in Illinois, so much so that it tends to have 1 to 2 hundred more murders than an entire state(Driven by NOLA, Baton Rouge, and Shreveport) and somehow that makes a point that "Chicago ain't so bad"?
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Its their pathetic attempt to try to demonize pro-2nd amendment states. They believe that people are stupid and won't see that that the murder rate and actual murders are not the same thing.As I said in a previous post if a town with 50 people had a single murder, it would have a higher murder rate than say New York city. Alaska for example had 31 murders in 2010 and a murder rate of 4.4, while Massachusetts that same year had 210 murders and murder rat of 3.2.

USA.com : Location information of the United States
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Amazing. I guess nobody taught these conservatives basic math. Look, guys - if state A has a homicide RATE that is twice as high as that of state B (and Louisiana's rate is EXACTLY twice that of Illinois), it means that any given citizen in state A is TWICE AS LIKELY to get murdered than any given citizen in state B. The total populations DO NOT MATTER. What DOES matter is the PERCENTAGE of the people of those populations who are murdered...and the PERCENTAGE of people murdered in Louisiana is - according to the 2012 FBI Uniform Crime Report that is part of the reference in the OP - is TWICE the percentage of people murdered in Illinois.

But of course this is only (middle-school) math, and because it's math and it says something that isn't in line with conservative dogma, in conservative eyes must be wrong.

*sigh*
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Yeah its like people didn't take a basic statistics class if they went college or high school.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
So why is it that almost ALL of the states with the highest homicide rates are very, very red states with loose gun laws? Here's the top seventeen states, listed by murders per 100,000 residents from that reference:

Louisiana 11.2
Mississippi 8.0
New Mexico 7.5
Maryland 6.8
South Carolina 6.8
Alabama 6.3
Michigan 6.2
Arizona 6.2
Missouri 6.1
Tennessee 5.8
Illinois 5.6
Georgia 5.6
Oklahoma 5.5
Arkansas 5.5
North Carolina 5.3
Nevada 5.2
Florida 5.2

I see, what, THREE traditionally blue states - four if you count New Mexico (a mixed bag at best). The rest are RED states, with loose gun laws and high rates of gun possession. I mean, according to NRA 'logic', Illinois, California, and New York should be the top three...but they're not. They're not even close to the top.

WHY is this?
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If you look at the REAL picture you will see the area's with the highest crime are "traditionally blue" controled area's. Lets use Louisiana as an example. The highest crime rates including gun crime come not from the rual read area's but from places like New Orleans etc. Which are again "traditionally blue."

So I say no because your premise is biased and flawed to begin with. This ultimately leads to a flawed conclusion.

We need to address the root causes of crime and not the tools used to commit the crimes like guns.
 
Nynaeve Meara said:
Yeah its like people didn't take a basic statistics class if they went college or high school.
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No. It's like people want to skew the actual demographics so they don't have to admit the lions share of crime including gun crime comes from traditionally blue controled inner city minority ghetto's. To the tune of 70%+.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Amazing. I guess nobody taught these conservatives basic math. Look, guys - if state A has a homicide RATE that is twice as high as that of state B (and Louisiana's rate is EXACTLY twice that of Illinois), it means that any given citizen in state A is TWICE AS LIKELY to get murdered than any given citizen in state B. The total populations DO NOT MATTER. What DOES matter is the PERCENTAGE of the people of those populations who are murdered...and the PERCENTAGE of people murdered in Louisiana is - according to the 2012 FBI Uniform Crime Report that is part of the reference in the OP - is TWICE the percentage of people murdered in Illinois.

But of course this is only (middle-school) math, and because it's math and it says something that isn't in line with conservative dogma, in conservative eyes must be wrong.

*sigh*
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This is a perfect example. You are comparing all killings by state. The majority of killings involve hammers and baseball bats, not guns. Mistake number 1. Illinois is primarily a red state. It is Chicago which is a blue city that is responsible for most of it's gun crime by a wide margin. It is in fact the murder capitol of the US. It is much the same in Louisiana. New Orleans is where most of the crime happens. It is a traditionally blue city in a red state just like Chicago. Mistake 2.

You are making bad assumptions based on numbers you don't understand or don't want to understand.
 
Black Manta said:
No. It's like people want to skew the actual demographics so they don't have to admit the lions share of crime including gun crime comes from traditionally blue controled inner city minority ghetto's. To the tune of 70%+.
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Political leaning has nothing to do with crime rate.
 
Nynaeve Meara said:
Political leaning has nothing to do with crime rate.
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The laws enacted by those in charge do. What we have is those area's with the most crime and poverty tend to be blue. Why is that? You also completely keep ignoring my point. The OP and others I have responded to posted red state blue state and they leave out these little details. So why is that?

Well if you can't answer those, respond to this...

It's like people want to skew the actual demographics so they don't have to admit the lions share of crime including gun crime comes from inner city minority ghetto's. To the tune of 70%+.
 
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