So, Obama is not after our guns?

[Ikari]

I might hire the guy, I'm a pretty good reader of people and the former felon may actually want to be a better person. I worked with a guy who was out of prison for a short time and it was a violent felony conviction(felonious assault iirc) and he was as normal as anyone, he had to be let go because he was prohibited from working in a place with a liquor license as part of his post felon status, which I thought was pretty low, the guy was a good worker and a nice guy just trying to support his family.

Exactly, there's no reason to try to destroy a man's life after you've said he's completed punishment for a crime. Let it be taken as an individual case, remove the government force and allow the man to try to reclaim his life. He's done the time.

 

[LaMidRighter]

Exactly, there's no reason to try to destroy a man's life after you've said he's completed punishment for a crime. Let it be taken as an individual case, remove the government force and allow the man to try to reclaim his life. He's done the time.

I've never understood keeping the boot on someone after they've paid their dues to the justice system. If anything, when you put a person on permanent criminal status it's safe to assume you'll make them desperate enough to commit another crime, it becomes a self fullfilling prophecy that they could be pushed to reoffend.

 

[CRUE CAB]

I'm not splitting hairs I'm just pointing out that there's nothing Constitutionally wrong with it. As for the harm in bringing them back, I see none whatsoever, long rifles especially aniques or older models are harder used in crimes and I don't support not allowing them to be re-imported, however I'm not going to say that the Federal Government doesn't have the Constitutional power to regulate trade.



Except the commerce clause, the fact that taxpayers bought them orginally has nothing to do with it since they were sold/donated to other countries.

First of all, the "federal government" did not have hearing one on this and the president acted completely unilaterally and used EO to stop these guns from coming back to the US.
And it is not "reimportation". They were sent there by our military for use in the event of a NK incursion.
That is highly unlikely and much newer better firearms along with a better trained SK force along with US forces are in place.

 

[Ikari]

I've never understood keeping the boot on someone after they've paid their dues to the justice system. If anything, when you put a person on permanent criminal status it's safe to assume you'll make them desperate enough to commit another crime, it becomes a self fullfilling prophecy that they could be pushed to reoffend.

I don't get it either. People are so afraid of criminals that they start allowing the courts to enact revenge instead of justice. But punishment is limited, if it's not life in prison without parole, then it comes to an end at some point. There's no point condemning the ex-felon to the streets, bully them further and make them bleed a bit more just because some people are afraid of what could happen. In fact by doing so will most likely make what is feared happen by taking away opportunity and ability to recover that the individual once had.

In a system of limited government and restricted force, once the punishment phase has been completed, the full of the rights and liberties of the individual must be recognized again.

 

[CRUE CAB]

Thanks. I am all for giving guys second chances and actually know a felon who I would trust with anything, but I truly think giving/selling a violent felon a firearm is about the same as aiding a crime. The best indicator of future behavior is past behavior. If you hire the guy you are trusting him with property, if you arm him you are trusting him with life.

Then they can go, with thier proof of "changed life" and better decision making skills to court and petition the courts for reinstatement of rights.
If a judge or a panel agrees that said individual has paid his due, proven it was a one time deal, not reoffended. I am fine with it.

 

[Wiseone]

Splitting hairs.
You tell me what is the harm in bringing those guns back here?

First of all, the "federal government" did not have hearing one on this and the president acted completely unilaterally and used EO to stop these guns from coming back to the US.
And it is not "reimportation". They were sent there by our military for use in the event of a NK incursion.
That is highly unlikely and much newer better firearms along with a better trained SK force along with US forces are in place.

I don't know what you're saying but let me correct this one thing for you:

Reimportation is the importation of goods into a country which had previously been exported from that country.
Reimportation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So in this case, the guns were previously exported from the US and are now being imported into the US, reimportation.

 

[Captain America]

Oh noes! Obama's coming for your guns! Better go to Gander Mountain, Walmart or Cabela's and buy as much ammo and weapons as you can, while you can!

This message brought to you by the Gun Manufacturing Alliance of North America. Proud sponsors of the NRA.


Gun nutters are so silly. LOL!

 

[LaMidRighter]

I don't get it either. People are so afraid of criminals that they start allowing the courts to enact revenge instead of justice. But punishment is limited, if it's not life in prison without parole, then it comes to an end at some point. There's no point condemning the ex-felon to the streets, bully them further and make them bleed a bit more just because some people are afraid of what could happen. In fact by doing so will most likely make what is feared happen by taking away opportunity and ability to recover that the individual once had.

In a system of limited government and restricted force, once the punishment phase has been completed, the full of the rights and liberties of the individual must be recognized again.

I get certain things, like if someone abused a specific professional license the board issuing should have every right to say no, however there should still be a process to prove that the ethical issue has in fact been resolved. Other than that, there is no reason to give someone a lifetime punishment if they have served their time.

 

[LaMidRighter]

Then they can go, with thier proof of "changed life" and better decision making skills to court and petition the courts for reinstatement of rights.
If a judge or a panel agrees that said individual has paid his due, proven it was a one time deal, not reoffended. I am fine with it.

I'm fine with the clemency compromise at this time, but realistically we need full justice system reform and more weight to violent offenders than non-violent. I still prefer full restoration of rights upon release.

 

[CRUE CAB]

I don't know what you're saying but let me correct this one thing for you:

Reimportation is the importation of goods into a country which had previously been exported from that country.
Reimportation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So in this case, the guns were previously exported from the US and are now being imported into the US, reimportation.

Who took those guns there and why?
The military took them. When our military leaves weapons behind for use, its not an import export deal.

 

[mak2]

That is a very liberal concept. Too left for me.

I'm fine with the clemency compromise at this time, but realistically we need full justice system reform and more weight to violent offenders than non-violent. I still prefer full restoration of rights upon release.

 

[mak2]

Just one more time I am going to say it. Those guns were sold or donated to another country. That, by definition means the US does not own them anymore. They have been exported.

Who took those guns there and why?
The military took them. When our military leaves weapons behind for use, its not an import export deal.

 

[Wiseone]

Who took those guns there and why?
The military took them. When our military leaves weapons behind for use, its not an import export deal.

Uuuuuuuggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhh

I'm done.

 

[LaMidRighter]

That is a very liberal concept. Too left for me.

It is what it is, until the justice system reflects proper sentencing there has to be a general compromise. Until that is fixed there has to be a stop gap of some sort. However, with proper sentencing there is no reason to further punish anyone who has served their time.

 

[Ikari]

That is a very liberal concept. Too left for me.

It's a pretty American concept, that of limited government and appropriate punishment.

 

[CRUE CAB]

Uuuuuuuggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhh

I'm done.

So you want to call all the Humvees and MRAPs M16s we are leaving in Afghanistan, Imported?

 

[mak2]

Were they sold or donated?

So you want to call all the Humvees and MRAPs M16s we are leaving in Afghanistan, Imported?

 

[CRUE CAB]

Just one more time I am going to say it. Those guns were sold or donated to another country. That, by definition means the US does not own them anymore. They have been exported.

Can you post a link verifying the conditions in which those guns are there and who actually owns them.
On line there is a few differing opinions.

 

[CRUE CAB]

Were they sold or donated?

I dont know, I think they will just be left there. Dont know the conditions and terms.

 

[mak2]

I have been talking about the article in hte OP, it specifically states sold or donated. If I missed something sorry, I thought that is what we were talking about.

I dont know, I think they will just be left there. Dont know the conditions and terms.

 

[CRUE CAB]

I have been talking about the article in hte OP, it specifically states sold or donated. If I missed something sorry, I thought that is what we were talking about.

Whatever the terms were, there is no valid reason for a sitting president with the issues of the day to get involved.
Other than to prove his anti gun anti 2A stance and grandstand in a time when he is getting his ass handed to him.

 

[Texmex]

It's typical because every tiny restriction gets turned into "Until confiscation is a reality."

That's because every tiny restriction IS a step toward confiscation of ALL firearms. I don't expect a liberal to mind it happening, but I do expect them to understand the truth. Maybe I'm too optimistic.

 

[Slyfox696]

Already answered that, try reading.

I did not see it. Could you please copy and paste your response to the question again, or at least specify what post I should be looking at. Thank you.

Absolutely. I would expect them to pander to someone informed on the subject matter by enacting well thought out, purposefull, effective legislation intended to solve a problem.

But then how would the majority of Americans understand it?

I do not expect them to deliberately enact legislation/executive orders/regulations on the premise it will "keep these guns off the street" but does not really accomplish anything of value. (Actually, perhaps I do...) That is pandering to an uninformed electorate who "want to keep these guns off the street". They do not realize that "these guns" and "the streets" referred to by the President are not "these guns" nor "the streets" that they refer to. This executive order is right up there with, "it depends on what the definition of "is" is." It is the kind of deliberate obfuscation I would expect from a teenager.... "Oh, I did not know you meant those guns or those streets. You must have misunderstood me.."

I'd like to have more information until I would go this far. For starters, I'd like to see the full executive action text.

I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm saying I don't feel we have enough information to say that yet.

 

[Texmex]

What might harm our gun rights is this recent insistance on felons etc being able to buy firearms.

And you don't think violent felons who want firearms don't already have them?

 

[VanceMack]

Oh noes! Obama's coming for your guns! Better go to Gander Mountain, Walmart or Cabela's and buy as much ammo and weapons as you can, while you can!

This message brought to you by the Gun Manufacturing Alliance of North America. Proud sponsors of the NRA.


Gun nutters are so silly. LOL!

People do tend to overREACT...heavy emphasis on the word...REACT. Invariably it is because some anti gun douchebag proposed yet another idiotic anti gun measure.