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Smithsonian wants Martin's hoodie

Hi Lady P - I think they wanted Michael Jackson's glove and his old nose too.

1. Did they get the glove? I assume the doctor kept the old nose in cryogenic storage, just in case... . :lamo

2. Where on earth would things like this be displayed in the Smithsonian? I can see Jackson's glove being in the "show biz" section, if there is such a thing, but Martin's hoodie?
 
That is what you have DEDUCED from the evidence. The evidence you considered to reach your conclusion has guided many many others to a very different one. You can no more promote your "belief" about Zimmerman not being racially motivated in his actions than I can say that he was. We do not and never will actually know.
:naughty
Wrong!
It is what the evidence says.
The evidence does not say this, or that, could have happened. It said this happened.

He did not act in a racial manner. That is the evidence. Learn it.

What happened to Trayvon had nothing to do with his race, but with his acting out violently.
 
Why is this so hard for some people to admit? The FBI investigated.... nothing to do with race. The prosecution in closing arguments said - nothing to do with race. The jurors thought it had nothing to do with race.

You know how DOES think it has something to do with race? Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson and the rest of the race-baiters in the country. Why on earth would you believe a bunch of hateful opportunists?

You are confusing issues here. What happens in a court room has to do with determining "based on the law" (and laws are sometimes written poorly and can therefore be applied differently, but we are still obligated to follow them) if the crime someone was accused of can be supported by enough evidence to remove reasonable doubt. But it does not determine the truth of the details surrounding the case nor does it make moral judgement's. So the verdict does not establish as truth whether or not George Zimmerman was racially motivated, it does not justify him shooting TM etc., it does support the notion that TM was a thug. Everyone can keep believing what they choose, including me, but you can't promote it as fact or truth.
 
:naughty
Wrong!
It is what the evidence says.
The evidence does not say this, or that, could have happened. It said this happened.

He did not act in a racial manner. That is the evidence. Learn it.

What happened to Trayvon had nothing to do with his race, but with his acting out violently.

You are just not capable of getting my point.
 
2. Where on earth would things like this be displayed in the Smithsonian? I can see Jackson's glove being in the "show biz" section, if there is such a thing, but Martin's hoodie?

They're starting an African American History Museum to open next year. It shouldn't have, but the Zimmerman/Martin case did turn into a huge national discussion on race that lasted over a year. It makes sense to me why they want it.
 
You are just not capable of getting my point.
You are not getting mine.

The evidence does not say this or that could have happened.

It said this happened.
 
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hey....maybe they can get Trayvon's pot-pipe, screwdriver and the marker he used to vandalize school property to display along side the hoodie?
 
hey....maybe they can get Trayvon's pot-pipe, screwdriver and the marker he used to vandalize school property to display along side the hoodie?
And an interactive display of his cell phone so everybody can go through his photos' and texts, etc...
 
They're starting an African American History Museum to open next year. It shouldn't have, but the Zimmerman/Martin case did turn into a huge national discussion on race that lasted over a year. It makes sense to me why they want it.

Greetings, Anagram. :2wave:

:thanks: for the info. It will be interesting to see how it is presented, since public opinion is so divided on this case. :duel
 
1. Did they get the glove? I assume the doctor kept the old nose in cryogenic storage, just in case... . :lamo

2. Where on earth would things like this be displayed in the Smithsonian? I can see Jackson's glove being in the "show biz" section, if there is such a thing, but Martin's hoodie?

I think they have a modern culture section where they display contemporary pieces of interest and rotate them in then out once they no longer have currency.
 
You are confusing issues here. What happens in a court room has to do with determining "based on the law"

I think that it's you who's either confused, or is deliberately trying to confuse others in order to justify your beliefs.

While it's true that the purpose of a court of law is to render legal judgments or determinations rather than moral ones, that does not mean that the facts, testimony and evidence presented isn't real, or only addresses the legal questions. Trying to hide behind "not guilty doesn't mean innocent" is as dishonest as it gets when it comes to the specific issue of George Zimmerman and racism. When you look at George Zimmerman's past involvement/interaction with minorities (especially black people) throughout his life, the facts and testimony presented in the trial, and the results of the extensive investigation done by the FBI last August, there is just no way that any fair, honest and reasonably intelligent person could possibly believe that George Zimmerman is a racist, or that his actions the night of the shooting resulted from racist beliefs or from racial hatred.

For you, or someone like you to label a person "racist", or believe a persons actions were derived from racism, there must be a legitimate basis for it?

I could understand you doing so if you had evidence that supported the belief that Zimmerman was a racist... but there is none. I could even understand your believe if Zimmerman's history wasn't known, no evidence on that question had been presented, and there hadn't been an investigation into that aspect of things... Then it would be nothing but a coin toss and the only thing anyone could do was render an opinion based on their instinct, experience and ideology. What I can't understand though, is how you could have such a belief when there is a pretty significant stack of stuff that indicates that he is NOT a racist and does NOT harbor any ill will or animosity toward black people.


So what you have done here is to not only pass moral judgment on George Zimmerman based purely on your ideology and political agenda, but you chose to ignored the facts and the truth in order to do so... Maybe that's just the norm to you and how progressives like yourself operate, but I see it as shameful and pretty damned pathetic myself.
 
does not mean that the facts, testimony and evidence presented isn't real, or only addresses the legal questions.

Never said that.

Trying to hide behind "not guilty doesn't mean innocent" is as dishonest as it gets when it comes to the specific issue of George Zimmerman and racism.

Never made a claimed to know whether he was or was not a racsit nor whether his actions that night were racially motivated.

When you look at George Zimmerman's past involvement/interaction with minorities (especially black people) throughout his life, the facts and testimony presented in the trial, and the results of the extensive investigation done by the FBI last August, there is just no way that any fair, honest and reasonably intelligent person could possibly believe that George Zimmerman is a racist, or that his actions the night of the shooting resulted from racist beliefs or from racial hatred.

Never said that he was a racist, never said the shooting resulted from racist beliefs or from racial hatred

I could understand you doing so if you had evidence that supported the belief that Zimmerman was a racist.

I never said he was a racist

So what you have done here is to not only pass moral judgment on George Zimmerman

Never passed judgement on him

You see, this is the same problem rearing its ugly (and probably really tired by now) head yet again. You make a slew of assumptions about what I think based on what you read into my post. NONE of what you said I believe is accurate.

I applaud you for, up until the end at least, remaining relatively civil. But, you still jumped to conclusions and heaped ridicule on me for saying things I never even said, but that you inferred (wrongly) from what I posted.

Dissect things a little further. Show me what I said that substantiates any of this. Maybe, just maybe, I was unclear or maybe you made assumptions. It's one or the other. I would be happy to explain what it is I actually said a little better if you would like. I'll just wait right here.
 
Never made a claimed to know whether he was or was not a racsit nor whether his actions that night were racially motivated.

But you implied it by disputing what someone determined based on what was presented in court and elsewhere. You said that:

What happens in a court room has to do with determining "based on the law"...

...But it does not determine the truth of the details surrounding the case nor does it make moral judgement's. So the verdict does not establish as truth whether or not George Zimmerman was racially motivated​

The fact is, there are some aspects that can be determined from a trial which a judgment can be rendered and in the Zimmerman case, the question of racial motivation happens to be one of them. There are a ton of things going back to when he was a child, all the way up to the present day that clearly indicate the man is not a racist and does not harbor any ill will toward black people, or anyone else. Neither the state of Florida, or the FBI could find anything at all indicating that Zimmerman was in any way a racist or embraced any racial hatred or biases.

Based on the FACTS it's very reasonable for a person to assess that Zimmerman is a racist, and what took place that night had nothing to do with racial bias or hatred, and therefore had nothing to do with why Trayvon Martin ended up dead.
 
The Smithsonian periodically has oddball exhibits they stick here and there. Some of it you can miss because it is stuck in a showcase in an intersection or something. It is no different than having most of the stuff they have--just new junk to get people who have stopped coming in to come in again. Archie's chair, Fonzi's jacket--it is all cultural paraphernalia.

How can you equate the hoodie from a criminal to an iconic object from a TV show that was watched by millions?

Those TV object bring back memories for a lot of people, which is why they are on display.

What memories does the hoodie bring back for millions?
 
Would probably spark a bunch of riots outside by Martinites for some pejorative phrase on the informational plaque that hinted Martin's responsibility for the incident.
 
A white kid dressed the same way would probably still be alive today.

Martin was a criminal and if that person was White and did the same thing, he would be dead too.

Do you think a bullet would not kill a white guy?
 
Martin was a criminal and if that person was White and did the same thing, he would be dead too.

Do you think a bullet would not kill a white guy?
It's not the bullet, it's the shooter.
 
Smithsonian director wants Trayvon Martin's hoodie - Washington Times

When you think stupid can get any stupider... nature finds a way.:roll:

This is merely another symptom of a much larger disease permeating our society. Just because a article generates notoriety does not give it significant importance to US history. This is an emotional response, encouraged by racially motivated groups and the Smithsonian should/must resist the temptation to display it. Do they also want the needle that injected the last fatal dose of meds into Michael Jackson?
 
Given you have REFUSED to show ANYTHING to contradict your hatred of George Zimmerman isn't because he is Latino, your motive for your messages seems clear enough.

SO ONCE AGAIN, to establish what your true motives for your messages are in an apparent intense prejudice against Latinos...

George Zimmerman took an African-American girl to prom, had an African-American business partner, started a petition for an African-American beat up by a white man, did a fund raiser for an African-American church, and has African-American friends and relatives.

UNLESS YOU ARE DELIBERATE AND INCESSANTLY lying to call him racist again African-American due to personal rabid hatred of Latinos, you can easily present FAR MORE involvement you have had with Latinos than he has had with African-Americans.

MANY white people and African-Americans HATE Latinos. In light of this, your messages increasingly are extreme declarations of your racial and ethic bigotry against Latinos. Very disgusting and increasingly fooling no one.

You know that never occured to me that all this opposition to Zimmerman is because he is Latino.

We should repeat this until it becomes true, in Obama fashion.
 
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It's not the bullet, it's the shooter.

So it is your opinión that if a White 17 year old punched Zimmerman in the nose and then tried to kill him, Zimmerman would have thought, "this kid is White so I can't shoot him"

Is that what you are trying to say?
 
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But you implied it by disputing what someone determined based on what was presented in court and elsewhere. You said that:

What happens in a court room has to do with determining "based on the law"...

...But it does not determine the truth of the details surrounding the case nor does it make moral judgement's. So the verdict does not establish as truth whether or not George Zimmerman was racially motivated​

The fact is, there are some aspects that can be determined from a trial which a judgment can be rendered and in the Zimmerman case, the question of racial motivation happens to be one of them. There are a ton of things going back to when he was a child, all the way up to the present day that clearly indicate the man is not a racist and does not harbor any ill will toward black people, or anyone else. Neither the state of Florida, or the FBI could find anything at all indicating that Zimmerman was in any way a racist or embraced any racial hatred or biases.

Based on the FACTS it's very reasonable for a person to assess that Zimmerman is a racist, and what took place that night had nothing to do with racial bias or hatred, and therefore had nothing to do with why Trayvon Martin ended up dead.

Here is the problem with stating that what you think was implied is more accurate than what I know I was trying to communicate. You don't know what I meant, you do know how you took it. I do know what I meant, it is therefore much more likely that if what I say I meant differs from what you feel I implied....you are mistaken. What I said was that no one can claim to know either way. You are welcome to your opinion but we must both accept the fact that we don't know.


Based on the FACTS it's very reasonable for a person to assess that Zimmerman is a racist, and what took place that night had nothing to do with racial bias or hatred, and therefore had nothing to do with why Trayvon Martin ended up dead.

This is your personal assessment, you are welcome to it. But try to remember that it is your opinion and being emphatic about it does not make you right. Only GZ knows the truth, and honestly he may not even know.
 
So it is your opinión that if a White 17 year old punched Zimmerman in the nose and then tried to kill him, Zimmerman would have thought, "this kid is White so I can't shoot him"

Is that what you are trying to say?
If the kid had been white Zimmerman would have left him alone. That's exactly what he should have done, and didn't.
 
If the kid had been white Zimmerman would have left him alone. That's exactly what he should have done, and didn't.

If the kid had been white...he probably wouldn't have punched Zimmerman in the face for asking him a question
 
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