Should young single women be paying for the first date with a man?

[RiverDad]

It used to be the case that men, generally, paid for dates because they were earning more money than women. Then as incomes started to converge there was a trend towards sharing the date costs, though men still paid for more of the first, or early, dates. Should men continue the practice of, generally, paying for first, or early, dates now that young single women earn more than young single men?

according to a new analysis of 2,000 communities by a market research company, in 147 out of 150 of the biggest cities in the U.S., the median full-time salaries of young women are 8% higher than those of the guys in their peer group. In two cities, Atlanta and Memphis, those women are making about 20% more. This squares with earlier research from Queens College, New York, that had suggested that this was happening in major metropolises. But the new study suggests that the gap is bigger than previously thought, with young women in New York City, Los Angeles and San Diego making 17%, 12% and 15% more than their male peers, respectively. And it also holds true even in reasonably small areas like the Raleigh-Durham region and Charlotte in North Carolina (both 14% more), and Jacksonville, Fla. (6%).​

If women do begin the practice of paying for more of the first dates, should men embrace the presumption that they'll be expected to put out at the end of the date? Women seemed to resent that expectation but I'm not so sure that men are prepared to follow women down that path. This could be like a gift from heaven for young men - a free first date and the promise of sex at the end of the evening. Is there a downside?

 

[Jetboogieman]

It used to be the case that men, generally, paid for dates because they were earning more money than women. Then as incomes started to converge there was a trend towards sharing the date costs, though men still paid for more of the first, or early, dates. Should men continue the practice of, generally, paying for first, or early, dates now that young single women earn more than young single men?

according to a new analysis of 2,000 communities by a market research company, in 147 out of 150 of the biggest cities in the U.S., the median full-time salaries of young women are 8% higher than those of the guys in their peer group. In two cities, Atlanta and Memphis, those women are making about 20% more. This squares with earlier research from Queens College, New York, that had suggested that this was happening in major metropolises. But the new study suggests that the gap is bigger than previously thought, with young women in New York City, Los Angeles and San Diego making 17%, 12% and 15% more than their male peers, respectively. And it also holds true even in reasonably small areas like the Raleigh-Durham region and Charlotte in North Carolina (both 14% more), and Jacksonville, Fla. (6%).​

If women do begin the practice of paying for more of the first dates, should men embrace the presumption that they'll be expected to put out at the end of the date? Women seemed to resent that expectation but I'm not so sure that men are prepared to follow women down that path. This could be like a gift from heaven for young men - a free first date and the promise of sex at the end of the evening. Is there a downside?

I came.

I read.

I facepalmed.

I clicked "What's New?"

 

[AriesAngel]

Naaaaa..I say let the gents keep paying, it works out nicely that way

 

[Graffias]

Feminists have been complaining for decades about females being held back by anachronistic views about the roles of women in society, yet most women still want to retain the traditional benefits of being a female. Women can't have it both ways, though. If I fulfill the traditional male role of paying on a date, will you come over to my apartment and fulfill your traditional womanly role by preparing a dinner for me and doing my dishes? I think most women would find this sexist.

I personally resent the fact that as a male, it's often assumed that I should be the one paying for a woman on a date. Women often say that they really don't expect men to pay, and whoever asks should pay. But we all know most women will not bother asking men on a date, much less initiate a conversation with a man. Men pretty much are expected to do everything when it comes to courtship and dating, and there are no signs of this changing anytime soon. It's the 21st Century, and women should be paying for their own dates.

 

[atrasicarius]

I generally offer to pay on the first date, with the expectation that she's going to pay next time. That tends to help there be a next time, as well.

 

[finebead]

She should pay for the date if she asked him to go on it. If he asked her, he should pay.

 

[samsmart]

It used to be the case that men, generally, paid for dates because they were earning more money than women. Then as incomes started to converge there was a trend towards sharing the date costs, though men still paid for more of the first, or early, dates. Should men continue the practice of, generally, paying for first, or early, dates now that young single women earn more than young single men?

according to a new analysis of 2,000 communities by a market research company, in 147 out of 150 of the biggest cities in the U.S., the median full-time salaries of young women are 8% higher than those of the guys in their peer group. In two cities, Atlanta and Memphis, those women are making about 20% more. This squares with earlier research from Queens College, New York, that had suggested that this was happening in major metropolises. But the new study suggests that the gap is bigger than previously thought, with young women in New York City, Los Angeles and San Diego making 17%, 12% and 15% more than their male peers, respectively. And it also holds true even in reasonably small areas like the Raleigh-Durham region and Charlotte in North Carolina (both 14% more), and Jacksonville, Fla. (6%).​

If women do begin the practice of paying for more of the first dates, should men embrace the presumption that they'll be expected to put out at the end of the date? Women seemed to resent that expectation but I'm not so sure that men are prepared to follow women down that path. This could be like a gift from heaven for young men - a free first date and the promise of sex at the end of the evening. Is there a downside?

I don't presume anything when it comes to dating, as I believe that the unwritten rules aren't worth the paper they're printed on.

I never dated much, but when I did I paid for the evening. However, I made sure to never do anything that I couldn't afford to pay for my date and I to do. If I were to date a woman who wanted to go somewhere more expensive, I would tell her that I can't afford it. So then she has to decide what to do from there: either pay for us both, go alone and only pay for herself, or find someone else to go with who can afford it himself or can afford the both of them. Any of those she chooses won't bother me much.

Also, if a woman wants to spend money on me that's fine. However, I'm not going to assume that she will just because she's a woman, as each individual woman has an individual personality.

Besides, the study says that at most 20% of women earn more than most men do. That means that 80% of women are still earning less than men do. So it is still more likely that the woman any man dates will be a woman who is earning less.

And I don't presume that a woman will put out for me just because I fed her for the night and paid for her movie ticket. Any man who thinks that is an idiot and if all they want is a woman to put out for them for paying a few bucks then they should lobby their political officials to legalize prostitution rather than make that assumption.

I would also like to point out that different people date for different reasons. Yes, some people date just to find a sexual partner. However, some people date just for companionship while others date looking for a relationship. So that makes the statistics of sex on a first date even less likely.

Because of all these stupid presumptions that people have, I am extremely horrified by dating. That's why I much prefer to just hang out. That way I can get to know a woman and allow a woman to get to know me without the pressures of dating that can come up. And then if there's chemistry we can act on that without all the awkwardness of not really knowing each other. And by that time the issue of who is paying for what isn't an issue since we'll know each other so well we don't have to ask - we can just intuit how to handle it from what we know of each other's personalities.

 

[ecofarm]

People bring different things to the table. I bring intellect, looks and experience. I don't know if I should pay my 'share' most of the time. In general, my gfs pay, buy clothing and stuff and take me places. I'd prefer if she drives.

 

[OhIsee.Then]

It used to be the case that men, generally, paid for dates because they were earning more money than women. Then as incomes started to converge there was a trend towards sharing the date costs, though men still paid for more of the first, or early, dates. Should men continue the practice of, generally, paying for first, or early, dates now that young single women? ...

This is a valid question, but in practice I think it has been answered.

... If women do begin the practice of paying for more of the first dates, should men embrace the presumption that they'll be expected to put out at the end of the date? Women seemed to resent that expectation but I'm not so sure that men are prepared to follow women down that path. This could be like a gift from heaven for young men - a free first date and the promise of sex at the end of the evening. Is there a downside?

You screwed up. The concept of “put out” for anything is ****ed up. That is a root problem that screws things up. It needs to be disassociated from dating. “Put out” as payment is the problem.

 

[PerfectStorm]

She can pay but she sure as hell better not be opening my car door for me.

 

[Aunt Spiker]

What's this 'dating' thing?

Well - when my husband and I were in this brief phase we never did anything that required money to be spent like going out to eat or going to the movies. Such cliches never suited us. It also didn't fit in with our busy days, the kids and our other things going on. We'd just hang out for an hour during his break, at the end of my shift at night, or run errands together.

And so that's how we are: very untraditional - no real wedding or anything like that, either. We're were about not spending money just to be together and now we're all about not spending money just to have decent vehicles and a nice house to live in.

 

[tessaesque]

Feminists have been complaining for decades about females being held back by anachronistic views about the roles of women in society, yet most women still want to retain the traditional benefits of being a female. Women can't have it both ways, though. If I fulfill the traditional male role of paying on a date, will you come over to my apartment and fulfill your traditional womanly role by preparing a dinner for me and doing my dishes? I think most women would find this sexist.

I personally resent the fact that as a male, it's often assumed that I should be the one paying for a woman on a date. Women often say that they really don't expect men to pay, and whoever asks should pay. But we all know most women will not bother asking men on a date, much less initiate a conversation with a man. Men pretty much are expected to do everything when it comes to courtship and dating, and there are no signs of this changing anytime soon. It's the 21st Century, and women should be paying for their own dates.

If I get the vibe that the guy is interested then I'll ask. If I ask then I'll pay.

The problem I have is that a lot of men don't like being asked. They feel as though the woman is too foward and therefore desperate.

It works both ways, basically.

 

[Arcana XV]

I'm very comfortable financially. I don't really date anymore, but if I did I wouldn't mind paying for the first date and no, I definitely would not expect sex at the end. I always thought that was a really retarded concept no matter who's paying for what.

 

[Gardener]

I came.

Oh you young fellows and your hair triggers! Just reading about going on a date is enough. I sure miss those days.

I'm now to the point I have to rely on visual aids and the construction of increasingly elaborate fantasies to do the trick........

 

[Gardener]

People bring different things to the table. I bring intellect, looks and experience.

I bring my fork.

 

[Gipper]

Feminists have been complaining for decades about females being held back by anachronistic views about the roles of women in society, yet most women still want to retain the traditional benefits of being a female. Women can't have it both ways, though. If I fulfill the traditional male role of paying on a date, will you come over to my apartment and fulfill your traditional womanly role by preparing a dinner for me and doing my dishes? I think most women would find this sexist.

I personally resent the fact that as a male, it's often assumed that I should be the one paying for a woman on a date. Women often say that they really don't expect men to pay, and whoever asks should pay. But we all know most women will not bother asking men on a date, much less initiate a conversation with a man. Men pretty much are expected to do everything when it comes to courtship and dating, and there are no signs of this changing anytime soon. It's the 21st Century, and women should be paying for their own dates.

This is the definitive post in the thread. It also highlights what I've said for years now - feminism is not about equality. It's about eliminating all the negatives of being a woman while retaining all the positives.

Want true equality? Go dutch. Every time.

 

[Aunt Spiker]

well boo to that.
I guess I really am a freak of nature and I'm not a 'normal woman'
Oh well - my husband loves me.

Joking aside - I don't see how 'dating norms' are indicative of 'feminism in general'

Equal pay for equal work, right to have a safe working environment, the right to own property, the right to vote, the ability to be independent if desired, the right to get a higher education and pursue a degree of any type, the privileged to defend our country, the right ot patent inventions and publish written works.

See - more serious things, stuff that a nation relies on and depends on to grow and prosper. . . not dating rituals or things like makeup and shoes.

Geesh

 

[liblady]

Feminists have been complaining for decades about females being held back by anachronistic views about the roles of women in society, yet most women still want to retain the traditional benefits of being a female. Women can't have it both ways, though. If I fulfill the traditional male role of paying on a date, will you come over to my apartment and fulfill your traditional womanly role by preparing a dinner for me and doing my dishes? I think most women would find this sexist.

I personally resent the fact that as a male, it's often assumed that I should be the one paying for a woman on a date. Women often say that they really don't expect men to pay, and whoever asks should pay. But we all know most women will not bother asking men on a date, much less initiate a conversation with a man. Men pretty much are expected to do everything when it comes to courtship and dating, and there are no signs of this changing anytime soon. It's the 21st Century, and women should be paying for their own dates.

lol...not to be crude, but as long as we have the lady parts, you'll be paying.

seriously, if you ask a woman out, you pay. if she asks you out, she pays. in a relationship, share.

 

[Aunt Spiker]

The next thing we know there will be a study about what guys think of women who don't like to dawn a strap on and take him from behind.

 

[Blue Dog]

The next thing we know there will be a study about what guys think of women who don't like to dawn a strap on and take him from behind.

Tell me more.eace

 

[Aunt Spiker]

Tell me more.eace

:rofl

But I do extend some sympathy for guys, however. Yes - guys generally are defaulted to the courtship thing, true. And when I was single - soooo long ago - and younger and had guys interested in me I didn't have the strength to reciprocate or go after the guys I really liked. It was an awkward thing to try to get into. And to see so many guys going for it anyway - they have more guts than I ever did in the pursuant department.

 

[00timh]

The next thing we know there will be a study about what guys think of women who don't like to dawn a strap on and take him from behind.

Its likely that this study will have a different outcome for anonymous vs 1st name and location given :lol:

my general thoughts are that guys who ask should expect to foot the bill. Guys who make substantially more should foot the majority of the bill. (hey it works with taxes... or suppose to anyway) women who make substantially more... eh, perhaps they should help out some. Still though, when they are asked, I don't know that there is an expectation that they should pay. IF they ask, then yes, they should expect to pay for it, or a lot of it anyway. IMO, its perfectly fine if the woman helps out somewhat on the 1st or subsequent dates. pay the tip, get the snacks at the movie, buy a round at the club... Generally though overall, he/she who asks should expect to pay, and that is still typically the guy who asks.

 

[00timh]

:rofl

But I do extend some sympathy for guys, however. Yes - guys generally are defaulted to the courtship thing, true. And when I was single - soooo long ago - and younger and had guys interested in me I didn't have the strength to reciprocate or go after the guys I really liked. It was an awkward thing to try to get into. And to see so many guys going for it anyway - they have more guts than I ever did in the pursuant department.

Part of it is being raised as a male or female, so there is an expection thing. Generally to... its a mindset that when it is expected that your gender is the pursuer, ya just go for it. It's not always easy though (guys view) There is anxiety about it all. I guess we just get used to feeling it and dealing with it.

 

[Your Star]

Most dates I've ever been on we've each paid for what we bought.

 

[Tigger]

Any woman who does more than a cursory "let me get that" in regards to the check at the end of a first date before allowing me to pay only ensures that there will NOT be a second date with me. I don't care how much more or less than me she makes.