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Should men have a right to damage fetus with substances and other ways?

Should a man have a right to damage fetus with substances and in other ways?

  • Yes

    Votes: 3 33.3%
  • No

    Votes: 6 66.7%

  • Total voters
    9

joko104

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Many substances damage male sperm DNA that can lead to birth defects. The list includes many drugs, steroids, cancer drugs, prescription drugs, illegal drugs, and caffeine. X-rays damage male sperm DNA. So can handling pesticides. Should laws be passed to prohibit men from and punish men for using substances or undertaking actions that may damage a fetus if the man is sexually active and has not had a vasectomy?
 

Moot

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Well, you know what they say, "whats good for the goose is good for the gander."
 

X Factor

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Sperm =/= fetus :roll:

When did the fetus that has no value and that's just this cancer and parasite suddenly become worthy of consideration?
 

Your Star

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Sperm =/= fetus :roll:

When did the fetus that has no value and that's just this cancer and parasite suddenly become worthy of consideration?

strawman2.jpg
 

X Factor

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Removable Mind

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Many substances damage male sperm DNA that can lead to birth defects. The list includes many drugs, steroids, cancer drugs, prescription drugs, illegal drugs, and caffeine. X-rays damage male sperm DNA. So can handling pesticides. Should laws be passed to prohibit men from and punish men for using substances or undertaking actions that may damage a fetus if the man is sexually active and has not had a vasectomy?


Joko, I agree...and we must be on the same wave length...I just made this argument in another thread of a similar title.

My question was: Should men be prosecuted for ejaculating damaged sperm into a woman, which was the result of men abusing drugs?

And I pointed out...as you have that there are a lot of everyday environmental things that can damage the DNA in sperm.

And as you've indicated...there is a lot of information about damaged DNA in sperm, which can cause birth defects and fetal death in the womb.

But as you've noticed...women are the sole target of condemnation regarding conception issues...and nobody wants to place the same kind of scrutiny on men for possible crimes against fetuses.

And I've come to the conclusion that we have a nation full of moral fascists who are instigating an inquisition against women's rights.

Oh, and one final point. Should government force men to regularly have their sperm tested in ensure that they aren't capable of co-conceiving children with serious birth defects...or causing fetuses to die in the womb?

Thanks for creating this topic. I think it's an important consideration.
 

Aunt Spiker

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Bull****. I've seen all those very arguments multiple times. You yourself say it's about her body, period, end of story.

What argument?

I've never heard anyone ever claim anything regarding a women's embryo. . .I hear 'if you want to have a child you should take folic acid' and '...women who intend on getting pregnant shouldn't handle/use product' (purely a company's legal concern)

No one cares if she does anything UNTIL she's pregnant - and that goes for both camps.
 

joko104

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Bull****. I've seen all those very arguments multiple times. You yourself say it's about her body, period, end of story.

No, the poll does not ask what I or others think, it is asking what you think. Do YOU hold YOURSELF as a man to the same values you want to hold a woman to?

It seems ProLifers start screaming FOUL! and every possible diversion whenever the question is simple: "do you think you as a man should be held to the same demands you make upon women?"

The OP expresses no opinion whatsoever either way on abortion. It just asks a poll question essentially identical to one asked about women, only the poll I started has a neutral OP.

What is your answer?
 

Aunt Spiker

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No, the poll does not ask what I or others think, it is asking what you think. Do YOU hold YOURSELF as a man to the same values you want to hold a woman to?

It seems ProLifers start screaming FOUL! and every possible diversion whenever the question is simple: "do you think you as a man should be held to the same demands you make upon women?"

What is your answer?

Well it just doesn't work that way: men cannot get pregnant and nothing they do directly impacts the growing and developing unborn.
That's the whole crux of the issue: men cannot get pregnant.

There is no evidence that drug use and other things BEFORE conception puts a later developing unborn at risk for both MEN and WOMEN. What does become affected might be things like sperm count - or viability. And even then: embryos and sperm are pretty ****ing stubborn.
 

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Well, hell, if we're going to go down this ridiculous rabbit hole then, to be consistent, women should also not handle pesticides or have x-rays and should have their eggs looked at and blood tested to make sure she doesn't pass on anything harmful to babies who aren't even conceived yet.

While we're at it, let's make all crimes or harm that could potentially happen in the future punishable now, because that's what we're talking about. Better yet, all men should just be locked up right now. That would prevent 95% percent of rape right there.

And we're accused of fascism. I'm beginning to believe there's very little intellectual honesty among many pro-choicers.
 

Unitedwestand13

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Well it just doesn't work that way: men cannot get pregnant and nothing they do directly impact the growing and developing unborn.

That's the whole crux of the issue: men cannot get pregnant.

male seahorses can get pregnent but that is another issue entirely.
 

Aunt Spiker

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Well, hell, if we're going to go down this ridiculous rabbit hole then, to be consistent, women should also not handle pesticides or have x-rays and should have their eggs looked at and blood tested to make sure she doesn't pass on anything harmful to babies who aren't even conceived yet.

While we're at it, let's make all crimes or harm that could potentially happen in the future punishable now, because that's what we're talking about. Better yet, all men should just be locked up right now. That would prevent 95% percent of rape right there.

And we're accused of fascism. I'm beginning to believe there's very little intellectual honesty among many pro-choicers.

No - just like the pro-life camp: don't let a few wackos with extreme views and crazed points represent everyone else for some reason.
 

joko104

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Well, hell, if we're going to go down this ridiculous rabbit hole then, to be consistent, women should also not handle pesticides or have x-rays and should have their eggs looked at and blood tested to make sure she doesn't pass on anything harmful to babies who aren't even conceived yet.

While we're at it, let's make all crimes or harm that could potentially happen in the future punishable now, because that's what we're talking about. Better yet, all men should just be locked up right now. That would prevent 95% percent of rape right there.

And we're accused of fascism. I'm beginning to believe there's very little intellectual honesty among many pro-choicers.

Once again, the OP and wording of the poll is entirely neutral. You are merely setting up your own strawman that does not exist in the poll or the OP apparently to avoid simply answering. Like the other poll, it is a yes-no question. And you can otherwise state your opinion. Instead, you are attacking ghosts and phantoms.

I have not advocated anything in this poll, nor did I advocate anything in the similar poll about women in my response. What I stated is determining what is harmful and prohibited/actionable is problematical - but to the extent such should be law about women, then what about men too - the subject of this poll.

There is nothing in the poll asking about having sperm or blood tested. If you don't think X-rays should be included, then say so. Did you rage of such other things in the poll about women and call that poll author and prolifers facists? All I have done is asked a question without any editorial whatsoever.
 
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Well it just doesn't work that way: men cannot get pregnant and nothing they do directly impacts the growing and developing unborn.
That's the whole crux of the issue: men cannot get pregnant.

There is no evidence that drug use and other things BEFORE conception puts a later developing unborn at risk for both MEN and WOMEN. What does become affected might be things like sperm count - or viability. And even then: embryos and sperm are pretty ****ing stubborn.

Thank you, AS. I know how strongly pro choice you are but I have a lot of respect for your intellectual honesty.
 
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X Factor

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No - just like the pro-life camp: don't let a few wackos with extreme views and crazed points represent everyone else for some reason.

You're right. After your last post, I was going to delete that sentence.
 

joko104

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Since a woman's eggs are already formed, and sperm is not, it is possible substance abuse and various drugs and chemicals more cause birth defects via men than women as the dna in the eggs is already formed. One article suggests that exploring women and varous causes of birth defects leaves a full 40% unexplainable and suggests it might be time to not just explore the subject of birth defects limiting it to trying to find all faults and sources singularly with the woman.

Why is exploring the causes of birth defects and how to avoid them a question "fascists" ask ONLY in regards to men, but entirely acceptable as a topic in regards to women - for which laws are even being proposed and passed.
 

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Once again, the OP and wording of the poll is entirely neutral. You are merely setting up your own strawman that does not exist in the poll or the OP apparently to avoid simply answering. Like the other poll, it is a yes-no question. And you can otherwise state your opinion. Instead, you are attacking ghosts and phantoms.

I have not advocated anything in this poll, nor did I advocate anything in the similar poll about women in my response. What I stated is determining what is harmful and prohibited/actionable is problematical - but to the extent such should be law about women, then what about men too - the subject of this poll.

There is nothing in the poll asking about having sperm tested. Did you rage of such other things in the poll about women and call the poll author and prolifers facists?

I just used the same idiotic reasoning you did. If you think for me to be consistent that I need to vote that men cannot get x-rays and if they do that's just the same thing as a pregnant woman using crack daily then, clearly, reasoning is not your thing. I'll tell you this though, when it comes to an already present baby in the womb, I damn sure would advocate that a guy be held accountable if he did something to hurt it.

BTW, it was Removable Mind who suggested testing sperm.
 

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Since a woman's eggs are already formed, and sperm is not, it is possible substance abuse and various drugs and chemicals more cause birth defects via men than women as the dna in the eggs is already formed. One article suggests that exploring women and varous causes of birth defects leaves a full 40% unexplainable and suggests it might be time to not just explore the subject of birth defects limiting it to trying to find all faults and sources singularly with the woman.

Why is exploring the causes of birth defects and how to avoid them a question "fascists" ask ONLY in regards to men, but entirely acceptable as a topic in regards to women - for which laws are even being proposed and passed.

You're not asking about the causes of birth defects, you're asking if men should have the right to harm fetuses that haven't even been conceived yet and may or may not be. If only you were as equally concerned for preborn babies that actually do exist. If I were to use many of your arguments, I'd say of course we have that right since fetuses has no value, deserves no consideration, actually should be evicted from the womb as soon as possible, and after all, aborting it is actually a great gift.
 
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ecofarm

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Does being stupid and reproducing count as ~"damaging a fetus".
 

Removable Mind

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Well it just doesn't work that way: men cannot get pregnant and nothing they do directly impacts the growing and developing unborn.
That's the whole crux of the issue: men cannot get pregnant.

There is no evidence that drug use and other things BEFORE conception puts a later developing unborn at risk for both MEN and WOMEN. What does become affected might be things like sperm count - or viability. And even then: embryos and sperm are pretty ****ing stubborn.
Well, AS...technically you're correct as far as men not getting pregnant (obviously). But Joko's point is that men who damage the DNA in their sperm...because of drug abuse/addiction can cause birth defects and fetal deaths. And there are many other possible ways men can have their sperm damaged that effect conception.

But the reality is...men are never scrutinized like women are regarding issues related to conception.

If a woman gets pregnant and is an addict, which is the cause of a damaged fetus...she's a horrible bitch that needs to go straight to hell. But men who ejaculate damaged sperm tha was damaged for the same reason and in all likelihood caused fetal damage....is never treated like women. Nobody ever points the finger at them for causing a birth defect, which resulted from their self-abuse.

Men are except from consequences related to causing harm to a fetus via drug abuse or other forms of preventable DNA damage or mutation of their sperm.
 

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If I ever have a daughter we are so sending her to lesbian softball camps. The world doesn't need any future generations. This thread is proof-positive civilization is doomed.
 

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Does being stupid and reproducing count as ~"damaging a fetus".

Like x 1000. That is exactly consistent with the OP's premise.
 

Removable Mind

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If I ever have a daughter we are so sending her to lesbian softball camps. The world doesn't need any future generations. This thread is proof-positive civilization is doomed.

So I assume you don't believe that men should get consequences for ejaculating damaged sperm caused by drug abuse...which causes a fetus to have a birth defect...or even causes fetal death in the womb?
 
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