Should immigrants have a path to citizenship?

[ttwtt78640]

If serving a prison term and then deportation keeps him from coming back, OK fine.


Agreed, now that the joke of border security has been replaced.

That still leaves overstaying ‘temporary’ visas as a means to increase the number of illegal aliens inside the US.

 

[bythoughts]

1. Marriage and family should be sacrosanct. Every American citizen should be entitled to preserve domestic life with a spouse and children in America, notwithstanding prior documentation or legal status.
2. There should be no explicit reward for illegal behavior. The 1986 amnesty set a terrible example. No one should have to prove that they violated the law in order to get citizenship.
3. Legal immigration should be increased and streamlined. Someone here posted an eye-opener from Cato Institute. The U.S. should not aspire to be a country shut off from the world - that denies the nature of America and the history of human migration. It also creates a massive demographic crisis (cf Social Security)
4. Existing illegals can have unofficial advantages from their position. For example, they may have married an American. They may have learned English and U.S. history. They may have obtained superior education or distinguished themselves in business. It is not wrong to allow illegals to take advantage of whatever intrinsic advantages, or even to write immigration criteria that make those pay off, provided they are still open to others who did not illegally enter.
5. The United States should stop trying to pretend that it is a secret who is a member. It should be possible for anyone, anywhere, having obtained positive identification of a citizen, resident, immigrant, tourist - anyone in the world - by their own independent means, to determine whether that person has a legal right to be in the U.S. right now. This should be possible to determine in well under one minute, not forty years! Basic data like whether a person is born, died, and what Social Security number has been issued should not be treated as a secret, nor should any bank be entitled to blame someone for letting that "secret" out. It can be bought for a small sum now on the internet.
6. The international institution of asylum has been broken from the outset. There should be an impartial, international mechanism to fairly determine who needs asylum. These persons should be settled in any country that offers to take them in. Countries that do not take in their fair share should be required by treaty to pony up enough money per capita from their population, that the countries that are willing can be bribed to accept all the asylum seekers that are certified. Asylum cases should be decided the same way no matter where the individual seeking asylum is physically located in the world. Feet on the ground should be no tenths of the law when it comes to whether a person has a right to asylum... let alone whether they entered at an "official" or "unofficial" crossing!

 

[eohrnberger]

That still leaves overstaying ‘temporary’ visas as a means to increase the number of illegal aliens inside the US.

Yes, there are always those, and they pose a much harder law to enforce.
Although, once found, deportation should be the results.
Those that have overstayed their ‘temporary’ visas made their own bed, and now have to deal with the consequences of their decisions.

I think they call this 'adulting' in the vernacular.

 

[stealthycat]

we have the best legal immigration system in the world - and illegally here people shouldn't be rewarded with citizenship

there is a difference in immigrants having a path to citizenship - which is what we've always had - and illegally here people being rewarded

 

[ColdHardTruth]

No. Should undocumented (unlicensed) drivers be able to operate motor vehicles on public roadways?

More baseless racism.

Just absolutely despicable.

 

[MAGAnificent]

WOW! Should be easy for you then to show some concrete examples of people who entered illegally and received all those benefits. Come on now. Don't be shy. Show us what you got.

As you wish:

While Seniors Struggle CA Gov Gavin Newsom Signs $2.8B Bailout Bill to Keep Giving Free Medicaid to Illegals - TFPP Wire

Gavin Newsom signs $2.8B bailout to cover free healthcare for illegal migrants as Medicaid costs explode. GOP calls for audit.

tfppwire.com

Migrants in New York City will receive prepaid debit cards, not credit cards, for designated goods

Missing context. The city is launching a pilot program that will provide migrants with prepaid debit cards to buy only food and baby supplies, according to a spokesperson for the mayor.

apnews.com

 

[quip]

no its literally what it is

illegally here people didn't like our system, they didn't like to wait, maybe they didn't like that they'd be rejected, ... whatever the reason it was more important to break laws

we can all use that self-justification

Again, this has been explained to you. Under similar circumstances you'd do the same thing. You've simply have the privileged benefit of continuing to ignore it.

tell me .... do you know how many illegally here people have criminal records? jobs? how many have stolen SS#'s or identify thefts, faked ID's .... you can google and daily you'll find news reports on illegally here people and crimes. Its DAILY

Subtract that against the productive ones.

 

[trixare4kids]

If serving a prison term and then deportation keeps him from coming back, OK fine.


Agreed, now that the joke of border security has been replaced.

No kidding! Under Biden, agents had to process, detain, or release migrants while still patrolling! They were the Jack of all trades.
Reports from the '23 House Oversight Committee suggest that in some sectors, up to 100% of agents were pulled from patrol to process large groups at times, leaving stretches of the border less monitored. This was verified by Border Patrol Chief Jason Owens, who noted that high amounts of border jumpers overwhelmed agents, while they attempted to evade them.

 

[Lord of Planar]

Well, first of all, it's against the law to do what the Trump administration. The government can't do tha.t

Second, it's just messed up. How would you like it if you or a member of your family, or your friend, or your girlfriend be sent to a prison despite not committing a crime worthy of imprisonment? That's not how our country works. The whole point of our country is to not have things like this happen to people. That's one of the reasons why we left the British Empire.



I don't agree with you. I don't even think I like you. But I don't want you to go to prison if you haven't committed a crime. I don't want the government to mistreat you. I can't fathom why you would wish that upon anyone else?



I have lots of ideas to mitigate illegal immigration, but I will say this. I don't agree that the illegal immigrants are bad people. They should not be treated like animals, and I do not believe the ends justify the means. And I do not think we face a situation so dire that we should abandon our core political and legal values such as due process.

I understand your viewpoint.

Still, nothing over all these years has stopped illegal immigration. The harsh treatment will give many pause to come here. It has come to this extreme because the left is unwilling to help stop the problem. I agree it is harsh and extreme, but nothing else has worked. So I am not going to speak out against what is happening.

 

[Lord of Planar]

literally everyday ........ this is who liberals fight hard to keep pouring across the border and living in the USA illegally

Illegal immigrant faces charges for spitting on ICE officer in Los Angeles: 'OK, you got me'

ICE arrests illegal immigrant Omar Pulido Bastida and charges him with spitting on an agent in Los Angeles. Bastida has a previous robbery conviction and has faced murder charges.

www.foxnews.com

Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) says an illegal immigrant with a past robbery conviction, and who was previously arrested on murder and assault charges, was arrested after spitting on an agent last Tuesday.

Omar Pulido Bastida, 41, is facing a federal assault charge for allegedly spitting on an ICE agent while they were trying to arrest him for illegally returning to the United States, as he’s been deported before.

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but spitting in someones face can be a felony assault. This is because of the various diseases that can be transferred.

 

[Tender Branson]

Only LEGAL immigrants should have a path to citizenship of course.

Legal immigrants, filling out the required paperwork, should not be the stupid ones ... while illegals think they can just sneak across the border.

All ILLEGAL immigrants should be found (wherever they are) and rigorously deported. Return to sender !

Either you enter the right way ... or not at all !

 

[Lord of Planar]

Only LEGAL immigrants should have a path to citizenship of course.

Legal immigrants, filling out the required paperwork, should not be the stupid ones ... while illegals think they can just sneak across the border.

All ILLEGAL immigrants should be found (wherever they are) and rigorously deported. Return to sender !

Either you enter the right way ... or not at all !

I think we should allow these lefties who want them to stay, to sponsor them. Pay their way and give them a legal status only if they have an advocate willing to incur any living and medical expenses to the individual as needed. Monitored to insure they are being used as low wage undocumented labor as well.

Let them pout their money where their mouth is.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Most of us are sons and daughters of immigrants.

Nonsense.

While the party would love it if over 50% of people in America were first generation, that certainly is not the case.

 

[Uncensored2008]

73% ??????

Once again we see that BlueSky Debate Politics is completely out of step with America. This is a far left echo chamber with no connection to reality.

 

[stealthycat]

Again, this has been explained to you. Under similar circumstances you'd do the same thing. You've simply have the privileged benefit of continuing to ignore it.

I know you want to self justify - I won't let you. Illegally coming to the USA is illegal. It shouldn't ever be condoned or allowed or tolerated

Many a US citizen has been raped, harmed, robbed, killed, victims of driving accidents etc because of illegally here people plus the massive costs to our health care, education and legal immigration system

Subtract that against the productive ones.

100% of the problems with illegally here people are because they're illegally here - that's 100% the problem and fault of them

 

[stealthycat]

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but spitting in someones face can be a felony assault. This is because of the various diseases that can be transferred.

not sure - just deport the guy to El Salvador and let the cards fall where they do imo

 

[rahl]

They should be given work visas as part of an expanded program that essentially allows anyone without a criminal history who can speak English and be productive to be permitted to come here and work, but only if it’s done as part of a bigger immigration reform package that secures the border, addresses birthright citizenship, and imposes stronger penalties for violations of immigration law.

This would require an amendment to the constitution.

 

[ttwtt78640]

This would require an amendment to the constitution.

Not necessarily, since the “assault weapon” ban didn’t. After all, no right is absolute.

 

[rahl]

Not necessarily, since the “assault weapon” ban didn’t. After all, no right is absolute.

Explicitly requires an amendment. The Supreme Court has already ruled on this. And the amendment is crystal clear.

 

[quip]

I know you want to self justify - I won't let you. Illegally coming to the USA is illegal. It shouldn't ever be condoned or allowed or tolerated

Many a US citizen has been raped, harmed, robbed, killed, victims of driving accidents etc because of illegally here people plus the massive costs to our health care, education and legal immigration system

Fear mongering once again. Though, they represent a short-term drain on our economic system, long-term they boost prosperity.

100% of the problems with illegally here people are because they're illegally here - that's 100% the problem and fault of them

Give us a convincing argument where you wouldn't illegally escape abject poverty, persecution or simply the financial opportunity to improve you and your family's situation. I'll wait.....

In the mean time... you're simply regurgitating a partisan, MAGA talking point by constructing a national crisis. (RE: ........."they're eating the cats and dawgs!")

 

[Uncensored2008]

More baseless racism.

Oh, it's racist to follow laws..

Just absolutely despicable.

Indeed.

 

[Uncensored2008]

As you wish:

While Seniors Struggle CA Gov Gavin Newsom Signs $2.8B Bailout Bill to Keep Giving Free Medicaid to Illegals - TFPP Wire

Gavin Newsom signs $2.8B bailout to cover free healthcare for illegal migrants as Medicaid costs explode. GOP calls for audit.

tfppwire.com

Migrants in New York City will receive prepaid debit cards, not credit cards, for designated goods

Missing context. The city is launching a pilot program that will provide migrants with prepaid debit cards to buy only food and baby supplies, according to a spokesperson for the mayor.

apnews.com

Well come on, seniors aren't going to vote democrat.

Newsom is investing in the party...

 

[stealthycat]

Fear mongering once again. Though, they represent a short-term drain on our economic system, long-term they boost prosperity.

• New York City: Has reportedly spent billions of dollars on migrant care, with some estimates reaching over $7 billion. Projections for future costs are as high as $10.5 billion by summer 2025. There have been significant expenses for housing, food, and healthcare, leading to projected budget cuts in various departments.
• Chicago: Leaders estimate the city spent nearly $434 million on food, shelter, and other services between July 2022 and July 2024. The city is facing a significant budget gap, partly due to migrant services.
• Denver: Incurred costs between $216 million and $340 million for various services from December 2022 to May 2024. The city council is implementing budget cuts, including from the police and fire departments, to address migrant-related costs.
• Washington, D.C.: Expected to have spent $36.4 million on various services for illegal immigrants by the end of FY 2023.
• El Paso, Los Angeles, and Philadelphia: Also struggling to provide services to newly-arrived illegal immigrants.

Map: Illegal immigration costs California most, $23B, all states $89B - Washington Examiner

Illegal immigration costs taxpayers in all 50 states a total of $89 billion, and California, where an illegal on Thursday was cleared of murdering Kate Steinle despite admitting to the shooting, pays the most at $23 billion, according to a new map of the costs. The website HowMuch.net, working...

www.washingtonexaminer.com

Give us a convincing argument where you wouldn't illegally escape abject poverty, persecution or simply the financial opportunity to improve you and your family's situation. I'll wait.....

I grew up generational poverty - I never wanted to leave the USA. But again, you are just justifying illegal. You would justify robberies too - anything can be justified right ? They want it, they need it, so they break laws to get it

In the mean time... you're simply regurgitating a partisan, MAGA talking point by constructing a national crisis. (RE: ........."they're eating the cats and dawgs!")

they do eat cats and dogs in Haiti .... I think we SHOULD eat cats and dogs in the USA right? just another protein right ?

 

[tharock220]

This would require an amendment to the constitution.

I understand that. I think that part of the 14th amendment needs to be repealed. Although it's really just a Supreme Court decision away from being reinterpreted, I would prefer things not be done that way.

 

[Lord of Planar]

I understand that. I think that part of the 14th amendment needs to be repealed. Although it's really just a Supreme Court decision away from being reinterpreted, I would prefer things not be done that way.

Using the purpose of the 14th, I would argue the it does not apply to anchor babies.