Should immigrants have a path to citizenship?

[rahl]

So are speeders. Do you have a point?

Yes. Illegal immigrants are illegal by definition. Rewarding their illegal behavior with citizenship is retarded.

 

[rahl]

I think you guys view them as being criminals on a day-to-day basis, but the crime they committed occurred once, when they entered.

I’m not claiming they are gang members, rapists etc. that’s right wing bullshit. I just don’t think rewarding them for illegally entering the country, with citizenship is in any way smart. It just encourages more illegal entry.

And it's a minor crime, a misdemeanor similar to trespassing.

On a day-to-day basis, most of them are just living regular lives, going to work, going to school, spending time with their families.

The way Trump supporters talk about illegal immigrants gives the impression Trump supporters view them as poorly as one would view a murderer. At the end of the day, the vast majority of them are ordinary people who are desperate for a job. They should not be treated as if they were "invaders" as Captain Adverse describes them.

 

[Gaius46]

Yes. Illegal immigrants are illegal by definition. Rewarding their illegal behavior with citizenship is retarded.

And speeders are illegal by definition. That statement is useless and to use your word retarded. It is meaningless.

We ignore illegal behavior all the time.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

I’m not claiming they are gang members, rapists etc. that’s right wing bullshit.

I know you're not, but that's exactly what some Trump supporters are claiming, and that's how they're justifying the refusal on the part of the Trump admin to send them to CECOT in El Salvador despite the fact most of them had no criminal record. That's how they're justifying the refusal to respect their due process rights. That's how they're justifying poor treatment in general.

 

[rahl]

And speeders are illegal by definition.

Non sequitur

That statement is useless and to use your word retarded. It is meaningless.

It’s a false equivalence.

We ignore illegal behavior all the time.

This is rewarding illegal behavior.

 

[quip]

that it costs $$$$$$$$$$$$ of US Taxpayer dollars for illegally here people ? that was your point ?

Been discussed.

I love my country. If it has problems I'm going to stay and be active and vote and work to fix them.

Read: Another comparison goes flat.

its not sudden and if Trump came here illegally he needs to be deported

That'd be Karma at it's finest.
Quite sudden as you seem to have no current problems with Trump's run-ins with the law or his current disregard for constitutional law.

 

[Gaius46]

Non sequitur

It’s a false equivalence.

This is rewarding illegal behavior.

Nope not a non sequitur. You seem enamored of the idea that since illegals are "by definition illegal" they need to be rounded up and removed. I'm just pointing out that the same is true of many of your fellow citizens and probably yourself. There is nothing special about pointing out that illegals are here illegally.

It's frankly an unthinking, lazy argument.

 

[rahl]

Nope not a non sequitur.

Textbook non sequitur.

You seem enamored of the idea that since illegals are "by definition illegal" they need to be rounded up and removed. I'm just pointing out that the same is true of many of your fellow citizens and probably yourself.

Citizens can’t be expelled from the country.

There is nothing special about pointing out that illegals are here illegally.

There is when you want to reward them for illegal behavior.

It's frankly an unthinking, lazy argument.

It’s objectively true they are by definition, not law abiding.

 

[stealthycat]

Been discussed.

Migrant influx pushing Mass. shelter costs past $1B in FY25: report

Massachusetts taxpayers are on course to spend $1 billion on the state’s emergency shelter program for FY25 with migrant families making up a significant share of those receiving assistance, according to a new report.

www.foxnews.com

Massachusetts taxpayers are on course to spend $1 billion on the state’s emergency shelter program for FY25 with migrant families making up a significant share of those receiving assistance, according to a new report.
Gov. Maura Healey’s administration has already spent $830 million so far in FY25 – which started on July 1 – accommodating more than 4,000 families who have been receiving taxpayer-funded shelter, food, education, legal aid and case management.
The costs work out at about $3,496 per week per family, or around $1,000 per person per week for the program, known as the Emergency Assistance (EA) system.


For comparison .... Approximately 25 million or 17% of taxpayers in the US earn less than $1,000 per week, according to Quora


If there were no illegally here people, all the above would pretty much go away and .... I thought they were all out in the field picking our fruits and veggies ???

That'd be Karma at it's finest.
Quite sudden as you seem to have no current problems with Trump's run-ins with the law or his current disregard for constitutional law.

Trump isn't here illegally - he was born a US citizen

 

[Gaius46]

Textbook non sequitur.

Citizens can’t be expelled from the country.

There is when you want to reward them for illegal behavior.

It’s objectively true they are by definition, not law abiding.

Ya might want to look up the meaning of
non sequitur. It means a conclusion that does not
follow from a preceding statement. I didn't make a conclusion I only pointed out a similarity.

Otherwise this argument is going nowhere and I have better things to do with my time. Your argument, such as it is, is totally unconvincing.

 

[MAGAnificent]

But none of this substantiates your claim that they are coming for these benefits.

It's certainly an incentive.

FWIW, I'm not for providing health care subsidies for undocumented immigrants at the expense of citizens or documented immigrants. But if the people of NY and CA are willing to foot the bill, it's their money and their business.

It's not the people of those two states that are willing. It's the idiot politicians.

 

[MAGAnificent]

He supports agricultural workers and condemns them on alternating days.

False.

 

[rahl]

Ya might want to look up the meaning of
non sequitur.

I know the meaning.

It means a conclusion that does not
follow from a preceding statement.

Right

I didn't make a conclusion I only pointed out a similarity.

lol

Otherwise this argument is going nowhere and I have better things to do with my time. Your argument, such as it is, is totally unconvincing.

Ok

 

[OLDBEN]

Many immigrants do not fully assimilate into American culture, as they primarily come seeking financial opportunities. We have welcomed numerous individuals who are hesitant to integrate into our society. It is time for other nations to stop taking advantage of American generosity and to show compassion toward those unwilling to learn our language. While they are quick to send support to fight for Ukraine, they should also consider opening their borders to accept millions of unvetted individuals into their own countries; I'm sure they can find the capacity.

 

[quip]

Migrant influx pushing Mass. shelter costs past $1B in FY25: report

Massachusetts taxpayers are on course to spend $1 billion on the state’s emergency shelter program for FY25 with migrant families making up a significant share of those receiving assistance, according to a new report.

www.foxnews.com

Massachusetts taxpayers are on course to spend $1 billion on the state’s emergency shelter program for FY25 with migrant families making up a significant share of those receiving assistance, according to a new report.
Gov. Maura Healey’s administration has already spent $830 million so far in FY25 – which started on July 1 – accommodating more than 4,000 families who have been receiving taxpayer-funded shelter, food, education, legal aid and case management.
The costs work out at about $3,496 per week per family, or around $1,000 per person per week for the program, known as the Emergency Assistance (EA) system.


For comparison .... Approximately 25 million or 17% of taxpayers in the US earn less than $1,000 per week, according to Quora


If there were no illegally here people, all the above would pretty much go away and .... I thought they were all out in the field picking our fruits and veggies ???

Yep, it'd just "go away"....no more fear of replacement. A virtual heaven on earth.

Trump isn't here illegally - he was born a US citizen

Complete with a silver spoon. I wonder who cleans his mansions?

Oh! We were talking about Trump's lawlessness you're conveniently avoiding.....

 

[mrdeltoid]

Trump has recognized that undocumented immigrants are important for several industries and has backed off arresting and deporting them. I would argue that there are a lot more industries that need these workers to operate effectively.

Those immigrants who haven't committed crimes and are productively employed - should they be allowed to remain and given a path to citizenship?

Your question "Should law abiding immigrants be given citizenship?" is misleading. It suggests the immigrant in question came here legally. No immigrant, legal or other, should be "given" citizenship. If you come here legally, there is already a pathway to citizenship. Perhaps we should increase the opportunities to immigrate here legally.

 

[stealthycat]

Yep, it'd just "go away"....no more fear of replacement. A virtual heaven on earth.

Complete with a silver spoon. I wonder who cleans his mansions?

Oh! We were talking about Trump's lawlessness you're conveniently avoiding.....

Trump has no citizenship "lawlessness" that I know of - if he did, show me

it literally IS the conversation you know - illegally here people

 

[JoeyJoystick]

Trump has done no such thing. And specifically what industries require undocumented immigrants????????

Hi,

Those industries where you do not want to work because the work is too hard and/or the pay is too low.

Legal immigrants gain citizenship in the US all the time All they have to do is go through the legal process. Illegal immigrants have by definition committed crimes.

For many, the only crime they committed is entering the country illegally. After they have filed for refugee status, they are often considered to be in the country in a form of “lawful presence” pending a decision, and therefore not illegal anymore. Their deportation is delayed while application approval is pending.


Joey

 

[JoeyJoystick]

Yes. Illegal immigrants are illegal by definition. Rewarding their illegal behavior with citizenship is retarded.

Hi Rahl,

Overthrowing every government in central America, followed by a long period of violence made people flee their country. Now it boggles my mind why the hell they would wanna go to your country in the first place, but since you carry some responsibility in all this as well, you could deal with it in slightly more humane manner. You spend money on bombs, why not try to spend a few dollars on schools for them? Maybe they would prefer to stay home after all? Getting my drift? Or are you yourself the one who is too retarded to comprehend this?

Joey

 

[MAGAnificent]

Those industries where you do not want to work because the work is too hard and/or the pay is too low.

BS. Americans are not afraid of hard work and the wages are only low because shitty employers seek to take advantage of very low wages the illegals are willing to work for.

For many, the only crime they committed is entering the country illegally. After they have filed for refugee status, they are often considered to be in the country in a form of “lawful presence” pending a decision, and therefore not illegal anymore. Their deportation is delayed while application approval is pending.

Again, BS. It is in no way, shape or form, legal presence, pending a decision. It was a rogue US Administration simply allowing it, fully taking advantage of the asylum court system getting overwhelmed, and with the knowledge that only a small fraction of them would ever show up for a court date, one to three years in the future and 85% would be turned down. It's called "gaming the system".

 

[quip]

Trump has no citizenship "lawlessness" that I know of - if he did, show me

it literally IS the conversation you know - illegally here people

Here's an interesting quote from our discussion history:

then anytime anyone breaks any laws because it benefits them and they don't want to do things legally ..... you're ok with that?


or do you cherry pick what laws can be broken and which cannot ? and if that's the case, you understand others can do the same, right ? for the same reasons

According to your depiction, Trump (chronically) fits this accusation quite well.

 

[holbritter]

Immigration attorneys cost a lot of of money and the visa caps are too low. It's not a practical, realistic option for the vast majority of people who migrate here. Not saying they should cut the line, but from the perspective of the illegal immigrant it makes absolutely no sense, especially if they are poor and have no skills, to do things properly. For the vast majority it's better to sneak over the border and risk being deported. You would do exactly the same thing if you were in their shoes.

Life isn't fair.

 

[JoeyJoystick]

BS. Americans are not afraid of hard work and the wages are only low because shitty employers seek to take advantage of very low wages the illegals are willing to work for.

Again, BS. It is in no way, shape or form, legal presence, pending a decision. It was a rogue US Administration simply allowing it, fully taking advantage of the asylum court system getting overwhelmed, and with the knowledge that only a small fraction of them would ever show up for a court date, one to three years in the future and 85% would be turned down. It's called "gaming the system".

Hi,

If they are here and are illegal and have never submitted any paperwork, than they should go. If those people have been given any kind of amnesty, than that should be respected.

Joey

 

[MAGAnificent]

If they are here and are illegal and have never submitted any paperwork, than they should go. If those people have been given any kind of amnesty, than that should be respected.

Being given a court date for an asylum hearing is not amnesty. The only illegals that have received amnesty are the 12 million or so that were granted amnesty by a failed comprehensive immigration bill signed into law during the Reagan Administration. I do not respect them; however, they are legal and not subject to deportation.

 

[stealthycat]

Here's an interesting quote from our discussion history:

According to your depiction, Trump (chronically) fits this accusation quite well.

I see your connection


So you are ok with people coming into the country illegally or staying illegally but you want to point finger at Trump because of his legal actions

You're saying its ok for illegals to do illegal things but its not ok for Trump to

AND

you think I'm saying its NOT ok to be here illegally but its OK for Trump to do illegal things



here is where you're wrong - I don't condone doing illegal things. For Trump's actions he was tried on court wasn't he? Fined? Held accountable for his actions? isn't that what we're doing with illegally here people? holding them accountable and deporting them for being here illegally ?