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Should immigrants have a path to citizenship?

Should law abiding immigrants be given citizenship?


  • Total voters
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Well, if that isn't some impressive, deflecting whataboutism! 😂

If memory serves both of us, not that long ago the right wouldn't shut up about the Dems red carpeting illegals - by the millions - across the boarder?

Now?
Whatever the current narrative requires eh? 😉

The fact IS your boy Trump's complete lack of character is all the motivation I need to despise him.... the very incentive for you to admire him.

Your slavish devotion to such a flagrant degenerate says more about you than anything I may convey.

well the difference is they were letting in millions and millions bolstering the numbers

Trump has secured the border and now REDUCING the numbers

but you already knew that
 
Bullshit, as usual.
Objective fact.
It doesn't matter who fills out the check and sends it to the tax department.

Ultimately the money comes out of the pocket of the tenant.

If you think property owners are eating the cost of property tax you should definitely not get into property rental. You'll lose your shirt.
Property owners pay property tax. Sorry.
 
There is no such thing as an undocumented immigrant. Immigrant is a legal status and some citizens are immigrants. Illegal aliens most certainly are not immigrants, and the only pathway for citizenship for them should be leave of your own accord, migrate legally and then apply for citizenship.
I will happily substitute the term, "undocumented migrant."
But someone who breaks the law to get into the country or breaks the law to stay in the country should absolutely not have a pathway to citizenship they don't respect our laws. We don't need more criminals are jails have vast swaths of criminals in them.
Not interested in your stupid argument that overstaying a visa is somehow equivalent to theft and murder.
 
I will happily substitute the term, "undocumented migrant."
Illegal alien is the term.
Not interested in your stupid argument that overstaying a visa is somehow equivalent to theft and murder.
Didn't say it was equivalent to theft and murder deportation isn't equivalent to a prison sentence.
 
Property owners pay the tax. Not illegals. That tenants pay rent has no bearing on the fact the property owner is paying the tax.
I'll try one last time, probably in vain. If property taxes jumped 100%, would tenants be affected or not? If it causes a snowball effect from the landlord to thetenant (residential or commercial), then yes we are all in effect paying for those higher property taxes. We may not all be writing the check to the government, but we are writing a check to the person writing the check.
 
well the difference is they were letting in millions and millions bolstering the numbers

Trump has secured the border and now REDUCING the numbers

but you already knew that
Oh....back to the virtues of Trump-world.🙄

Don't hurt yourself with those wandering gymnastics!
 
I'll try one last time, probably in vain. If property taxes jumped 100%, would tenants be affected or not? If it causes a snowball effect from the landlord to thetenant (residential or commercial), then yes we are all in effect paying for those higher property taxes. We may not all be writing the check to the government, but we are writing a check to the person writing the check.
It doesn’t matter how many times you insist on being wrong. Property owners pay property tax.
 
It doesn’t matter how many times you insist on being wrong. Property owners pay property tax.
Whatever. I see you still haven't acknowledged that the undocumented pay federal income taxes using an ITIN. Which is where all this started with your factually wrong assertion that they don't pay taxes.
 
Whatever. I see you still haven't acknowledged that the undocumented pay federal income taxes using an ITIN.
That's only if they're officially on the payroll. Part of the reason why people hire illegal aliens and digitally is because we can pay them under the table that's without notifying the federal government that they're being paid.
Which is where all this started with your factually wrong assertion that they don't pay taxes.
So explain to me why someone who violated the law to come here what automatically start obeying a loss to take home less money?
 
That's only if they're officially on the payroll. Part of the reason why people hire illegal aliens and digitally is because we can pay them under the table that's without notifying the federal government that they're being paid.
And yet these undocumented migrants pay billions in federal income taxes and tens of billions in Social Security taxes every year.
So explain to me why someone who violated the law to come here what automatically start obeying a loss to take home less money?
Because they're law-abiding and want to become respected, legitimate community members. They open a business, say in landscaping, and it's easier to be aboveboard and pay taxes than not to. It may screw with your priors, but that's the reality. Also, employers typically want employees documented.


The under-the-table, cash only employment economy for undocumented migrants is much smaller than the taxpaying one.
 
And yet these undocumented migrants pay billions in federal income taxes and tens of billions in Social Security taxes every year.
Prove it.
Because they're law-abiding and want to become respected, legitimate community members.
No they're not. If they were they would go back home and do it the legal way. It certainly wouldn't be upset with being deported.
The under-the-table, cash only employment economy for undocumented migrants is much smaller than the taxpaying one.
Prove it.
 
well the difference is they were letting in millions and millions bolstering the numbers

Trump has secured the border and now REDUCING the numbers
Both of these declarations are objectively untrue. Biden and Obama deported more than Trump. The GOP’s entire immigration policy is equal parts racism and theater.
 
Prove it.
It's cited in all the links I provided in several posts in this thread, including the one you are responding to.
No they're not. If they were they would go back home and do it the legal way. It certainly wouldn't be upset with being deported.
As I said, I know it contradicts your priors. You can stamp your feet all you like, but the facts don't lie.
Prove it.
See above.

Also, you hand-waving about, "they should just return home and reapply" is obtuse. Our immigration system is broken; the law as it stands demands far more of the immigration system than it provides resources for. Coming back could take years, and be incredibly disruptive. Of course they don't want to do that.

We tried to pass some comprehensive immigration reform under Biden, but Trump torpedoed it because he wanted the issue for the election and he claimed he could do better. So where is it? Where is the reform proposal? The GOP controls both the Congress and the Presidency and they're doing nothing beyond a draconian expulsion effort that has arbitrarily set targets (thanks to Miller) and has no thought out plan, makde in consultation with the affected industries. It's typical Trump, by the seat of his pants bullshit. It's not a way to govern and it isn't serious. It's all performative, without serious thought given to the economic and social impacts.
 
It's cited in all the links I provided in several posts in this thread, including the one you are responding to.
I doubt the claims in the link.
As I said, I know it contradicts your priors. You can stamp your feet all you like, but the facts don't lie.
Facts?
See above.
I doubt your link
Also, you hand-waving about, "they should just return home and reapply" is obtuse.
Your crap about illegal aliens being law abiding is laughable
Our immigration system is broken;
Because anybody can't just come here if they feel like it?
the law as it stands demands far more of the immigration system than it provides resources for. Coming back could take years, and be incredibly disruptive. Of course they don't want to do that.
Too bad.

We tried to pass some comprehensive immigration reform under Biden, but Trump torpedoed it because he wanted the issue for the election and he claimed he could do better.
Good glad Trump had supreme shadow power to stop the destruction of our nation.
So where is it? Where is the reform proposal?
Reform?
The GOP controls both the Congress and the Presidency and they're doing nothing beyond a draconian expulsion effort that has arbitrarily set targets (thanks to Miller) and has no thought out plan, makde in consultation with the affected industries.
Good
It's typical Trump, by the seat of his pants bullshit. It's not a way to govern and it isn't serious. It's all performative, without serious thought given to the economic and social impacts.
They said the same thing about the abolition of slavery.
 
I doubt the claims in the link.
Of course you do because they establish to be true what you don't want to believe is true (for whatever reason?), and you didn't actually click on the links to chase down the original IRS and other sources.

Not my problem if you are too lazy/insincere/closed-minded to learn anything new. So here's me not giving a ****.
Facts?

I doubt your link
Here's me not giving a further ****
Your crap about illegal aliens being law abiding is laughable
And yet the crime statistics show that they are. You cannot demonstrate otherwise.
Because anybody can't just come here if they feel like it?
No, because, as I said, Congress has not appropriated sufficient funding for the system to do the work demanded of it. This has been the case for years, which is why people have been waiting for their immigration court hearing sometimes for more than a decade.
Too bad.


Good glad Trump had supreme shadow power to stop the destruction of our nation.

Reform?
Yeah, reform.
Why good? Or are you just playing the gadfly as usual?
They said the same thing about the abolition of slavery.
Who said that? Provide a quote.
 
Of course you do because they establish to be true what you don't want to believe is true (for whatever reason?),
No it doesn't it's CNN. It's just claims, just like yours
and you didn't actually click on the links to chase down the original IRS and other sources.
The original IRS sores cannot account for all illegal aliens just the ones that have records on.
Not my problem if you are too lazy/insincere/closed-minded to learn anything new. So here's me not giving a ****.
It's called skepticism.
Here's me not giving a further ****
Why bother responding
And yet the crime statistics show that they are. You cannot demonstrate otherwise.
The statistics are 100% of illegal aliens are in violation of the law.
 
Both of these declarations are objectively untrue. Biden and Obama deported more than Trump. The GOP’s entire immigration policy is equal parts racism and theater.

they let in millions more, of course they deported more

that's the entire problem with a porous border - they keep pouring in faster than you can deport them

Trump has actually secured the border
 
Both of these declarations are objectively untrue. Biden and Obama deported more than Trump. The GOP’s entire immigration policy is equal parts racism and theater.

Perhaps, but they counted removals at the border as “deportations”, while allowing plenty to enter between ports of entry, thus resulting in a net gain.
 
Perhaps, but they counted removals at the border as “deportations”, while allowing plenty to enter between ports of entry, thus resulting in a net gain.
You have no proof of that other than Republicans keep saying it. I don't know why as an adult I need to accept your. made up nonsense as an "explainer" for the fact that Biden and Obama actually followed our immigration laws better and more effectively than Trump.
 
No they didn't.

you better have some links to show that

or a graph like this only showing Biden numbers low - go on, I dare you, find anything that shows Biden didn't open the border. You know day One of his presidency he made many border changes, right ?

1750682685377.webp
 
You have no proof of that other than Republicans keep saying it. I don't know why as an adult I need to accept your. made up nonsense as an "explainer" for the fact that Biden and Obama actually followed our immigration laws better and more effectively than Trump.

Nonsense.

The most recent enforcement figures released by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) on December 30 offer the latest evidence of these trends. Eighty-five percent of all removals and returns during fiscal year (FY) 2016 were of noncitizens who had recently crossed the U.S. border unlawfully. Of the remainder, who were removed from the U.S. interior, more than 90 percent had been convicted of what DHS defines as serious crimes.

Border apprehensions and removals increased in FY 2016 compared to the prior year, DHS reported. In FY 2016, DHS carried out 530,250 apprehensions and 344,354 removals, compared to 462,388 apprehensions and 333,341 removals a year earlier


Net gain (from border crossings) was 185,896 in FY 2016 and 129,074 in FY 2015.
 
Nonsense.




Net gain (from border crossings) was 185,896 in FY 2016 and 129,074 in FY 2015.
You're still presenting the gain as a Democratic strategy. And the composition of the gain is a mixture including asylum seekers. And gee, where are the millions and millions? All nonsense. Just the usual right wing need to hate brown people and pretend our economy doesn't depend on cheap labor.
 
you better have some links to show that

or a graph like this only showing Biden numbers low - go on, I dare you, find anything that shows Biden didn't open the border. You know day One of his presidency he made many border changes, right ?

View attachment 67576215
Your MS Paint graph that you don't link to because it comes from some shithole right wingw website is hilarious. You are asserting Biden literally opened our borders. Prove it. Show me the declarations that we've abandoned the southern border. Show me proof of the millions and millions who poured in. Y0u're making the accusation, it's on you to prove it. IT's not on me to disprove your bullshit conspiracy theories.
 
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