Should females who identify as men be put in prison with men?[W: 259]

[Slartibartfast]

Re: Should females who identify as men be put in prison with men?

I think it a worse problem with men...however..I knew a girl who got nicked for drug trafficking..it was women's prison..she came out covered in jailhouse tatoo's..and had been violated with a toilet brush by allegedly heterosexual women..

Ok so take this situation:
a man is a violent criminal and is prone to rape someone to show dominance or just get off. He is heterosexual and has a choice between raping a physical male or physical female, which would he choose?

The female obviously.

Who is less able to fight back?

The female obviously.

Which act is less likely to harm this person's social standing within the jail community?

The female obviously.

Etc.

This is why I find your question of "well doesn't rape happen anyway?" to be somewhat inane. To put mixed physical genders together in this environment is more likely to cause more rape than alternative arrangement, thus more harm is done.

Whether someone is happy in their own skin is a lesser consideration to whether violence if inflicted on them.

The best such a person could hopeful in a coed environment is that person becomes the consort of someone with a very social standing who would protect them for any number of favors. But that is pretty much rape too.

 

[NoC_T]

Re: Should females who identify as men be put in prison with men?

But if she purports to be a male...prefers to live her life as a male..dresses and looks like a male...so she suddenly decides she is a female..when she is sentenced to prison??

I know. It's a difficult one. I wouldn't like to be the guy who decides. That said, I couldn't, in good faith, condemn the individual to what I know beyond all doubt, would amount to a ceaseless litany of gang rapes, torture and beatings.

 

[NoC_T]

Re: Should females who identify as men be put in prison with men?

I agree. When I worked as an NP in two prisons, I was never unaccompanied by a male staff member. Thankfully. A mental health worker had been murdered by an inmate prior to my working there.

Unfortunately, I'm hardly surprised.

 

[Thrilla]

Re: Should females who identify as men be put in prison with men?

I haven't put much thought into this... but i would say , upon sentencing, you pull down the pants and say... wee-wees go over there... pee-pees go over there.

if the individual is obviously going to have a tough time in genpop ... they need to go to a different section of the prison...that could go for transgendered, really pretty men, lil weaklings, etc... lots of predators in prisons, so we need to be vigilant of not throwing obvious prey to them.

I think the state, if they are going to incarcerate a person, is going to have to do a much better job of providing a safe incarceration environment.... I'm not sure why we tolerate the animal houses that are prisons.

 

[Alyssa]

Re: Should females who identify as men be put in prison with men?

I haven't put much thought into this... but i would say , upon sentencing, you pull down the pants and say... wee-wees go over there... pee-pees go over there.

if the individual is obviously going to have a tough time in genpop ... they need to go to a different section of the prison...that could go for transgendered, really pretty men, lil weaklings, etc... lots of predators in prisons, so we need to be vigilant of not throwing obvious prey to them.

I think the state, if they are going to incarcerate a person, is going to have to do a much better job of providing a safe incarceration environment.... I'm not sure why we tolerate the animal houses that are prisons.

Agreed except in such cases where someone is convicted of a sex crime where children are concerned. Then I say let them be jail bait.

 

[TaraAnne]

Re: Should females who identify as men be put in prison with men?

I haven't put much thought into this... but i would say , upon sentencing, you pull down the pants and say... wee-wees go over there... pee-pees go over there.

if the individual is obviously going to have a tough time in genpop ... they need to go to a different section of the prison...that could go for transgendered, really pretty men, lil weaklings, etc... lots of predators in prisons, so we need to be vigilant of not throwing obvious prey to them.

I think the state, if they are going to incarcerate a person, is going to have to do a much better job of providing a safe incarceration environment.... I'm not sure why we tolerate the animal houses that are prisons.

Great gp ahead and do it that way. I am pretty sure whatever county, state, or federal prison does this they are lining themselves up for a violation of the 8th amendment. People here seem to be concerned with what is between a person legs defines their gender or sexuality. It doesnt, however to simple minded people who have no understanding of the subject it makes a difference. This asumption is very wrong and dangerous.

If a transexul choses to commit a crime they should do the time that is true. What prison they serve it in should be up to a judge and therapist. Keep the personal feeling and bigotry out of it.

 

[Heisenberg]

Re: Should females who identify as men be put in prison with men?

Your cantaloupe analogy doesnt work on any level and is one argument that is constantly used when dealing with trans related topics.

And trans people do stick to the identity they are born with. I assume you mean sex instead of identity though. So why should transsexuals stick to the sex they were born with? When your birth sex is causing you to be depressed and in many cases suicidal why should someone stick to their birth sex when transitioning from one sex to the other greatly improves their quality of life?

Sure, I have to be boring and just state the fact that I'm all for everyones right to do whatever with their sexual organs, to grow tits if you're a man, grow something similar to a penis if you're a woman, etc. It should be funded personally, it's not the governments business to help people restructuring their bodies the way they assume it should look like (breast implants go with that category). But, if you're born a man, you will be a man till you die - in my opinion, even if you invest tens or hundreds of thousand dollars to castrating yourself since it would "feel better". In legal terms you should also stay a man, for whatever reasons. That means - sticking to the topic of this thread - that you should spend time in prison in male lock-up, if that's your birth gender.

Further elaboration would be that I think people who want to "change their gender" are mentally challenged and looking for solutions where it's not to be found, and perhaps might be relieved temporarily when they get as they want. I'm no psychologist, but I assume they have a tendency to not accept their gender-roles they are born to adapt to. It's a struggle for everyone to adjust to what's expected of you since you are this or that gender, but that goes along with life. If society insists on you not being allowed to be angry if you're a woman, or sad if you're a man, then be sad or angry as much as you like, don't go carving, cutting up and stitching something that already functions properly.

 

[Omgitsme]

Re: Should females who identify as men be put in prison with men?

Sure, I have to be boring and just state the fact that I'm all for everyones right to do whatever with their sexual organs, to grow tits if you're a man, grow something similar to a penis if you're a woman, etc. It should be funded personally, it's not the governments business to help people restructuring their bodies the way they assume it should look like (breast implants go with that category). But, if you're born a man, you will be a man till you die - in my opinion, even if you invest tens or hundreds of thousand dollars to castrating yourself since it would "feel better". In legal terms you should also stay a man, for whatever reasons. That means - sticking to the topic of this thread - that you should spend time in prison in male lock-up, if that's your birth gender.

Further elaboration would be that I think people who want to "change their gender" are mentally challenged and looking for solutions where it's not to be found, and perhaps might be relieved temporarily when they get as they want. I'm no psychologist, but I assume they have a tendency to not accept their gender-roles they are born to adapt to. It's a struggle for everyone to adjust to what's expected of you since you are this or that gender, but that goes along with life. If society insists on you not being allowed to be angry if you're a woman, or sad if you're a man, then be sad or angry as much as you like, don't go carving, cutting up and stitching something that already functions properly.

Your right the government should not be funding someones transition from male to female. Not sure where that came from though.

I would argue that sex is something that can be changed however I really dont feel like getting into that so im not going to go there.

Your last paragraph has a lot of inaccuracies about transsexuals in it. For starters we are not mentally ill or mentally challenged period. Our gender identity just doesnt match our birth sex. And while we certainly dont know exactly what causes transsexuality and I agree that someone who is trans isnt going to accept their gender role that society expects them to but I would say that is just one of the effects of being transsexual and not the cause of transsexuality. We know that someone who is a transsexual has a brain that has many similarities to the brain of whatever sex they identify as and I would say that is the most likely reason someone is trans.

 

[Sig]

Re: Should females who identify as men be put in prison with men?

Females who identify as nymphomaniacs should be put in prison with men.​

 

[Thrilla]

Re: Should females who identify as men be put in prison with men?

Great gp ahead and do it that way. I am pretty sure whatever county, state, or federal prison does this they are lining themselves up for a violation of the 8th amendment. People here seem to be concerned with what is between a person legs defines their gender or sexuality. It doesnt, however to simple minded people who have no understanding of the subject it makes a difference. This asumption is very wrong and dangerous.

If a transexul choses to commit a crime they should do the time that is true. What prison they serve it in should be up to a judge and therapist. Keep the personal feeling and bigotry out of it.

bigotry?... what?

8th amendment?.. what?

explain yourself.

 

[TaraAnne]

Re: Should females who identify as men be put in prison with men?

bigotry?... what?

8th amendment?.. what?

explain yourself.

This type of case could hit the courts in the next couple of years

Bigotry where? I was just explaining that it is very dangerous to start defining gender with what is in between some ones legs! That is not bigotry that is stupidity of not knowing what one is talking about. That is nothing bad nor did I call anyone a bigot. Therapist and doctors understand what transsexuals go through and how they see themselves. Defining a person by what is between their legs in this case is very dangerous, if they look at the brain and the person that a totally different story
.
Sorry about my last post sent from the phone and any spelling errors evo suck

 

[Thrilla]

Re: Should females who identify as men be put in prison with men?

This type of case could hit the courts in the next couple of years

Bigotry where? I was just explaining that it is very dangerous to start defining gender with what is in between some ones legs! That is not bigotry that is stupidity of not knowing what one is talking about. That is nothing bad nor did I call anyone a bigot. Therapist and doctors understand what transsexuals go through and how they see themselves. Defining a person by what is between their legs in this case is very dangerous, if they look at the brain and the person that a totally different story
.
Sorry about my last post sent from the phone and any spelling errors evo suck

why do we need to consider what the inmates feels about themselves in regards to gender?

 

[TaraAnne]

Re: Should females who identify as men be put in prison with men?

why do we need to consider what the inmates feels about themselves in regards to gender?

You are not asking other inmates anything. I am saying if a transexual person has a documented history with therapist and doctors that consider them trans then they should go to the prison for the gender they want to be. Therapist and Doctors do not give this in a prescription form it may take months to years of therapy before they come to that conclusion.

 

[Omgitsme]

Re: Should females who identify as men be put in prison with men?

You are not asking other inmates anything. I am saying if a transexual person has a documented history with therapist and doctors that consider them trans then they should go to the prison for the gender they want to be. Therapist and Doctors do not give this in a prescription form it may take months to years of therapy before they come to that conclusion.

Personally I think someone should go to the prison of their legal sex and not just the sex they identify as.

 

[TaraAnne]

Re: Should females who identify as men be put in prison with men?

Personally I think someone should go to the prison of their legal sex and not just the sex they identify as.

Yes that when the 8th amendment may come into play. We had a discussion about this with a civil rights attorney and they were of the opinion if a case was brought this may apply. There is enough documented evidence that a transexual is not defined by what between their legs. This is scientific not moral, social, or any of the other tags one may place on it. Law may not even be able to define sex since in some cultures around the world there are several in a social group.

I am just womdering why people are so damned caught up with this. What differance would it make to you (or anyone) personally where they served their time? I am not trying to point fingers but now I am wondering. This doesnt effect anyones lives other than the person , the courts, and the facility that are involved. Unless we have some people who are fixing to go to prison and have some moral objection. I haz confusions nows thanks a mill

 

[nota bene]

Re: Should females who identify as men be put in prison with men?

why do we need to consider what the inmates feels about themselves in regards to gender?

Because being abused/beaten to death by others is cruel and unusual?

 

[Omgitsme]

Re: Should females who identify as men be put in prison with men?

Yes that when the 8th amendment may come into play. We had a discussion about this with a civil rights attorney and they were of the opinion if a case was brought this may apply. There is enough documented evidence that a transexual is not defined by what between their legs. This is scientific not moral, social, or any of the other tags one may place on it. Law may not even be able to define sex since in some cultures around the world there are several in a social group.

I am just womdering why people are so damned caught up with this. What differance would it make to you (or anyone) personally where they served their time? I am not trying to point fingers but now I am wondering. This doesnt effect anyones lives other than the person , the courts, and the facility that are involved. Unless we have some people who are fixing to go to prison and have some moral objection. I haz confusions nows thanks a mill

I wasnt talking about gender. I was talking about sex. Although I also dont understand why people would care so much about where someone goes to prison as long as they are going to prison.

 

[TaraAnne]

Re: Should females who identify as men be put in prison with men?

Because being abused/beaten to death by others is cruel and unusual?

Correct and this would be one of the outcomes. Just like some people who think having an abortion is cruel and unusual to a fetus.

I will say this most men I have run into are the direct opposite to the fears I have described. In prison that could be a different story. I have never been so I wouldnt now. However, there are plenty of straight men that I encounter daily that are attracted to transexuals. Its either a fetish, curiosity, or well they want to have sex. I am assuming the same standards would apply in prison. However, the problem comes when a transexual does not want to engage in sex that it become violent. That is the danger. Oh and by the way most of the men are married strange as that is!

 

[TaraAnne]

Re: Should females who identify as men be put in prison with men?

I wasnt talking about gender. I was talking about sex. Although I also dont understand why people would care so much about where someone goes to prison as long as they are going to prison.

I addressed it above I think. I caught you post but was trying to figure out a really blunt way of answering it without being personal and well there is no way around that.

 

[Omgitsme]

Re: Should females who identify as men be put in prison with men?

I addressed it above I think. I caught you post but was trying to figure out a really blunt way of answering it without being personal and well there is no way around that.

Well you said that the law cant define sex and that some cultures have several different sexes but thats not really true. Some cultures have several different genders but not sexes.

 

[Thrilla]

Re: Should females who identify as men be put in prison with men?

Because being abused/beaten to death by others is cruel and unusual?

i'm certain it is... even for the folks who are not transgendered.

 

[nota bene]

Re: Should females who identify as men be put in prison with men?

i'm certain it is... even for the folks who are not transgendered.

Oh, come on, Thrilla. We all know what's likely to happen to special "sub-populations" in prison. Actually, and I admit to ignorance here, my guess is that men presenting as women wouldn't have as tough a time in prison as men presenting as women would in a male prison. Just an uninformed guess.

 

[ksu_aviator]

Re: Should females who identify as men be put in prison with men?

Watching The Brandon Teena Story on Netflix after seeing Boys Don't Cry years ago, I noted that the officers that put Brandon in jail after he was arrested for forging checks, he was placed in the female section of the prison.

That made me wonder what the current thinking was amongst those in the transgender community...if jailed, should a biological female demand to be put in with males if they identify as males? If male, should they demand to be incarcerated with females because they identify as such?

As most communities will not have sufficient numbers of transgendered people to justify a whole wing reserved for them, it seems most sensible to put the suspects with those of their biological sex, or in solitary confinement for the sake of their safety. Brandon Teena would certainly have been abused physically if thrown in with the males.

But how far does the desire to be treated as male/female if born of the opposite sex really go? Would some transgender activist demand it?

Pull their pants down. Danglers with danglers. Slots with slots.

Done.

 

[TaraAnne]

Re: Should females who identify as men be put in prison with men?

Well you said that the law cant define sex and that some cultures have several different sexes but thats not really true. Some cultures have several different genders but not sexes.

Yeah just caught that sorry! Even I fumble that sometimes.

 

[Omgitsme]

Re: Should females who identify as men be put in prison with men?

Yeah just caught that sorry! Even I fumble that sometimes.

Its all good. Its a pretty common thing knowing they are normally used interchangeably.