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Should felons own guns?

johnsdad said:
Teacher

Glad you agree.

The guy is a real nice guy if you just met him, very well educated, pleasant etc. Family as we grew up was very nice, church going and both he and his brother were very active in student-body politics. On the outside, he was very normal.

But, he is one sick person. I had the occasion to meet a "shrink" that worked for the state and was involved in working with hard-core criminals that were being released back into society after lengthy prison stays exceeding 25 years.

In the discussion, the "molester" came up and he stated that essentially these people are never cured and only about 5-10% ever go straight. That he believed that those 5-10% were not actually cured, but were just smart enough to realize that they didn't like prison, so they went straight but were really not cured of their illness.

Jail is the best place and then a monitor on them for the rest of their lives when and if you ever let them out.

It's a sad story, but so is a much worse sad story for the parents, families, and the child if they are molested or worse.

Johnsdad
People such as this guy should never be turned loose on society again.
It is my personal opinion that pedophiles deserve the death penalty.
I have two stepdaughters who were molested by my wife's ex-husband.
They are now both in their 20's and still have to deal with emotional issues tied to them being molested when they were children.
This crime is in my opinion, worse than murder because the victims suffer for it forever.
 
Should felons be allowed to own firearms after serving their time?..........NO.

And I thought allowing them to vote was irresponsible! :shock:
 
Do I believe that ALL felons should be allowed to own guns? Certainly not. I believe that this issue should be decided on a case by case basis.
 
doing your time doesnt mean you buy all of your rights back. the precentage of repeat offender felons is too high to risk registering them a legal firearm. i say absolutely not.
 
I would say no its common sense really.

Especially if it was a gun related crime i don't really believe rehabilitation works 95% of the time.

I mean should pedophiles be allowed to be school teachers after they get out of prison.

Its OK saying they have paid there debt to society but isn't it better to take that temptation away from them i mean really i think you would be doing both them and the public a injustice by allowing them to posses a gun.
 
Arch Enemy said:
What if they were wrongfully accused? Our courts tend to convict the one's who didn't commit the crime; Mumia for example.

*rolls my eyes at the Mumia mention* Here we go again. A cop is dead, his family never able to see, speak, touch, hug, laugh cry.. etc.. but because Rage against the machine SWEARS (even though they 1) Did not live in Philly at the time the crime was committed 2) Never could provide a lick of evidence to back up their case) that he is innocent, I guess it must be so, huh?
 
vauge said:
LOL. :)

There is bow hunting as well. So again it comes to mind, which is worse killing bambi's mom with a gun or a bow? Should felons be allowed to own a bow? There are many folks that hunt bambi for food - some of which are friends I know. I personally do not, but dear chilli is hard to beat.

One of our mod's on this board does this, I believe. I betcha he will chime in shortly. He lives in a very rural area and actually hunts for his food. (It's still early and havn't had my Dr. Pepper yet, so I might be off.)

Deer bologna is AWESOME! I personally don't hunt.. cannot bring myself to put a gun into my hands. However... I believe hunting is good for 2 things... and I'm sorry if you don't agree. 1) Deer meat is good, and it lasts a long time. and 2) It does control the deer population. I live in Northern Lebanon County, where alot of people hunt, mostly on their own property. There aren't near as many deer vs vehicle accidents, nor are the forest areas over run with them. They are not starving.. there is plenty of vegetation growing to sustain the numbers. The buck and doe seasons are 1-2 weeks long (help me out cnredd if you're a hunter.. I don't do it.. so I'm not sure the length) and the limit is 2 of each. Many times, a hunter will bag none.. but some do get their limit.

At any rate.. Poaching is bad... hunting has a purpose. Think our ancestors just went to the grocery store to get their meat? Think the Indians did that? Come on... why negate someone the right to get their food the way our ancestors did, just because it would hurt poor bambi? If poor bambi is left unchecked.. it could be YOUR car bambi hits next time he runs out across the road to try and find vegetation to eat.

oh and vague.. my post isn't in response to you. I just read it and realized it was your post I quoted. I agree with you, by the way. I don't think felons should be allowed to own guns.
 
Whether Felons should have guns or not is a mute point. Illegal guns are available everywhere. People puchasing guns from people in newspaper are common. I am not a felon, but twice in my life I have purchased rifles from folks in Newspaper adds and they did not ask for ID, and neither did I. they only wanted Cash.

I was for years a Republican, since the AntiAmerican rightwing has been elected to the white house, I am good democrat.

I belong to a local rifle and pistol club and at the club house we buy, sell, and trade guns sometimes. Last year I traded a shot gun for a Colt Cowboy six shooter. I don't belong to the NRA any longer, I will be joining again soon. Yet I would not not vote for Bush if all other candidates for president miraculously died. Bush and Cheney are the greatest Liars in the whole world.

I have heard it said at our club house that stolen out of state guns are available if one wants to look. Since I am not interested in stolen guns. I won't give my address. Heck I don't want any sneaky rightwingers trying to take away my guns. I keep hearing trash about Democrats trying take away my guns. that is a lot Bushshit. :mrgreen:
 
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Since the war in Iraq was planned before 9/11, Bush, cheney, and Powell lied to the united nations Powell showed photos that were ten years old taken before the Gulf war. They lied about weapons of Mass Destruction, they have lied constantly about the economy. Jobs are still being transfered overseas to places like Taiwan and Indonesia at an alarming rate. Average pay for American workers is declining, everyday thousands more loose their medical care. Tax cuts were given to the Wealthy have not jumped started our economy, since this money is in overseas banks or Money invested overseas, and has nothing to do with our economy.

We have borrowed hundreds of billions of dollars from the central bank of China to fight the war in Iraq.

Statistic about pay and benefits given by the feds are make believe and do not jive with the same information given by the states. As long as the conservatives stay in power, we are on our way way to poverty and will become a third world country.

the stock market reflects the investments of Big corporations and the top 2 million richest in our nation. The rest of us as individuals have less than 3% of the total investment money. These are now rapidly changing to mainly investments in overseas manufacturing. Not American. Hell, Ford Motor Company is importing V6 engines for their SUV and small trucks from Honda in Japan. Michigan is full of empty buildings that use to make the great American Auto.

Everytime Bush talks, it is just spin and trash. His talks are designed to mislead, attack, and diversion in order to mislead. Bush and his cohorts are motivated purely by Greed and averice. do you ever watch aNews conference they are blatent misinformation designed to divert.

We don't even know who attacked the London underground. We could be seeing the first operations by Bush's gestapo fp as is to created in the war on terror. Private mercenaries loyal to Bush and the far out right, alone.

Has it ever occurred to you to ask if we are in a war on terror, which we should be, and we are constantly antagonizing Moslems, instead of gaining their trust and helping them to solve problems. Why have we cut funding for the US Border patrol? and the Coast Gaurd? Some folks say that solving problems is appeasing the terrorists. Solving problems is preventing terrorists coming in to being. Besides, do you really think it is better to be bombed gassed and murdered rather than solve the reasons for Terrorism? The Government speaks Weapons of mass destruction, and Nuclear weapons, and some folk would rather be nuked than solve problems? I am sorry but that is macho bushshit.

If we need to kill terrorists,, kill em, but don't create more to be killed next year.
We need to start promoting America, and its Economy. We need to get our troops out of Irag and start protecting America.

Heck you know all this as well as I do. You call me a liberal, but I am righteous loyal American. I am what the British call, The Loyal Opposition.
 
I believe that felons should be allowed to own guns. there is a provision in the law for relief of disabilities for a felon which is essentially a restoration of rights. Unfortunately for a felon congress has specificaly not given funding to the BATFE for this purpose. Luckily for someone that has been convicted of a felony in juvenile court, like myself, it does not preclude you from buying weapons once one turns eighteen and are discharged from the juvenile system.

Also to reply to an earlier comment in the majority of the states felons can vote w/ restrictions. For instance here in TX a felon can vote as long as he is not in prison and not on probation/parole. In one state in the NE the allow felons in prison to vote. Generally though a felon would be an uneducated blue collar worker and unlikely to vote in many, if any elections.
 
Gandhi>Bush said:
A gun doesn't protect someone. A bullet proof vest - you can make that case to protect someone. A gun does nothing but hurt people. You pull the trigger. A bullet comes out. That bullet is meant to harm and in most cases kill.

Felons should not be allowed to have these. I don't really think we should have these.

Maybe a handgun if your application is accepted to some sort of regulating agency. But assault rifles and shot guns... no one needs those to protect themselves.

But handguns account for 90% of all deaths.
Shotguns are perfect for home defense. Shot has a short range and wont enter your neighbors house. Also your aim doesn't have to be perfect and can be effective when you are fireing at an intruder while "shaking in your slippers"
 
Gandhi>Bush said:
A gun doesn't protect someone. A bullet proof vest - you can make that case to protect someone. A gun does nothing but hurt people. You pull the trigger. A bullet comes out. That bullet is meant to harm and in most cases kill.

With the many DGU's in this country every year, and over 200 million guns in private hands in this country, and the untold millions of rounds of ammunition sold in this country, it appears your opinions are unjustified.

Gandhi>Bush said:
Felons should not be allowed to have these. I don't really think we should have these.

Felons, probably not, but what reasoning can be used to keep firearms from the super majority who never have or never will commit a crime.

Gandhi>Bush said:
Maybe a handgun if your application is accepted to some sort of regulating agency. But assault rifles and shot guns... no one needs those to protect themselves.

There are many legitimate reasons for citizens to possess an array of firearms, and only one or two not so legitimate reasons to create yet another regulatory agency.

asmith555 said:
But handguns account for 90% of all deaths.
Shotguns are perfect for home defense. Shot has a short range and wont enter your neighbors house. Also your aim doesn't have to be perfect and can be effective when you are fireing at an intruder while "shaking in your slippers"

I am sure you meant 90% of gun deaths.
 
asmith555 said:
But handguns account for 90% of all deaths.
Shotguns are perfect for home defense. Shot has a short range and wont enter your neighbors house. Also your aim doesn't have to be perfect and can be effective when you are fireing at an intruder while "shaking in your slippers"

Good idea. Now try to hide your shotgun in your bedstand drawer.
 
lamaror said:
We don't even know who attacked the London underground. We could be seeing the first operations by Bush's gestapo fp as is to created in the war on terror. Private mercenaries loyal to Bush and the far out right, alone.

That is just precious. Call this number. 1-800-foi- lhat.
 
No becuase when they are arrested for a crime they sacrafice there rights becuase they are unwilling to take on the responsibleity of the laws. You do not get the privalige without the responsibleity.
 
debate_junkie said:
Deer bologna is AWESOME! I personally don't hunt.. cannot bring myself to put a gun into my hands. However... I believe hunting is good for 2 things... and I'm sorry if you don't agree. 1) Deer meat is good, and it lasts a long time. and 2) It does control the deer population. I live in Northern Lebanon County, where alot of people hunt, mostly on their own property. There aren't near as many deer vs vehicle accidents, nor are the forest areas over run with them. They are not starving.. there is plenty of vegetation growing to sustain the numbers. The buck and doe seasons are 1-2 weeks long (help me out cnredd if you're a hunter.. I don't do it.. so I'm not sure the length) and the limit is 2 of each. Many times, a hunter will bag none.. but some do get their limit.

At any rate.. Poaching is bad... hunting has a purpose. Think our ancestors just went to the grocery store to get their meat? Think the Indians did that? Come on... why negate someone the right to get their food the way our ancestors did, just because it would hurt poor bambi? If poor bambi is left unchecked.. it could be YOUR car bambi hits next time he runs out across the road to try and find vegetation to eat.

oh and vague.. my post isn't in response to you. I just read it and realized it was your post I quoted. I agree with you, by the way. I don't think felons should be allowed to own guns.

No, deer sausage is the best ever.

Neway, you don't let felons have guns for the same reason sex offenders have to register in their community, pedophiles have to remain a certain distance from children, etc. Its like someone tries to murder you one night, and the next week you go and spend the night at their house.
 
I believe I'm the only scary felon to reply to this question. Our forefathers wrote, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed". Pretty simple language, I don't see any wiggle room at all in that. Will we become more upset if the first amendment is denied to a certain section of our population because someone either elected or appointed decides a criminal act has been committed and uses mandatory sentencing to back their play? I was convicted through a plea in Federal court of one count of bank fraud, anyone familiar at all with the Federal system knows that their conviction rate is very high and pleas are the norm. The bank in question had a loss of $117,000.00 which I had completely repaid four months prior to being indicted, the president of this bank wrote letters to the court on my behalf. He called it a mistake on my part and certainly not criminal, the local county prosecutor wrote letters of the same kind, but to no avail. My judge told me he'd like to help but his hands were tied by the sentencing guidelines. I was never arrested, never cuffed and I've never been in any trouble besides this in my life, but I'm a class B felon, one step above rapists and murderers. The only felons who don't possess firearms are felons like myself who were never criminals to begin with, do we honestly think that a bank robber or a murderer with a prior felony conviction will stop and say, I'd rob that bank or I'd kill you, but damnit I can't posses a gun? I've also seen the voting issue for felons raised in this forum, voting is controlled by the states, in my home state of Missouri for instance, upon completion of probation the right to vote is restored.
 
It is actualy unconstitutional for them to say they cant. Its a right not a priveledge they can not take rights away.
 
It is incorrect to say they can't, because they do. They being the Congress of the United States. The response should be they shouldn't and We the People should say they will not. If you go back through all of the responses to this issue you will notice a lot of people's personal preferences. It is ok to not agree with hunting, I personally do hunt with a bow and primitive firearms which are allowed to be possesed by felons. A beautiful thing about this nation, in spite of it's many flaws, is that we can all believe as we will. We should not however legislate our beleifs on others, this country was built by people trying to escape that very thing. There are many things that other people do that I would never do and that I don't even like. Who am I to judge or deny them the right to do as they will as long as they are hurting no one, and who are they to deny me the same. The bottom line is that this issue is a prime example of politics controlling us. How many felons are there in this country who are no longer incarcerated, who have never hurt anyone and never would, who apparently are no longer full Americans. It's easy to circumvent the 2nd amendment, scream crime reduction and wave statistics at the American people and their in. If the time were ever taken to really explain not only the unconstitutionality of this law, but ineffectiveness of it, people's views would change. It is only effective in building stats by convicting people and incarcerating them for victimless crimes, ie. a guy writes a $500.00 bad check in 1985 and is convicted of a class D felony in Missouri, after a day of Quail hunting he's pulled over for speeding in 2005. He will be prosecuted in Federal court and do a minumum of eighteen months in Federal prison. I guess it also could be a secondary charge in a murder or robbery case and the government can add five years to a life sentence. I hope one day people will take notice, if this is so easy, which constitutional amendment is the next to be ignored?
 
Youve Got To Be Kidding! said:
It is actualy unconstitutional for them to say they cant. Its a right not a priveledge they can not take rights away.

To have the rights of a citizen you have to obey the laws, if you only get the reward why do we have laws. They forfit those rights when they brake our rules.
 
It is very intersting to me when people have this beleif that if you break the law in some way you forever forfeit civil rights. Would you feel the same if speeding became something that caused your civil rights to be revoked. It's "breaking the rules" isn't it. Our constitution does not say that if you break the law, or make a mistake, you are no longer an American in the fullest sense of the word. Punishment is handed down in a court of law, the punishment is to fit the crime and to be a length and severity as allowed by law based on the crime. To revoke some of a person's constitutional rights that are entirely unrelated to their mistake or crime if you will, amounts to cruel and unusual punishment. In this nation today, to become a felon is really not that hard, and those of you who so boldely say if you mess up you're S.O.L. should stop and reflect on your own life. Have you ever driven after a little too much to drink, when you were a kid did you push that car up over 100 hundred miles an hour, have you ever written a check for a little more than was in your account. If you can answer yes to these questions then you have committed a felony, you just weren't caught and convicted. This nation was built on forgiveness and second chances, yet we've forgotten that and become very self-righteous and punitive while keeping our own personal blinders on about our own behavior. I'm not saying that killers and rapists should be allowed to continue their path of evil, if you purposefully harm another in a haneous way then you should be locked for life. To be a felon is a very broad term, some rapists and child molesters are only classified as class C felons, yet Martha Stewart is a class B felon. Some of you out of a lack of understanding of the offense may think Martha deserves it, but come on, should Martha Stewart be denied the right to vote or to keep and bear arms? If you say yes, you've lost sight of the principles this nation was built on.
 
JoshuaR said:
It is very intersting to me when people have this beleif that if you break the law in some way you forever forfeit civil rights. Would you feel the same if speeding became something that caused your civil rights to be revoked. It's "breaking the rules" isn't it. Our constitution does not say that if you break the law, or make a mistake, you are no longer an American in the fullest sense of the word. Punishment is handed down in a court of law, the punishment is to fit the crime and to be a length and severity as allowed by law based on the crime. To revoke some of a person's constitutional rights that are entirely unrelated to their mistake or crime if you will, amounts to cruel and unusual punishment. In this nation today, to become a felon is really not that hard, and those of you who so boldely say if you mess up you're S.O.L. should stop and reflect on your own life. Have you ever driven after a little too much to drink, when you were a kid did you push that car up over 100 hundred miles an hour, have you ever written a check for a little more than was in your account. If you can answer yes to these questions then you have committed a felony, you just weren't caught and convicted. This nation was built on forgiveness and second chances, yet we've forgotten that and become very self-righteous and punitive while keeping our own personal blinders on about our own behavior. I'm not saying that killers and rapists should be allowed to continue their path of evil, if you purposefully harm another in a haneous way then you should be locked for life. To be a felon is a very broad term, some rapists and child molesters are only classified as class C felons, yet Martha Stewart is a class B felon. Some of you out of a lack of understanding of the offense may think Martha deserves it, but come on, should Martha Stewart be denied the right to vote or to keep and bear arms? If you say yes, you've lost sight of the principles this nation was built on.

You make a good point I dont know I guess they should be allowed guns but should have to register like child molesters
 
Thank You, and I agree about registering. I'm sure you've read in my previous posts that I have a felony conviction, and I have nothing to hide and I would gladly register. There is actually a law on the books that allows people to make application with the ATF to have their 2nd amendment rights restored after the ATF checks them out. Unfortunately the funding was taken away in 1993 by Congress and has not since been reinstated for the program. They say that it cost the government about $2,500.00 per application, I would gladly pay the money myself. I don't think it is the tax payers obligation to help me restore my civil rights for a mistake I made, it rests with me alone. Why will they not allow such a thing? Are they truly trying to protect society from dangerous people or simply maintain control? Does anyone think someone who would committ a crime with a firearm would go to the trouble of paying the ATF to research them and keep track of them? I don't think so and I think our government has an obligation to all of it's citizens, those who've erred and those who have not, and there is an easy solution. It will never happen however as long as so many people are unaware of how broad of a definition "felon" is.
 
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