Second Amendment Also Covers Those In US Illegally

[Deuce]

BS. Americans WILL do those menial jobs, just not as cheaply.

Free market at work.

 

[clownboy]

An individual sneaking across the border, busting their ass doing some menial suck job that neither you or I would ever take is displaying the American spirit all the way and tip of the chapeau to them.

Your very first part of the sentence shows this statement to be absolutely inane and inaccurate.

 

[Goshin]

Free market at work.

Perhaps. I am not one of those who supports an unregulated, lassiez-faire free market however. In its pure form, unregulated free markets tend to be excessively Darwinian and favor the rich over the poor, and I have long held that some degree of balance is required to moderate the free market.

A lot of things can be done ILLEGALLY cheaper than legally.

 

[Deuce]

Perhaps. I am not one of those who supports an unregulated, lassiez-faire free market however. In its pure form, unregulated free markets tend to be excessively Darwinian and favor the rich over the poor, and I have long held that some degree of balance is required to moderate the free market.

A lot of things can be done ILLEGALLY cheaper than legally.

Raising minimum wage it is!

 

[jamesrage]

I believe the other Courts that came up with the opposite finding focused on your last sentence. If a person is here illegally, then they broke a law. Current law dictates that those with a criminal record cannot own a firearm. Given the division in the appeals Courts, this could end up in SCOTUS.

Does the 2nd amendment make such a distinction? No it does not, so the supreme court is wrong.Unless there is some 18th century definition of people meaning citizens or law abiding citizens then the 2nd amendment does not ban any group of people from owning a firearm and bans that do are blatantly unconstitutional.

 

[natsb]

Does the 2nd amendment make such a distinction? No it does not, so the supreme court is wrong.Unless there is some 18th century definition of people meaning citizens or law abiding citizens then the 2nd amendment does not ban any group of people from owning a firearm and bans that do are blatantly unconstitutional.

I'm with you 100%. I was referring to current ATF regulations, and what it takes to pass a NICS background check. Despite the 2nd, there are still a lot of rules applied to its implementation. It does make me wonder why the same folks that support 2nd Amendment restrictions, go batty over the idea of placing restrictions on the 14th.

 

[joG]

Court: Second Amendment Also Covers Those in US Illegally - ABC News

I am curious if those on the left are happy about this, or does it cause some conflict?

I is true. The decision is cool.

 

[mbig]

The ice cream scoop kid at your local Dairy Queen isn't going to take a job pounding bolts into cattle skulls, especially with the wage that ConAgra foods is willing to pay for performing
that task, Ever, those days are long gone. Our natives will never do those jobs.

um..
we had plenty of butchering and meat processing BEFORE Illegals showed up en masse.
We just had to pay someone a market wage to do it.

Only highlighting one of the biggest problems with illegals...
Depressing Real market wages.

We wouldn't need $15 an hour Min wage laws if not for ILLEGALS taking jobs for $5 that would otherwise pay 15-20 an hour.

College students and close-to-the-edge retirees (BLS 'discouraged') could be working in all the stores near me for 15-20 instead of $5 illegals, who everyone else pays the real cost for, when they put their kids in school and show up at the emergency room for healthcare.
iow...
If you're not using/Abusing them, you're Paying for them.

IOW, We'd have a Fairer system, and a little more inflation for paying... ourselves... more.
First we export Blue collar jobs, then to add insult to injury, we import cheap labor.
Who's really 'liberal'/for the Middle class?

 

[Deuce]

um..
we had plenty of butchering and meat processing BEFORE Illegals showed up en masse.
We just had to pay someone a market wage to do it.

Only highlighting one of the biggest problems with illegals...
Depressing Real market wages.

We wouldn't need $15 an hour Min wage laws if not for ILLEGALS taking jobs for $5 that would otherwise pay 15-20 an hour.

College students and close-to-the-edge retirees (BLS 'discouraged') could be working in all the stores near me for 15-20 instead of $5 illegals, who everyone else pays the real cost for, when they put their kids in school and show up at the emergency room for healthcare.
iow...
If you're not using/Abusing them, you're Paying for them.

IOW, We'd have a Fairer system, and a little more inflation for paying... ourselves... more.
First we export Blue collar jobs, then to add insult to injury, we import cheap labor.
Who's really 'liberal'/for the Middle class?

The idea that entry-level jobs would just jump to $15/hour without illegal immigrants is ludicrous.

 

[mbig]

The idea that entry-level jobs would just jump to $15/hour without illegal immigrants is ludicrous.

1. Nice EMPTY claim..
2. Obviously these weren't just entry jobs.
ie, Walmarters avg 12.50 an hour.

Carpentry jobs with wages 2-3x that, are being taken by illegals under $10 an hour too.
(I was just in a hotel whose whole reno crew, except the boss, were illegals)
Renos in a condo I just bought in Fl, also being done by illegals so GC/contractor makes much more

Getting rid of illegals would Dramatically tighten the labor market even IN entry level jobs.
See what college kids/your niece/ wants to wash dishes in a diner... instead of illegals.

3. The Lack of a flood of menial labor would drastically tighten the labor market
There might even be a shortage of menial/entry workers!
ALL the store jobs in my neighborhood in Manhattan are taken by illegals. 'Greek?' Diner waiter/cook/cashier, Dry-Cleaning workers, and cashiers; 'Japanese' bake shop now just hires super-cheap illegals. etc, etc.

4, You didn't answer the rest of my post's points about their real costs, etc.

 

[Deuce]

1. Nice EMPTY claim..
2. Obviously these weren't just entry jobs.
ie, Walmarters avg 12.50 an hour.

Carpentry jobs with wages 2-3x that, are being taken by illegals under $10 an hour too.
(I was just in a hotel whose whole reno crew, except the boss, were illegals)

Getting rid of illegals would Dramatically tighten the labor market even IN entry level jobs.
See what college kids/your niece/ wants to wash dishes in a diner... instead of illegals.

3. The Lack of a flood of menial labor would drastically tighten the labor market
There might even be a shortage of menial/entry workers!

Speaking of empty claims...

 

[dpcal]

um..
we had plenty of butchering and meat processing BEFORE Illegals showed up en masse.
We just had to pay someone a market wage to do it.

Only highlighting one of the biggest problems with illegals...
Depressing Real market wages.

We wouldn't need $15 an hour Min wage laws if not for ILLEGALS taking jobs for $5 that would otherwise pay 15-20 an hour.

College students and close-to-the-edge retirees (BLS 'discouraged') could be working in all the stores near me for 15-20 instead of $5 illegals, who everyone else pays the real cost for, when they put their kids in school and show up at the emergency room for healthcare.
iow...
If you're not using/Abusing them, you're Paying for them.

IOW, We'd have a Fairer system, and a little more inflation for paying... ourselves... more.
First we export Blue collar jobs, then to add insult to injury, we import cheap labor.
Who's really 'liberal'/for the Middle class?

Ignoring whether there would be enough political support on the republican side to send all illegals home, what would the employment market look like if there were no illegals. What would it take to hire US citizens to pick fruits and vegetables? $15-$20 per hour would be my guess with a lot better working conditions.

 

[Goshin]

Ignoring whether there would be enough political support on the republican side to send all illegals home, what would the employment market look like if there were no illegals. What would it take to hire US citizens to pick fruits and vegetables? $15-$20 per hour would be my guess with a lot better working conditions.

In the 1980s I worked for a local farmer in the summertime. His entire picking and packing crew consisted of American citizens.

Most of us made around $3-4 /hr. In modern terms that is probably $7-9/hr.

Lots of farmers using migrant labor because it is cheaper yes... but is there any reason Americans can't or won't do those jobs, when they used to do them just 30 years ago?

 

[mbig]

Ignoring whether there would be enough political support on the republican side to send all illegals home, what would the employment market look like if there were no illegals. What would it take to hire US citizens to pick fruits and vegetables? $15-$20 per hour would be my guess with a lot better working conditions.

There would be NO illegals in my USA.
But We could, as we have for a century, allow TEMPORARY NON-Citizen workers in for Seasonal harvest jobs only.
No welfare, No social security, no family along, no birth-citizenship for non-citizens.
That's it.
(Some of Europe has/has been forced into, a temp migrant worker system so some will never become citizens, and never receive benefits, after their countries got abused for decades. NO Birthright citizenship in any developed country Except the USA and canada.
All of Europe Repealed or never had it.)

e-Verify
e-Verify
e-Verify

No national ID, no Job.
No wall needed.
No more "we can't arrest 11 million" EXCUSE needed.
Sanctions (fines/jail) on employERs of illegals.
No Jobs/moola, No illegals.
They walk home.

 

[dpcal]

While I realize the US would virtually stop producing fresh fruits and vegetables, the question is why are we as a society subsidizing the growers, by picking up the tab for medical care etc for either illegals or in your example seasonal workers. I know the growers/stockholders appreciate the taxpayer's generosity.

 

[Chomsky]

An individual sneaking across the border, busting their ass doing some menial suck job that neither you or I would ever take is displaying the American spirit all the way and tip of the chapeau to them.

They "display their American spirit" by breaking immigration laws to surreptitiously and illegally enter our nation?

Total B.S.

One 'shows' their American spirit by buying into American dreams & aspirations and becoming a law abiding citizen! Not by breaking our laws and becoming an outlaw!

Your statement above has to be the most asinine thing I've heard in a long time.

Which sucks, because I otherwise very often agree with you.

 

[Montecresto]

Doesn't the right have the mindset that more guns make the world a better and safer place? How does an individual with a gun that has an official document make us safer, as opposed to an individual with a gun without official documents?

Criminals with a gun is the difference, we bar them from gun ownership/possession. I don't know if the crime of crossing our borders illegally is a felony or not though.

 

[Montecresto]

Your very first part of the sentence shows this statement to be absolutely inane and inaccurate.

Rather trivialises the crime.

 

[Moot]

They "display their American spirit" by breaking immigration laws to surreptitiously and illegally enter our nation?

Total B.S.

One 'shows' their American spirit by buying into American dreams & aspirations and becoming a law abiding citizen! Not by breaking our laws and becoming an outlaw!

Your statement above has to be the most asinine thing I've heard in a long time.

Which sucks, because I otherwise very often agree with you.

What, you mean don't think immigrants risking everything including their lives to cross the border just to clean toilets and pick fruit is the American dream? lol

Once across the border most illegals do follow the laws and become good law abiding, tax paying, non-citizens mainly because they want to stay here and not get deported.

 

[Kal'Stang]

An individual sneaking across the border, busting their ass doing some menial suck job that neither you or I would ever take is displaying the American spirit all the way and tip of the chapeau to them.

I always laugh when I see someone state this. Because I've done every single "menial" job that so many pro-illegals state that Americans won't do. From working in the fields to construction to janitor and house cleaning and digging ditches, and many more.

 

[Kal'Stang]

The ice cream scoop kid at your local Dairy Queen isn't going to take a job pounding bolts into cattle skulls, especially with the wage that ConAgra foods is willing to pay for performing
that task, Ever, those days are long gone. Our natives will never do those jobs.

Really? I'd take it. Link

 

[Kal'Stang]

Court: Second Amendment Also Covers Those in US Illegally - ABC News

I am curious if those on the left are happy about this, or does it cause some conflict?

I personally believe that the BoR's applies to everyone in the entire world as far as our government should be concerned. HOWEVER, our courts have already previously determined that this is not so. It is because of this that agencies like the CIA and NSA do not need warrants to spy on people in other countries. They just need warrants to spy on American Citizens. So, going by SCOTUS the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals is wrong. But imo going by what I believe are Rights, they are correct.

 

[Kal'Stang]

What, you mean don't think immigrants risking everything including their lives to cross the border just to clean toilets and pick fruit is the American dream? lol

Once across the border most illegals do follow the laws and become good law abiding, tax paying, non-citizens mainly because they want to stay here and not get deported.

Incorrect. Many illegal aliens that at the very least don't get ITIN's are in fact still breaking the law. Federal laws like fraud to be exact. They either use forged documents to get jobs or use stolen identities that they buy off the black market to get jobs. Many of those stolen identities belong to children.

Children are prime targets. In Arizona, it is estimated that over one million children are victims of identity theft. In Utah, 1,626 companies were found to be paying wages to the SSNs of children on public assistance under the age of 13. These individuals suffer very real and very serious consequences in their lives.

Illegal, but Not Undocumented

No, once across the border most illegals continue to break our laws.

 

[Kal'Stang]

Criminals with a gun is the difference, we bar them from gun ownership/possession. I don't know if the crime of crossing our borders illegally is a felony or not though.

Technically the first time they cross the border illegally it is only a misdemeanor, the second time however it is a felony.

 

[upsideguy]

People of every nationality and color are crossing the border illegally. Why are you fixated on brown people? Do you have something against the others, that they are the only ones that should be deported?

For the record, about half of the "illegals" did not cross the border illegally. They presented passports, visas and cleared customs. They just didn't go home when their visas expired.

Myths and facts about immigration to the United States - RationalWiki

Not only that, the number of illegals has actually declined over the past four years.

5 facts about illegal immigration in the U.S. | Pew Research Center
U.S. Unauthorized Immigration Population Trends, 1990-2012 | Pew Research Center

There really isn't a real problem here, just a perceived problem. It the perceived problem exists because politicians like to appeal to innate nationalistic and racist tendencies of the electorate...... politicians love a good enemy that they can use to stir up the low information voter....right now, no one has mastered this tactic better than Trump.

Our irrational fear the Mexican illegal is "Canadian Bacon."