Russia Pulls Out of Nuclear Treaty in ‘Symmetrical’ Response to U.S. Move

[smallvoice]

#notmypresident

When did you renounce your citizenship?

 

[smallvoice]

If you lived through it and "spent a career with your finger near the launch button" as you claim, then your position that this is no big deal doesn't work unless you don't have access to basic human emotions or survival instincts.

And you would be wrong again. Terror does not improve your position.

 

[Phys251]

When did you renounce your citizenship?

I'm not the one whose president is in bed with the Kremlin.

 

[iguanaman]

Trump has just made the world an objectively more dangerous place. The speed with which Russia exited the INF treaty and moved to create new, previously banned weapons strongly suggests that this was at least one of the topics that Putin and Trump discussed in private.

There's no putting the genie back into this bottle. The new nuclear arms race has begun and no future Congress or President can stop it.



https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/02/world/europe/russia-inf-treaty.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

Yet another example of Trump making Russia great again. Russia is a 3rd world country economically with a dwindling population and no viable assets except their fossil fuels and nuclear arsenal. Putin's dream of reviving the cold war where Russia like the USSR before it are considered equal and opposite to the US is now being realized. His sights are now on Europe and with Trump's help NATO is in disarray and the E.U. is threatened.

 

[smallvoice]

I'm not the one whose president is in bed with the Kremlin.

Me either, so who is it? A little proof, which you libbies have a hard time finding and using, would go a long way in keeping you folks from looking butthurt.

 

[Phys251]

Me either, so who is it?

So you are willing to stand against tRump?

 

[Cardinal]

If I'm not mistaken I remember hearing that Putin would still be open to a treaty, but they wouldn't be the initiators; what that means realistically is another thing because this is a pretty convenient response to dodge accountability. I can understand the rationale of pulling out of treaties where signatories are not meeting the conditions, but I think sticking to it and trying to negotiate should have been the first step versus just pulling out of it. The EU response will be interesting in a time where there's less trust in the US being an active deterrent to Russia.

Before, the dilemma was whether Russia was secretly testing intermediate range delivery systems. After today, the dilemma will be the fleet of intermediate range nuclear missiles that Russia will be openly manufacturing and placing in close proximity to their targets, where they will raise tensions as well as the possibility that they'll be used.

The former was bad. The latter is worse. Diluting this development into "Well they didn't hold up their end of the bargain so we can dissolve the treaty" is completely one dimensional.

 

[Phys251]

Yet another example of Trump making Russia great again. Russia is a 3rd world country economically with a dwindling population and no viable assets except their fossil fuels and nuclear arsenal. Putin's dream of reviving the cold war is now being realized.

If Tom Clancy had tried to write a story like this, the publisher would have laughed him out of the office. No way in hell the President of the United States would ever let himself be compromised by Russia, right? ...right??

 

[smallvoice]

So you are willing to stand against tRump?

Who is that?

 

[iguanaman]

Me either, so who is it? A little proof, which you libbies have a hard time finding and using, would go a long way in keeping you folks from looking butthurt.

Putin’s return on investment from Trump’s presidency has been significant.

Here are ten ways that Putin has received his payout:

Putin’s Goal: Weaken and divide the transatlantic alliance.
Putin’s Payout: Trump undermines US relationships with European allies and calls the US’s commitment to NATO into question.
Putin’s Goal: Degrade the European Union and foster pro-Russian political movements.
Putin’s Payout: Trump attacks the EU and actively supports anti-EU, Kremlin-backed parties.
Putin’s Goal: Disrupt American leadership of the global economic order.
Putin’s Payout: Trump is eagerly pushing for an all-out trade war with Europe.
Putin’s Goal: Build global resentment and distrust towards the US and stoke anti-American sentiment.
Putin’s Payout: America’s closest allies are explicitly suspicious and distrusting of the US because of Trump’s rhetoric and actions.
Putin’s Goal: Relieve economic and domestic political pressure from US sanctions on Russia.
Putin’s Payout: Trump tries to roll back, impede, and blunt the impact of sanctions at every step.
Putin’s Goal: Legitimize his regime in the eyes of the world.
Putin’s Payout: Trump repeatedly praises and defends Putin, lending the weight of the US presidency providing validation towards Putin’s cause.
Putin’s Goal: Revive Russia’s status as a great power and gain international recognition for its illegal seizure of Crimea.
Putin’s Payout: Trump publicly says that Crimea is part of Russia and calls for Russia to be welcomed back into the international community with no concessions.
Putin’s Goal: Continue to sow discord in Western democracies and avoid repercussions for interfering in US and European elections.
Putin’s Payout: Trump dismisses Russian interference and has done nothing to prevent future interference, putting him at odds with his own intelligence community.
Putin’s Goal: Soften America’s adversarial stance toward Russia.
Putin’s Payout: Trump is shifting the Republican Party’s generations-long hawkish views on Russia.
Putin’s Goal: Destabilize the US from within.
Putin’s Payout: Trump attacks US institutions while driving divisive politics and eroding democratic norms.
The pattern is clear: Putin has received—and continues to receive—a good payout on his investment.

https://themoscowproject.org/reports/putins-payout-10-ways-trump-has-supported-putins-foreign-policy-agenda/

 

[MTAtech]

Every bilateral treaty is only valuable as long as it is in the best interests of both parties. In that, Trump pulling out of the treaty can't be faulted, since Putin was violating the treaty.

I am very concerned as to why Putin thinks it is necessary to build intermediate nuclear missiles. The threat to Western Europe is obvious. It's also why NATO is so important. NATO requires that an attack on one NATO member is equivalent to an attack on every NATO member, subject to a retaliatory response. Thus, if Europe is attacked by Russia with nuclear weapons, the U.S. is bound to retaliate against Russia. That knowledge has provided peace for three generations.

Now, this begs certain questions. Did Trump promise Putin in his private meetings that the U.S. would not defend Europe if Russia attacked?

 

[Rogue Valley]

Every bilateral treaty is only valuable as long as it is in the best interests of both parties. In that, Trump pulling out of the treaty can't be faulted, since Putin was violating the treaty.

Precisely. From the Russian enclave of Kaliningrad, such INF material-breach cruise-missiles can target 5 NATO capitols at a minimum.

The NATO SM-3 Interceptors located in Poland and Romania are only a viable defense against ballistic missiles, not cruise missiles.

This didn't suddenly happen. I've posted on this topic previously in the Europe Forum.

 

[Cardinal]

Every bilateral treaty is only valuable as long as it is in the best interests of both parties. In that, Trump pulling out of the treaty can't be faulted, since Putin was violating the treaty.

I am very concerned as to why Putin thinks it is necessary to build intermediate nuclear missiles. The threat to Western Europe is obvious. It's also why NATO is so important. NATO requires that an attack on one NATO member is equivalent to an attack on every NATO member, subject to a retaliatory response. Thus, if Europe is attacked by Russia with nuclear weapons, the U.S. is bound to retaliate against Russia. That knowledge has provided peace for three generations.

Now, this begs certain questions. Did Trump promise Putin in his private meetings that the U.S. would not defend Europe if Russia attacked?

Precisely. From the Russian enclave of Kaliningrad, such INF material-breach cruise-missiles can target 5 NATO capitols at a minimum.

The NATO SM-3 Interceptors located in Poland and Romania are only a viable defense against ballistic missiles, not cruise missiles.

This didn't suddenly happen. I've posted on this topic previously in the Europe Forum.

Testing intermediate range missiles as delivery systems for nuclear weapons is bad. Now they can openly manufacture a fleet of them and place them where they will raise tensions to 1980's levels is so much worse.

This view that the INF treaty should be abandoned because one side was cheating is fantastically near-sighted.

 

[smallvoice]

https://themoscowproject.org/reports/putins-payout-10-ways-trump-has-supported-putins-foreign-policy-agenda/

Weak, and still butthurt. AND paranoid.

 

[Skeptic Bob]

awesome

 

[Helix]

Trump has just made the world an objectively more dangerous place. The speed with which Russia exited the INF treaty and moved to create new, previously banned weapons strongly suggests that this was at least one of the topics that Putin and Trump discussed in private.

There's no putting the genie back into this bottle. The new nuclear arms race has begun and no future Congress or President can stop it.



https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/02/world/europe/russia-inf-treaty.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

It couldn't be more obvious what happened here.

 

[iguanaman]

Weak, and still butthurt. AND paranoid.

So you are pro-Russia like Trump then. Why do you want to support and empower our sworn enemy? Got tired of the U.S. being #1?

 

[iguanaman]

Every bilateral treaty is only valuable as long as it is in the best interests of both parties. In that, Trump pulling out of the treaty can't be faulted, since Putin was violating the treaty.

I am very concerned as to why Putin thinks it is necessary to build intermediate nuclear missiles. The threat to Western Europe is obvious. It's also why NATO is so important. NATO requires that an attack on one NATO member is equivalent to an attack on every NATO member, subject to a retaliatory response. Thus, if Europe is attacked by Russia with nuclear weapons, the U.S. is bound to retaliate against Russia. That knowledge has provided peace for three generations.

Now, this begs certain questions. Did Trump promise Putin in his private meetings that the U.S. would not defend Europe if Russia attacked?

By just pulling out first instead of any effort to make them comply makes it seem like it was a joint decision rather than a Russian act of aggression which is actually what it was by Putin. More fodder for the counterintelligence investigation of the President by our intelligence agencies. Legitimizing Putin's dictatorial rule is one of Russia's objectives. Every foreign policy decision he makes is in Putin's interests and against the U.S.

 

[pamak]

I have said in another thread that I see the recent developments as a long-term effect of the Bush decision to withdraw from the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty which tried to neutralize the offensive nuclear capabilities of Russia. Predictably, the latter most probably (they do not admit it) started the development of more advanced nuclear missiles which in turn led to the American complains about the Russians INF violations...

 

[RetiredUSN]

Trump has just made the world an objectively more dangerous place. The speed with which Russia exited the INF treaty and moved to create new, previously banned weapons strongly suggests that this was at least one of the topics that Putin and Trump discussed in private.

There's no putting the genie back into this bottle. The new nuclear arms race has begun and no future Congress or President can stop it.



https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/02/world/europe/russia-inf-treaty.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

Big freaking whoooop!

Russia has been violating the pact for years and refused to destroy the missiles.

Putin decided to not play by the rules years ago, but you decided to be the first to run online and display your ignorance.

Putin bent Obama over to his usual position for years.....................but but but but TRUMP!

 

[Atomic Kid]

Millennials are about to experience what it was like growing up in the 80's. Hooray.

I just realized so will my young niece, who isn't even in kindergarten yet. ****.

I wonder if they're going to bring back the the "duck and cover" drills we used to have to do when I was a kid. Guess they shall have squeeze them in between the active shooter and lock down drills.

 

[Atomic Kid]

Trump is Dr. Evil...

ssdd

The truth is... Trump's INF treaty pullout was "supported by UK defence secretary Gavin Williamson, who claimed Russia had been “making a mockery” of the agreement."

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...thdraw-pompeo-inf-putin-missile-a8757666.html

Who gives a **** what some dumbass foreign conservative politician thinks. I imagine this administration is going to try to paint this as being an example of Trump being tough on Russia. When actually Putin is not going to be the least bit sad or chastised by this at all. He has been wanting to get this treaty scrapped for over a decade. And Trump being the good little comrade he is, is always perfectly willing to accommodate Mr Putin.

 

[Rogue Valley]

 

[Born Free]

Trump has just made the world an objectively more dangerous place. The speed with which Russia exited the INF treaty and moved to create new, previously banned weapons strongly suggests that this was at least one of the topics that Putin and Trump discussed in private.

There's no putting the genie back into this bottle. The new nuclear arms race has begun and no future Congress or President can stop it.



https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/02/world/europe/russia-inf-treaty.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

Come on, Putin never abided by the agreement, Putin was not complying from day one, so Trump pulled out and gave Putin 6 months to think about it. Putin said no thanks I'm out, Christ he was out the day he signed the agreement.

If you want to blame someone blame Obamafail, what did he do to make Putin comply with the agreement. NOT a damn thing, just like he did not do a damn thing with NK, nor did he do a damn thing to fulfill his RED LINE.

 

[trixare4kids]

Who gives a **** what some dumbass foreign conservative politician thinks.

So you say you don't "give a **** what some dumbass foreign conservative politician thinks" but here you are ranting about it.
Mmm'kay.

I imagine this administration is going to try to paint this as being an example of Trump being tough on Russia. When actually Putin is not going to be the least bit sad or chastised by this at all. He has been wanting to get this treaty scrapped for over a decade. And Trump being the good little comrade he is, is always perfectly willing to accommodate Mr Putin.

Odd, that you would know that British Gavin Williamson, Secretary of Defense, a trusted NATO ally of the United State's opinion isn't worth anything, (well according to you), but know all about how Putin feels about Trump ending the INF treaty first.

"The US will withdraw from a landmark nuclear-weapons treaty it signed with the Soviet Union in 1987 as the Cold War ended because Russia has built a cache of missiles and refuses to destroy them, officials said today," but you go ahead with your silly tin pan theory that Trump is accommodating Russia.

The start of the withdrawal process, which goes into effect tomorrow, has the backing of the US’s NATO allies and represents the culmination of several years of failed negotiations with Russia. What appears to be Donald Trump’s toughest censure of Russian president Vladimir Putin would allow the US to rebuild a stockpile of intermediate-range weapons, potentially escalating a global arms race.

“For far too long, Russia has violated the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces (INF) treaty with impunity, covertly developing and fielding a prohibited missile system that poses a direct threat to our allies and troops abroad,” Trump said in a statement.

Sorry, but you don't make much sense.

https://qz.com/1540229/the-reason-trump-withdrew-from-inf-missile-treaty-with-russia/