Russia Pulls Out of Nuclear Treaty in ‘Symmetrical’ Response to U.S. Move (1 Viewer)

[Cardinal]

Trump has just made the world an objectively more dangerous place. The speed with which Russia exited the INF treaty and moved to create new, previously banned weapons strongly suggests that this was at least one of the topics that Putin and Trump discussed in private.

There's no putting the genie back into this bottle. The new nuclear arms race has begun and no future Congress or President can stop it.

MOSCOW — President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia, in a decision that was widely expected, suspended his country’s observance of a key nuclear arms control pact on Saturday in response to a similar move by the United States a day before.

But adding to a sense that the broader architecture of nuclear disarmament has started to unravel, Mr. Putin also said that Russia would build weapons previously banned under the treaty and would no longer initiate talks with the United States on any matters related to nuclear arms control.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/02/world/europe/russia-inf-treaty.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

 

[Rexedgar]

Weren’t the US and Russia the only signatories of this bill?

If one party leaves, isn’t it just eye-wash for the party to withdraw?

 

[Phys251]

Trump has just made the world an objectively more dangerous place. The speed with which Russia exited the INF treaty and moved to create new, previously banned weapons strongly suggests that this was at least one of the topics that Putin and Trump discussed in private.

There's no putting the genie back into this bottle. The new nuclear arms race has begun and no future Congress or President can stop it.



https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/02/world/europe/russia-inf-treaty.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

Cool. I always wanted to know what it was like to live in the Fallout universe. /s

 

[Cardinal]

Weren’t the US and Russia the only signatories of this bill?

If one party leaves, isn’t it just eye-wash for the party to withdraw?

I don't follow.

 

[smallvoice]

Trump has just made the world an objectively more dangerous place. The speed with which Russia exited the INF treaty and moved to create new, previously banned weapons strongly suggests that this was at least one of the topics that Putin and Trump discussed in private.

There's no putting the genie back into this bottle. The new nuclear arms race has begun and no future Congress or President can stop it.



https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/02/world/europe/russia-inf-treaty.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

Actually, they pulled out of compliance years ago, so what's the big deal?

 

[Northern Light]

This is horrific news.

A lot of Trump supporters underestimate just how much U.S. commitment to international treaties and agreements matters. The framework is more delicate than people realize. When we back out of agreements we made in good faith, the whole house of cards starts to follow.

Putin is a goon who will seize any opportunity to further Russia's agenda, so his response is not all that surprising. The thing is, Trump gave him the perfect moment to claim more power for Russia and in turn has increased a major security threat to the U.S. for years to come.

We must never forget: this started because Trump okayed the development of a new nuclear weapon and backed out of a treaty with Russia.

 

[Northern Light]

Actually, they pulled out of compliance years ago, so what's the big deal?

So we shouldn't uphold our end? Someone has to be the voice of reason. That used to be us, but those days are gone so long as Trump is around.

 

[Rexedgar]

I don't follow.

I left out a significant word; ”other.”


If you and I have an “agreement,” and one of us nullifies the agreement, what is the purpose of the jilted party to publically quit the agreement?

 

[Jetboogieman]

Cool. I always wanted to know what it was like to live in the Fallout universe. /s

I know for a fact what it would be like for me, where I live right now, we’d probably survive the initial exchange, I’m virtually certain of that, but we’d all probably end up starving to death or dying of whatever horrific nuclear fallout consequences may be, rad storm?

Bout as close as we’ll get to the game.

 

[Cardinal]

Actually, they pulled out of compliance years ago,

Any non-compliance will be nothing compared to the full and deliberate intermediate weapons program that will follow.

so what's the big deal?

What is the I.N.F. Treaty and how did it come about?

The treaty resolved a crisis of the 1980s when the Soviet Union deployed a missile in Europe called the SS-20, capable of carrying three nuclear warheads. The United States responded with cruise and Pershing II missiles based in Europe.

By the time President Ronald Reagan and Mikhail S. Gorbachev, the Soviet leader at the time, negotiated the deal to ban the weapons in 1987, the intermediate-range missiles had come to be seen as a hair trigger for nuclear war because of their short flight times — as little as 10 minutes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/01/world/europe/inf-treaty.html

 

[trixare4kids]

Actually, they pulled out of compliance years ago, so what's the big deal?

Trump is Dr. Evil...

ssdd

The truth is... Trump's INF treaty pullout was "supported by UK defence secretary Gavin Williamson, who claimed Russia had been “making a mockery” of the agreement."

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...thdraw-pompeo-inf-putin-missile-a8757666.html

 

[smallvoice]

So we shouldn't uphold our end? Someone has to be the voice of reason. That used to be us, but those days are gone so long as Trump is around.

It takes two to hold up both "ends". What part of 'they haven't abided by the terms of the agreement ( and continued to develop IRBMs, putting US troops and allies at risk)' did you not understand? Do you want to go along blithely pretending to be a Democrat and allowing the opposition to continue their nefarious ways without calling them out? Fortunately, we currently have a leader with a pair, a big improvement over the last eight years.

 

[Phys251]

I know for a fact what it would be like for me, where I live right now, we’d probably survive the initial exchange, I’m virtually certain of that, but we’d all probably end up starving to death or dying of whatever horrific nuclear fallout consequences may be, rad storm?

Bout as close as we’ll get to the game.

And we don't have any RadAways.

 

[Cardinal]

Millennials are about to experience what it was like growing up in the 80's. Hooray.

I just realized so will my young niece, who isn't even in kindergarten yet. ****.

 

[Phys251]

It takes two to hold up both "ends". What part of 'they haven't abided by the terms of the agreement ( and continued to develop IRBMs, putting US troops and allies at risk)' did you not understand? Do you want to go along blithely pretending to be a Democrat and allowing the opposition to continue their nefarious ways without calling them out? Fortunately, we currently have a leader with a pair, a big improvement over the last eight years.

I thought your president was supposed to decrease our involvement in the military-industrial complex. That was supposed to be one of his selling points.

 

[trixare4kids]

It takes two to hold up both "ends". What part of 'they haven't abided by the terms of the agreement ( and continued to develop IRBMs, putting US troops and allies at risk)' did you not understand? Do you want to go along blithely pretending to be a Democrat and allowing the opposition to continue their nefarious ways without calling them out? Fortunately, we currently have a leader with a pair, a big improvement over the last eight years.

Excellent grasp on the truth shown above.
What this thread needs instead of more Oh Trump fear-mongering.

 

[Cardinal]

It takes two to hold up both "ends". What part of 'they haven't abided by the terms of the agreement ( and continued to develop IRBMs, putting US troops and allies at risk)' did you not understand? Do you want to go along blithely pretending to be a Democrat and allowing the opposition to continue their nefarious ways without calling them out? Fortunately, we currently have a leader with a pair, a big improvement over the last eight years.

You are about to discover that there is a small, unsubtle difference between the possible violation of the treaty by testing an intermediate range delivery system and actually manufacturing a fleet of intermediate range nuclear weapons and placing them where they will raise tensions to the same levels as in the 1980's.

But hey, at least you can say the guy you put into office has "a pair," so living with the threat of imminent nuclear annihilation will have been totally worth it.

 

[smallvoice]

I thought your president was supposed to decrease our involvement in the military-industrial complex. That was supposed to be one of his selling points.

YOUR President said that? When? What does that have to do with the OP anyway?

 

[smallvoice]

You are about to discover that there is a small, unsubtle difference between the possible violation of the treaty by testing an intermediate range delivery system and actually manufacturing a fleet of intermediate range nuclear weapons and placing them where they will raise tensions to the same levels as in the 1980's.

But hey, at least you can say the guy you put into office has "a pair," so living with the threat of imminent nuclear annihilation will have been totally worth it.

So where did you get all that classified information you so freely post? Who is doing which of those calamities? I spent a career with my finger near the launch button, so no, I am not about to discover anything of the sort. Seen it, lived it, survived it, through the good actions of Republicans.

 

[Rogue Valley]

I believe Pompeo told Moscow before Thanksgiving that the US would pull out of the INF Treaty on 1 February 2019 if Russia was still in material breach at that time.

Russia has been in material breach of the INF since 2010. The Russian Novator mobile-launched cruise-missile exceeds the 500 km range allowed by the INF.

In addition, the Russians engineered things so that the mobile-launcher of an Iskander cruise-missile will also accommodate the Novator cruise-missile.

This makes it impossible to verify precisely which Russian cruise-missile is on the mobile-launcher, which is also a INF Treaty violation. The Trump administration has this one right.

With Russia in non-compliance, and no similar treaty with China, the US finds itself hamstrung and falling dangerously behind in the realm of land-based cruise-missiles.

 

[Cardinal]

So where did you get all that classified information you so freely post? Who is doing which of those calamities? I spent a career with my finger near the launch button, so no, I am not about to discover anything of the sort. Seen it, lived it, survived it, through the good actions of Republicans.

If you lived through it and "spent a career with your finger near the launch button" as you claim, then your position that this is no big deal doesn't work unless you don't have access to basic human emotions or survival instincts.

 

[ElChupacabra]

Trump has just made the world an objectively more dangerous place. The speed with which Russia exited the INF treaty and moved to create new, previously banned weapons strongly suggests that this was at least one of the topics that Putin and Trump discussed in private.

There's no putting the genie back into this bottle. The new nuclear arms race has begun and no future Congress or President can stop it.



https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/02/world/europe/russia-inf-treaty.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

If I'm not mistaken I remember hearing that Putin would still be open to a treaty, but they wouldn't be the initiators; what that means realistically is another thing because this is a pretty convenient response to dodge accountability. I can understand the rationale of pulling out of treaties where signatories are not meeting the conditions, but I think sticking to it and trying to negotiate should have been the first step versus just pulling out of it. The EU response will be interesting in a time where there's less trust in the US being an active deterrent to Russia.

 

[Harshaw]

So we shouldn't uphold our end? Someone has to be the voice of reason. That used to be us, but those days are gone so long as Trump is around.

Tell me what good upholding a treaty that the other party reneges on is.

 

[jimbo]

Trump has just made the world an objectively more dangerous place. The speed with which Russia exited the INF treaty and moved to create new, previously banned weapons strongly suggests that this was at least one of the topics that Putin and Trump discussed in private.

There's no putting the genie back into this bottle. The new nuclear arms race has begun and no future Congress or President can stop it.



https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/02/world/europe/russia-inf-treaty.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

Russia hadn't been honoring the treaty for a long time. That was President Trump's issue. I expect we'll survive.

 

[Phys251]

YOUR President said that? When? What does that have to do with the OP anyway?

#notmypresident