Republican leaders hate workers

[Conservative]

That's right, my friend.

So Liberal Avenger, that liveable wage you are calling for now amounts to a little over $1000 per month as that is the average benefit received by a SS recipient. That is about 12000 per year. Now what is the poverty level in this country then tell me what the original purpose was for SS?

SS is a typical liberal feel good program that wasn't supposed to be paid out because the life expectancy was below the actual payout date. It now costs more than intended, does less intended, hasn't solved a problem, and costs billions to administer. Even you could do better with your money than the SS Administration and Federal Govt.

 

[Conservative]

That's right, my friend.

This pretty much describes liberalism and their attitude towards redistribution of tax revenue, enjoy it in terms you may be able to understand

RUDDS SUPER MINING TAX EXPLAINED VIA THE "BEER ECONOMY" FOR THE AVERAGE JOE.... | Fishing - Fishwrecked.com - Fishing WA. Fishing Photos & Videos

 

[LiberalAvenger]

So Liberal Avenger, that liveable wage you are calling for now amounts to a little over $1000 per month as that is the average benefit received by a SS recipient. That is about 12000 per year. Now what is the poverty level in this country then tell me what the original purpose was for SS?

SS is a typical liberal feel good program that wasn't supposed to be paid out because the life expectancy was below the actual payout date. It now costs more than intended, does less intended, hasn't solved a problem, and costs billions to administer. Even you could do better with your money than the SS Administration and Federal Govt.

What's your alternative? Let old people die of starvation and lack of shelter?

 

[LiberalAvenger]

What's your alternative? Let old people die of starvation and lack of shelter?

I've read that stupid piece of **** propaganda, before. Pure sophistry.

 

[winston53660]

So Liberal Avenger, that liveable wage you are calling for now amounts to a little over $1000 per month as that is the average benefit received by a SS recipient. That is about 12000 per year. Now what is the poverty level in this country then tell me what the original purpose was for SS?

SS is a typical liberal feel good program that wasn't supposed to be paid out because the life expectancy was below the actual payout date. It now costs more than intended, does less intended, hasn't solved a problem, and costs billions to administer. Even you could do better with your money than the SS Administration and Federal Govt.

So are you collecting SS now? How about medicare are you collecting that now too?

 

[LiberalAvenger]

So are collecting it now? How about medicare are collecting that now too?

You will have to ask the so's.

 

[pbrauer]

Do you have any idea what the purpose was for SS and how much it was projected to cost when implemented? I hardly call it successful. Obviously you don't understand how much you are going to get with SS as it doesn't prevent people from falling below the poverty level and infact puts people who live off SS well below the poverty level. this is just another example of liberal brainwashing and the further we get away from the creation of SS the more distortion as to its purpose.

Want to really blow your mind? Get an investment calculator, put into that calculator every dime you put into SS and every dime your employer puts into SS. Put a very conservative interest rate and see how much you will have when you retire vs what you will get from the govt? Too many people simply buy what they are told and are like little sheep on the way to slaughter.

Your problem is that you don't know what Social Security is. It's not an investment plan, it's an INSURANCE plan. There are plenty of people who are well under the retirement who draw Social Security because they no longer are able to work. There are plenty of people where their dirty rotten conservative management has squandered away their pension plans and have no money in which to retire.

 

[pbrauer]

This pretty much describes liberalism and their attitude towards redistribution of tax revenue, enjoy it in terms you may be able to understand

RUDDS SUPER MINING TAX EXPLAINED VIA THE "BEER ECONOMY" FOR THE AVERAGE JOE.... | Fishing - Fishwrecked.com - Fishing WA. Fishing Photos & Videos

That's just plain stupid. The fact is that the super rich are getting richer and the middle class is slowly getting wiped out. Tax policy favors the very rich, don't you know?

 

[Conservative]

What's your alternative? Let old people die of starvation and lack of shelter?

Typical diversion, no response to the actual facts. SS average payout is a little over 1000 per month or 12,000 per year. You can do better than that in a simple CD over 35 years.and it is ALL your money with zero administrative fees.

 

[Conservative]

I've read that stupid piece of **** propaganda, before. Pure sophistry.

What is stupid in that piece of ****?

 

[Conservative]

That's just plain stupid. The fact is that the super rich are getting richer and the middle class is slowly getting wiped out. Tax policy favors the very rich, don't you know?

Tax policy favoring those that pay the most taxes? Who would have thought that? I can see what is preventing you from becoming one of those rich people that you seem to have jealousy for.

 

[Conservative]

Your problem is that you don't know what Social Security is. It's not an investment plan, it's an INSURANCE plan. There are plenty of people who are well under the retirement who draw Social Security because they no longer are able to work. There are plenty of people where their dirty rotten conservative management has squandered away their pension plans and have no money in which to retire.

I know exactly what it is, a huge ponzi scheme where the today's workers are paying for yesterday's retirees and a huge pot of money that the politicians use on whatever they want including showing a surplus.

Notice that you never seem to worry about state govt's that blow their budgets and their pension plans for taxpayer funded employees or unions that destroy their pension plans by waste, fraud, and abuse. It is always conservative management doing those things in your world? Amazing how misinformed liberals are.

 

[ricksfolly]

If you want to call Social Security socialist, it has been very successful and will continue to be despite all the doom and gloom from the right. It has never missed a payment and has stopped millions from falling into poverty.

Not only that but but the government still owes SS over $2 trillion... from borrowing the SS surplus over the years.


Google Social Security - Just facts

* The Social Security program has an independent budget that is separate from the rest of the federal government.[71]

* Since 1982, Social Security has had surpluses ranging from $89 million to $190 billion per year.[72] By law, these surpluses must be loaned to the federal government, which is obligated to pay the money back with interest.[73] [74] [75] This is referred to as the "Social Security Trust Fund" and at the close of 2007 it had a balance of $2.2 trillion.[76]

* Social Security is projected to continue having annual surpluses until 2017 [77] [78] at which point the federal government will owe $3.5 trillion to the Social Security program, or $10,400 for every man, woman and child living in the U.S. at the time.[79] [80]

* In 2017, the Social Security program is projected to start having annual deficits that will be covered by collecting on the money it has loaned to the federal government. By 2041, it is projected that all of this money will be paid back and the trust fund will be exhausted.[81]

NOTE: The above fact does not mean that the federal government will have enough money to pay back the Social Security program. Information concerning the ability of the federal government to do so is contained in the section: Impact on National Debt

* After 2041, Social Security is projected to have deficits every year into the foreseeable future.[82] To cover these shortfalls, it is projected that payroll taxes would need to be increased by 28% starting in 2041, rising to a 34% increase by 2082.[83] This shortfall could also be covered by reducing benefits by 21% starting in 2041, falling to a 24% reduction by 2082.[84]


ricksfolly

 

[LiberalAvenger]

Typical diversion, no response to the actual facts. SS average payout is a little over 1000 per month or 12,000 per year. You can do better than that in a simple CD over 35 years.and it is ALL your money with zero administrative fees.

Don't you realize that a lot of people live from week to week. If they had not been paying into SS then a lot of them would never have saved a dime. The oligarchy would never allow them to have any money left over after basic living expenses.

Many people do not have trust funds or inherit money. Poverty is a way of life for them.

Of course when you make enough to have enough to save it's easy to judge people who are not as wonderful as yourself. Let's face it. You are just special.

 

[LiberalAvenger]

Not only that but but the government still owes SS over $2 trillion... from borrowing the SS surplus over the years.


Google Social Security - Just facts

* The Social Security program has an independent budget that is separate from the rest of the federal government.[71]

* Since 1982, Social Security has had surpluses ranging from $89 million to $190 billion per year.[72] By law, these surpluses must be loaned to the federal government, which is obligated to pay the money back with interest.[73] [74] [75] This is referred to as the "Social Security Trust Fund" and at the close of 2007 it had a balance of $2.2 trillion.[76]

* Social Security is projected to continue having annual surpluses until 2017 [77] [78] at which point the federal government will owe $3.5 trillion to the Social Security program, or $10,400 for every man, woman and child living in the U.S. at the time.[79] [80]

* In 2017, the Social Security program is projected to start having annual deficits that will be covered by collecting on the money it has loaned to the federal government. By 2041, it is projected that all of this money will be paid back and the trust fund will be exhausted.[81]

NOTE: The above fact does not mean that the federal government will have enough money to pay back the Social Security program. Information concerning the ability of the federal government to do so is contained in the section: Impact on National Debt

* After 2041, Social Security is projected to have deficits every year into the foreseeable future.[82] To cover these shortfalls, it is projected that payroll taxes would need to be increased by 28% starting in 2041, rising to a 34% increase by 2082.[83] This shortfall could also be covered by reducing benefits by 21% starting in 2041, falling to a 24% reduction by 2082.[84]


ricksfolly

We should make the politicians pay for the money borrowed from SS by taking it out of their pay, benefits, and retirement packages.

 

[Conservative]

LiberalAvenger;1058913095]Don't you realize that a lot of people live from week to week. If they had not been paying into SS then a lot of them would never have saved a dime. The oligarchy would never allow them to have any money left over after basic living expenses.

Many people do not have trust funds or inherit money. Poverty is a way of life for them.

Yes, I understand that there is no such thing as personal responsibility in your world. When SS was first created it was never intended for a payout as the life expectency then was 62 and payout was 65. It was intended to be a SUPPLEMENT to retirement income that people saved themselves. A lot of people now let the things they want get in the way of things they need thus run a deficit and require SS to fund their entire retirement income. That is something you simply do not understand.

Of course when you make enough to have enough to save it's easy to judge people who are not as wonderful as yourself. Let's face it. You are just special.

Apparently so, I was taught to be responsible for my own finances and to take care of my family. I worked hard and no one gave me a dime. I grew up in a very poor household but learned hard work, dedication, and responsibility for my actions. My Dad had a 8th grade education and owned his own business. I learned a lot from my dad. Too bad others didn't take advantage of the opportunities they had as well. Seems like a hard concept for people like you today.

 

[Conservative]

We should make the politicians pay for the money borrowed from SS by taking it out of their pay, benefits, and retirement packages.

Now you are starting to get it. It is very easy for politicians to spend SS money as they don't contribute and have their own retirement fund. Make sense to you?

 

[ricksfolly]

A lot of people live from week to week. If they had not been paying into SS then a lot of them would never have saved a dime.
Many people do not have trust funds or inherit money. Poverty is a way of life for them.

According to My handy dandy 2010 World Almanac... In 2009, the max SS benefit was $2,172 per month, more than enough for a single person to retire on if he owns his own home or lives in a retirement community. However, the average was only $1,153 for 2008...

ricksfolly

 

[pbrauer]

Not only that but but the government still owes SS over $2 trillion... from borrowing the SS surplus over the years.


Google Social Security - Just facts

* The Social Security program has an independent budget that is separate from the rest of the federal government.[71]

* Since 1982, Social Security has had surpluses ranging from $89 million to $190 billion per year.[72] By law, these surpluses must be loaned to the federal government, which is obligated to pay the money back with interest.[73] [74] [75] This is referred to as the "Social Security Trust Fund" and at the close of 2007 it had a balance of $2.2 trillion.[76]

* Social Security is projected to continue having annual surpluses until 2017 [77] [78] at which point the federal government will owe $3.5 trillion to the Social Security program, or $10,400 for every man, woman and child living in the U.S. at the time.[79] [80]

* In 2017, the Social Security program is projected to start having annual deficits that will be covered by collecting on the money it has loaned to the federal government. By 2041, it is projected that all of this money will be paid back and the trust fund will be exhausted.[81]

NOTE: The above fact does not mean that the federal government will have enough money to pay back the Social Security program. Information concerning the ability of the federal government to do so is contained in the section: Impact on National Debt

* After 2041, Social Security is projected to have deficits every year into the foreseeable future.[82] To cover these shortfalls, it is projected that payroll taxes would need to be increased by 28% starting in 2041, rising to a 34% increase by 2082.[83] This shortfall could also be covered by reducing benefits by 21% starting in 2041, falling to a 24% reduction by 2082.[84]


ricksfolly

Treasury bonds are NOT IOU's

 

[Renae]

What's your alternative? Let old people die of starvation and lack of shelter?

Yes, because that's what would happen, millions would starve and die.
:roll:

 

[Conservative]

Treasury bonds are NOT IOU's

That's what you got out of this? You really are in bad, bad shape and ignore anything that contradicts your point of view and opinions. I don't understand how people like you can be so brainwashed by an ideology that has failed completely. Facts, logic, and common sense have no place in your world as you prefer buying rhetoric that makes you look foolish.

SS is broke, it was put on budget decades ago and surpluses were spent instead of put where they belonged in that "lock box" for future retirees. Instead the money was spent on liberal social programs outside SS and now the system is going broke. There are examples of liberal failures everywhere but for some reason you don't want to believe the actual facts. Some people will always think with their hearts instead of their brain and buy rhetoric while ignoring substance.

 

[MaggieD]

Typical diversion, no response to the actual facts. SS average payout is a little over 1000 per month or 12,000 per year. You can do better than that in a simple CD over 35 years.and it is ALL your money with zero administrative fees.

You say that, but is it true? I just took a look at Tom's Annual Social Security Statement. It shows the total amount he's paid into Social Security during his working life. If I figure he paid an equal amount annually into a personal account that paid 5% interest annually, he'd annuitize that money for 20 years at a monthly income of $1342.00. His full Social Security benefit at his age 66 will be $2020/month for his lifetime, plus any COLA, of course.

 

[Conservative]

You say that, but is it true? I just took a look at Tom's Annual Social Security Statement. It shows the total amount he's paid into Social Security during his working life. If I figure he paid an equal amount annually into a personal account that paid 5% interest annually, he'd annuitize that money for 20 years at a monthly income of $1342.00. His full Social Security benefit at his age 66 will be $2020/month for his lifetime, plus any COLA, of course.

First of all there is company contribution as well as personal, second the average interest rate over 30+ years is more than 5% compounded, and third SS payments begin when you start work and normally are paid more than 20 years. In addition if you invest the money all of it is yours and goes to the family if anything happens to "Tom". If anything happens to "Tom" your survival benefits aren't that great so you will lose a lot of his contributions.

Any financial advisor will tell you that they can do you a much better job than the govt. and history has proven them right.

 

[pbrauer]

That's what you got out of this? You really are in bad, bad shape and ignore anything that contradicts your point of view and opinions. I don't understand how people like you can be so brainwashed by an ideology that has failed completely. Facts, logic, and common sense have no place in your world as you prefer buying rhetoric that makes you look foolish.

SS is broke, it was put on budget decades ago and surpluses were spent instead of put where they belonged in that "lock box" for future retirees. Instead the money was spent on liberal social programs outside SS and now the system is going broke. There are examples of liberal failures everywhere but for some reason you don't want to believe the actual facts. Some people will always think with their hearts instead of their brain and buy rhetoric while ignoring substance.

Social Security isn't broke, in fact in 1983 Ronald Reagan (probably your hero) extended it because of the babyboomers. See Social Security Greenspan Commision

Here are remarks by the then President:

In recent years inflation has created great uncertainty about our social security system. Time and again we've been reassured the system would be financially sound for decades to come, only to find that recalculations of receipts and benefits forecast a new crisis. Current and future retirees now question the systems ability to provide them the benefits they ve been led to expect. Americans look to us for leadership and for answers.

As a candidate in 1980 I pledged that I would do my utmost to restore the integrity of social security and do so without penalty to those dependent on that program. I have honored that pledge and will continue to do so. We cannot and we will not betray people entitled to social security benefits.

In September I announced that I would appoint a bipartisan task force to work with the President and the Congress to reach two specific goals: propose realistic, long-term reforms to put social security back on a sound financial footing and forge a working bipartisan consensus so that the necessary reforms will be passed into law.

Senate Majority Leader Baker, Speaker O'Neill, and I agreed we would each select five members for a new national commission on social security. Today I am pleased and honored to announce the formation of the commission and that Alan Greenspan has agreed at my request to serve as Chairman of that commission.

I m asking the commission to present its report to the American people at the end of next year. I can think of no more important domestic problem requiring resolution than the future of our social security system.

Let me make one thing plain: With bipartisan cooperation and political courage, social security can and will be saved. For too long, too many people dependent on social security have been cruelly frightened by individuals seeking political gain through demagoguery and outright falsehood, and this must stop. The future of social security is much too important to be used as a political football.

Saving social security will require the best efforts of both parties and of both the executive and legislative branches of government. I'm confident this can be done and that in its deliberations this commission will put aside partisan considerations and seek a solution the American people will find fiscally sound and fully equitable.

That Ronald Reagan was one hell of a socialist! :lamo

 

[MaggieD]

First of all there is company contribution as well as personal, second the average interest rate over 30+ years is more than 5% compounded, and third SS payments begin when you start work and normally are paid more than 20 years. In addition if you invest the money all of it is yours and goes to the family if anything happens to "Tom". If anything happens to "Tom" your survival benefits aren't that great so you will lose a lot of his contributions.

Any financial advisor will tell you that they can do you a much better job than the govt. and history has proven them right.

I didn't figure employer contributions in my calculations, Conservative, just what Tom paid in. I know 5% compounded was low, but I also just divided his total paid in by the total number of years he worked -- which is waaaay heavy on his early working years. I'm figuring it's prolly a wash. (Who knows?)

And, of course, you're right. If Tom dies 1 month in, he's earned jack; and his money's all gone. From the standpoint of survivors, CDs are certainly better provided one doesn't live too long. Your "third" you mention? I don't quite understand what you're saying. I used the lump sum plus 5% compounded interest to see what payout it would buy for a 20-year annuity. In the case of your CD illustration, that money would be gone in 20 years. SS just keeps right on payin'.

Like someone said, it's more of an insurance policy than an investment. Not arguing it's right/wrong...just put some numbers together to see what I got.