Religion, the workplace, and time off

[Aunt Spiker]

This stems from a conversation I had with someone, today, at the hardware store. He's religious: church on Sunday. When he first started working at this business quite a long time ago he was upfront about his religion, they approved Sunday off - always - for his faith. It was contractually agreed on.

Now, though, they're making some corporate changes and instead of the store managers being responsible for the schedules these will be made up for by headquarters. In this switch over process his always-agreed-on day off of Sunday is suddenly in question.

His complaint to me today was that "30 years ago this would never have been an issue. . . but things today are so anti-religious people act as if it's an inconvenience for them that I have certain beliefs that I put first . . . "

So - on his view and situation: what are your thoughts? Generally speaking: is it more difficult and more of an 'inconvenience' for religious people to secure time off of work per their religious beliefs?

[apologies if this isn't quite the right forum - I think it's suitable, here, but a mod can move if they feel it's necessary]

 

[Gipper]

According to laws, the phrase "reasonable accommodations" frequently comes up. I don't mind this guy requesting Sundays off as per his religion, especially if there was an assistant manager that could do it or some other stop-gap could be put into place to make sure the store doesn't collapse in the day he's off.

Now if someone has to drop everything and go pray 12 times a day or wear workplace-inappropriate clothing, I'd say can them.

 

[Pinkie]

Why does he need the whole day off to go to church? And why can't he go on another day -- even the RCC has Mass on Saturdays now?

In my mind, this is far less intrusive than the man who needs every Monday off to take his mother to dialysis, etc. We all have personal obligations....and we all have had employers who made them extremely hard to meet.

 

[liblady]

This stems from a conversation I had with someone, today, at the hardware store. He's religious: church on Sunday. When he first started working at this business quite a long time ago he was upfront about his religion, they approved Sunday off - always - for his faith. It was contractually agreed on.

Now, though, they're making some corporate changes and instead of the store managers being responsible for the schedules these will be made up for by headquarters. In this switch over process his always-agreed-on day off of Sunday is suddenly in question.

His complaint to me today was that "30 years ago this would never have been an issue. . . but things today are so anti-religious people act as if it's an inconvenience for them that I have certain beliefs that I put first . . . "

So - on his view and situation: what are your thoughts? Generally speaking: is it more difficult and more of an 'inconvenience' for religious people to secure time off of work per their religious beliefs?

[apologies if this isn't quite the right forum - I think it's suitable, here, but a mod can move if they feel it's necessary]

i don't think the world being "anti-religion" has one iota to do with this. retail operations open on sundays require people to work on sundays. just because he was allowed sundays off before the corporate changes doesn't mean he has to be allowed sundays off now. personally, i would be pissed if i had to work every sunday while this guy didn't. imo, too bad, so sad.

 

[sangha]

This stems from a conversation I had with someone, today, at the hardware store. He's religious: church on Sunday. When he first started working at this business quite a long time ago he was upfront about his religion, they approved Sunday off - always - for his faith. It was contractually agreed on.

Now, though, they're making some corporate changes and instead of the store managers being responsible for the schedules these will be made up for by headquarters. In this switch over process his always-agreed-on day off of Sunday is suddenly in question.

His complaint to me today was that "30 years ago this would never have been an issue. . . but things today are so anti-religious people act as if it's an inconvenience for them that I have certain beliefs that I put first . . . "

So - on his view and situation: what are your thoughts? Generally speaking: is it more difficult and more of an 'inconvenience' for religious people to secure time off of work per their religious beliefs?

[apologies if this isn't quite the right forum - I think it's suitable, here, but a mod can move if they feel it's necessary]

Agreements with no time limits are not legally binding. Business conditions change and along with that comes changes to employment requirements.

Your acquiantance is a hypocrit, IMO. He thinks they're "anti-christian" but he's willing to help them make money if they're willing to keep paying him. He thinks his employer should accomodate his needs, but he feels no needs to accomodate his employers needs. Even worse, he wants to frame it as his employer being "anti-religious" when the truth is, they just want him to work on Sunday. They don't give a crap about his beliefs.

He's just another whiner with a huge self-entitlement complex. I'd tell him to get over himself

 

[Spartacus FPV]

I wish I could justify time off for beliefs I held.

 

[tessaesque]

When I started managing at the theater I had a lot of kids who needed Saturdays or Sundays off for religious reasons. Those being the busiest day of the week, it was always challenging for us to allow for the time off....but we did. In order to balance that hassle we posted "now hiring" signs asking for people with weekend availability...After about a month of tricky scheduling we'd successfully employed enough new blood to balance the schedule. Those who were unable to work through the weekend were made aware that weekday hours are limited and they'd be competing (based on performance) for those limited hours. There was no punishment or retaliation for their requests, and many of those employees had no problem with how they were scheduled as long as they got those needed days off.

Happy employees perform better. Bitter, resentful employees end up costing you more money than they're worth. If it weren't for flexible employers I'd have missed out on friends' major life events, family events, hell...even my own graduation.

 

[rathi]

This really doesn't have anything to do with religion. A good employer has to strike a reasonable balance between the needs of the business and the needs of the employees. If another employee asked for Sunday off because that was the day they had custody of their kids, I'd put it in a similar category.

 

[Gipper]

I don't think one day off a week is excessive though.

The question is if the store/business would be adversely affected through his inability to work Sundays. If the answer is "no", they really don't have much of a leg to stand on.

I wouldn't consider this a huge deal. Now if he demanded two days a week be unavailable for scheduling, then we'd have a problem.

 

[Paschendale]

I remember always having trouble in high school was I was the only kid in class who didn't come to school on Rosh Hashannah and Yom Kippur. Even the other Jewish kids didn't go to synagogue on those days. There was always some serious drama to deal with when a teacher assigned homework that would due on Yom Kippur...

Years later, I oppose all the religousness involved, but I support giving people some leeway. The guy in the OP should have his wishes respected, so long as they're not outrageous.

 

[liblady]

When I started managing at the theater I had a lot of kids who needed Saturdays or Sundays off for religious reasons. Those being the busiest day of the week, it was always challenging for us to allow for the time off....but we did. In order to balance that hassle we posted "now hiring" signs asking for people with weekend availability...After about a month of tricky scheduling we'd successfully employed enough new blood to balance the schedule. Those who were unable to work through the weekend were made aware that weekday hours are limited and they'd be competing (based on performance) for those limited hours. There was no punishment or retaliation for their requests, and many of those employees had no problem with how they were scheduled as long as they got those needed days off.

Happy employees perform better. Bitter, resentful employees end up costing you more money than they're worth. If it weren't for flexible employers I'd have missed out on friends' major life events, family events, hell...even my own graduation.

i agree with you completely, when the employer can hire enough people to work a weekend. many times they can't, so every sunday off can't be a consideration. i work for a flexible manager, but we can all cover for each other if need be. so i am free to use days for personal reasons other than vacation.

in any case, i'm all for flexibility, but the employer sets the rules.

 

[tessaesque]

i agree with you completely, when the employer can hire enough people to work a weekend. many times they can't, so every sunday off can't be a consideration. i work for a flexible manager, but we can all cover for each other if need be. so i am free to use days for personal reasons other than vacation.

in any case, i'm all for flexibility, but the employer sets the rules.

Seems like with 9.1% unemployment a pool of applicants should be readily available...

 

[liblady]

Seems like with 9.1% unemployment a pool of applicants should be readily available...

i'm sure there are, but who knows what kind of employee the company wants? could be they don't WANT part time employees......

 

[tessaesque]

i'm sure there are, but who knows what kind of employee the company wants? could be they don't WANT part time employees......

Guess it's about the balance...My theater job ended in flames because of the availability expectations. I was 21, trying to go to school while working. They wanted 24/7 availability. If you said "no" to shift for ANY reason they wrote you up. If you didn't average 55-60 hours a week or more you weren't working hard enough. And of course, it was salary. I worked 28 days straight without a day off, only to have 2 days of vacation time denied during the slowest period of the year because, and I quote, "there's no reason you should need time off".

Personally, whatever lesson they were trying to teach me didn't sink in. I left the job behind and found an 8-5 position with weekends off. And I feel like 1 specific day a week is not an unreasoanble request in any job. We shouldn't be living to work, we should be working to live. There is no reason anybody should have to make their job (career or otherwise) the only priority of any significance in their lives.

 

[DashingAmerican]

I think if he has had Sundays off for however long, it is wrong for them to change it. I also agree that there is more of an anti-religion "air" in this day and age and that this would be a non-issue 30 years ago. People act like it is such a hindrance for his day off to be Sunday. Where I work everybody has every Saturday off which I love because I prefer college football over church any day of the week.

On the other hand, going to church is not required to have a relationship with God.

 

[Gipper]

So true, DA. I'm spiritual but not religious. Then again, I don't have that problem. Working in an office, I never work Sundays.

I guess that's the moral of the story: if you want Sundays off, don't work retail.

I'll say a solemn prayer for all those sorry bastards slaving away while I watch NFL. Guffaw.

 

[nota bene]

i don't think the world being "anti-religion" has one iota to do with this. retail operations open on sundays require people to work on sundays. just because he was allowed sundays off before the corporate changes doesn't mean he has to be allowed sundays off now. personally, i would be pissed if i had to work every sunday while this guy didn't. imo, too bad, so sad.

If you weren't "religious," why would you care if you had to work on a Sunday anyway? Is there something special about Sunday?

I know lots of people, BTW, who are not observant or who are single who actually volunteer to work on Sundays and Christmas Day so that those who are observant, especially the ones with little kids, can have these days off.

 

[Alyssa]

Good managers are also effective at scheduling. If employees give them plenty of notice, accommodating their holidays or whatnot shouldn't be a problem. But most places only hire people with open availability because they can due to so many people competing for the same job. The job market currently favors employers.

 

[DashingAmerican]

Also, thinking on it. If the employee put on their application that they can't work Sunday's and the employer hired them,then there is nothing the employer can do except allow him to have it.

 

[Dezaad]

I would prefer that retail establishments be closed on Sunday, and I am an atheist. I think it contributes to a worker's quality of life to have a day off in common with the vast majority of everyone else. If they use that day to connect with their families and other churchgoers, then I think they have used it well.

I think it is sad that people react to this agreement as if he is putting upon the employer, rather than the other way around.

 

[Risky Thicket]

Thirty years ago there weren't many megacorps with megacorps one size fits all policies. That's what is wrong. It's not anti-religion policy, it's an anti-worker policy.

Your friend is assuming that he's being persecuted because of his religion. No likely true. This is Amerika and corpgov rules. You said that schedules are made at corporate - bingo! It isn't about the workers, it's about the bottom line. "Everyone line up like little ducks and do as your told from far away, it's more profitable for the stock holders."

I suggest your friend make a call to his union rep to get the matter handled. Oh wait, no union. Corpgov doesn't like unions.

 

[nota bene]

i'm sure there are, but who knows what kind of employee the company wants? could be they don't WANT part time employees......

That would be odd, wouldn't it? Don't Walmart and other big-box stores prefer part-timers because they don't have to pay them bennies?

 

[Thrilla]

no way in hell I could work 30 years at a hardware store.

after 30 years, i'd have my own store... and would take Sundays off to watch football.

 

[Dezaad]

no way in hell I could work 30 years at a hardware store.

after 30 years, i'd have my own store... and would take Sundays off to watch football.

And, if everyone tried to do something similar, the whole economic system would be broken. The system needs people who are worker bees, and we should all be happy there are people who are more or less suited to it.

This kind of comparison is simply ignorant.

 

[Ikari]

Thirty years ago there weren't many megacorps with megacorps one size fits all policies. That's what is wrong. It's not anti-religion policy, it's an anti-worker policy.

Hey hey hey! This is clearly an attack on religion and in no way can be related to the changes in work conditions, hows, and employee power.