Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

[j-mac]

Medicare is broke, which is what will happen to a UHC program as well.

 

[bubbabgone]

Anyone with a half brain knew ObamaKare was merely a step towards the Socialists of Amerika Partei's (SAPs) ultimate goal.

It's a prime example of the party of Lies & Deceit. They pass the bill using parliamentary procedures, their Top Hag Frau Pelosi tells us we have to sign it and then read it... Scott Brown wins Dead Kennedy's seat in MA in an effort to stop the idiocy, and now, years later they reveal their real goal.

The SAPs really do reflect their Rotten to the Core Royalty... The Felonious Clintons.

Not new news.
Everyone remember?

 

[bubbabgone]

What's with Wingnuts and their insistence on putting a "K" where there should be a "C"? Do they not realize how stupid it makes them look? Nobody takes serious a post that calls America "AmeriKa" or Obamacare "ObamaKare". WTF?

Or calling yourself a Centrist when you're anything but.

 

[j-mac]

Not new news.
Everyone remember?

I remember all of this....I wonder how long before the progressive liars that jammed this turd through, will start saying that you are taking it out of context?

 

[bubbabgone]

I remember all of this....I wonder how long before the progressive liars that jammed this turd through, will start saying that you are taking it out of context?

I hear ya ... can't take that volume of comments out of context but they'll come up with something.
None of that got broad coverage and what Reid said got damn near no coverage.

 

[j-mac]

I hear ya ... can't take that volume of comments out of context but they'll come up with something.
None of that got broad coverage and what Reid said got damn near no coverage.

I forget the piece of crap progressive congress critter that came out right after the party line, and bribed vote at Midnight on Christmas eve that this "law" passed on, but he also said this was just a stepping stone at the time...He's that jackass that wears the red vests at Christmas time....

 

[bubbabgone]

I forget the piece of crap progressive congress critter that came out right after the party line, and bribed vote at Midnight on Christmas eve that this "law" passed on, but he also said this was just a stepping stone at the time...He's that jackass that wears the red vests at Christmas time....

... to think it was this close to being killed. Unreal.

 

[Mycroft]

I don't find it remarkable that Reid and others say that their ultimate goal is some sort of government run health care system. This view has been suspected of him and admitted by others many times. What I DO find remarkable is the fact that he will come out now and publicly express that view. This means he feels safe in making this admission instead of holding back. Does he feel like now is the time to start his push for government run health care? After all, Obamacare is being seen as a failure...heck, a downright bad thing...more and more.

Now that Reid and others have shoved Obamacare down our throats, perhaps they think they are safe to shove their government run single payer system down our throats. Given that liberals have pretty much succeeded in convincing the People that the government is the solution to all their problems, he just might be right.

Open wide, everyone....here it comes whether you like it or not.

 

[Paschendale]

Interesting, so you think that because you post 2 links to organizations that parrot your view, and vice versa on UHC, that this constitutes what a "majority of America wants"? Talk about thinking in a bubble....

How many 5 year old polls do you have sitting around? I remember what the polls said at the time. They were linked all across this site. As I said, you want to rewrite history.

 

[wbcoleman]

we should have just done that in the first place and skipped the heritage foundation private insurance plan from the 1990s.

So why didn't they vote in single payer? Because THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE VOTES. And why didn't they have the votes? Because THE COUNTRY DOESN'T WANT IT. So what does one make of a scheme to secure an outcome which the country doesn't want by wrecking the existing insurance market and then presenting the necessity of single payer as a fait accompli?

 

[j-mac]

How many 5 year old polls do you have sitting around? I remember what the polls said at the time. They were linked all across this site. As I said, you want to rewrite history.

Polls? I think anyone being asked about the individual goodies once they have them, will say that they like them, that doesn't however mean that this steaming pile of crap called the ACA is liked in its entirety.....

 

[ttwtt78640]

Because conservatives want to rewrite history:

Two-thirds of Americans support Medicare-for-all (#3 of 6) - PNHP's Official Blog
Healthcare-NOW! - Another Poll Shows Majority Support for Single-Payer
What do Americans really want for healthcare insurance? Single Payer | If Liz were Queen

I know that the right wing likes to get itself in a frenzy over the socialist boogeyman, but most Americans don't ignore obviously good reforms just because paranoid wingnuts slap a label on it and call it socialist. The rest of the first world calls it common sense. And, of course, to non-frothy wacko types, socialist doesn't mean evil. It just means different.

If that is what "the people" wanted then why did the demorats replace that "wanted UHC" with the PPACA mess that we now must endure? Could it be the simple fact that Medicare is grossly underfunded, even while not allowing any benefits until age 65? You cannot fund 18% of the US economy with a 2% to 9.5% tax.

 

[wbcoleman]

How is a single payer system Socialism?

A single payer system is merely the conduit for payments. It does not own the hospitals. It does not hire the doctors. It does not make the drugs. While it may set pricing rules, the healthcare itself is not government owned or operated. Saying single payer is Socialism is saying that having your parents pay for everything in your household is Socialism.

TRICARE is actually Socialist where the government owns the means of production.

TRICARE is indistinguishable from Medicare. For people who have both, TRICARE is simply Medicare supplemental insurance.

 

[wbcoleman]

Polls? I think anyone being asked about the individual goodies once they have them, will say that they like them, that doesn't however mean that this steaming pile of crap called the ACA is liked in its entirety.....

They don't even have to have them yet. Everybody likes the goodies. Not everybody likes the consequences.

 

[wbcoleman]

If that is what "the people" wanted then why did the demorats replace that "wanted UHC" with the PPACA mess that we now must endure? Could it be the simple fact that Medicare is grossly underfunded, even while not allowing any benefits until age 65? You cannot fund 18% of the US economy with a 2% to 9.5% tax.

Could it be that these left-wing polls were fraudulent?

 

[ttwtt78640]

Polls? I think anyone being asked about the individual goodies once they have them, will say that they like them, that doesn't however mean that this steaming pile of crap called the ACA is liked in its entirety.....

That is exactly why King Barack decided to "delay" the PPACA employer mandate until after the 2014 mid-term congressional elections.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Could it be that these left-wing polls were fraudulent?

Probably not. More likely it was what the campaign contributors (and their lobbyists) wanted that caused the popularity of the PPACA "deal". With a mandate to spend 15% tp 20% of 1/6 of the US GDP on "private" medical care insurance "overhead" that is some serious cash to be gobbled up.

 

[wbcoleman]

That is exactly why King Barack decided to "delay" the PPACA employer mandate until after the 2014 mid-term congressional elections.

but..... but..... once the public sees how wonderful it is, they'll love it! :iloveyou:

 

[Helix]

So why didn't they vote in single payer? Because THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE VOTES. And why didn't they have the votes? Because THE COUNTRY DOESN'T WANT IT. So what does one make of a scheme to secure an outcome which the country doesn't want by wrecking the existing insurance market and then presenting the necessity of single payer as a fait accompli?

the average person also doesn't want to pay more at every level of care than anyone else in the world with poorer outcomes. The PPACA is a POS, though. Hopefully we'll enact real reform before we go bankrupt clinging to the false idea that an essential service with inelastic demand can be efficiently delivered by the market.

 

[calamity]

Or calling yourself a Centrist when you're anything but.

Problem is wingnuts are so far gone they think anyone believing that global warming is real and that terrorists plots to destroy America are not is considered a bleeding heart liberal. And, if you think that people should have access to affordable healthcare and a right to collectively bargain, you're downright a Commie. So, of course a Centrist appears to them to be on the Far Left.

 

[VanceMack]

When Obamacare was passed many people cheered. "YAY!!! We get free healthcare!" Ummm...no...what you got is a legal mandate REQUIRING YOU under penalty to carry insurance. You get the IRS accessing your bank accounts and taking money from you if you dont buy your own healthcare. You get rationed care at best. Ya maybe shoulda read what was passed first. "Whut? Thats not free! We wanted FREE healthcare...as in...its...you know...FREE and stuff..."

The proponents of universal/single payer care ultimately want to get to a system where the wealthy pay all of the costs for their healthcare without regard to cost or impact on the healthcare system. That would be swell...thanks.

 

[ttwtt78640]

the average person also doesn't want to pay more at every level of care than anyone else in the world with poorer outcomes. The PPACA is a POS, though. Hopefully we'll enact real reform before we go bankrupt clinging to the false idea that an essential service with inelastic demand can be efficiently delivered by the market.

Are you kidding me? Are not food, clothing and shelter, not to mention utilities and motor fuel, not also considered to be essential products/services with inelastic demand? When did everything "important" suddenly become a federal gov't power?

What about those US gasoline prices that are so inefficiently delivered by the market?

http://www.statista.com/statistics/221368/gas-prices-around-the-world/

 

[Redress]

*sigh* Yet another thread in not discussion of any meaning (thanks to liberal progressives that can't stomach honest discussion on topic) but rather a devolved glorified, childish name calling session dragged into the gutter by self absorbed boobs.

You called the OP honest. ROFL. That would be like calling one of your threads honest. "Don't read the actual poll data, just take my word for it, I would never leave out important details" j-mac and his selective outrage strikes again. Clue: the OP contained several insults. Can you find them and bitch about them too?

:rofl

 

[Helix]

Are you kidding me? Are not food, clothing and shelter, not to mention utilities and motor fuel, not also considered to be essential products/services with inelastic demand? When did everything "important" suddenly become a federal gov't power?

What about those US gasoline prices that are so inefficiently delivered by the market?

• Gasoline: fuel prices around the world 2013 | Statistic

i agree that we should also replace the oil-based transportation model, and i would support a NASA-type initiative to push the research and infrastructure expansion. right now, the profit is in oil, so there's little motivation to do the planning that we should be doing right now. oil won't be forever, and we should plan for that.

we're already providing health care access to everyone, it's delivered in the most stupid and inefficient way possible (emergency room as primary care,) and you're already paying for it. it would be much better to try something else.

as for your food and clothing analogy, i can buy food or clothes anywhere, and both are relatively inexpensive. plus, i can choose to put off any large purchases. ****, i can grow my own food if i want, and i do. if i need immediate care, though, i have maybe two options, and if i need emergency care, i have about one option. "shopping around" and hospitals having price wars with each other will not and cannot solve this problem.

we need to look at what the rest of the first world is doing, take the best parts of each program, and custom fit a solution. barring that, we need to just expand medicare to cover everyone. a percentage of the country will cry and scream over it, but in fifty years, they'll get over it and we'll just be a normal first world country with a sane health care system.

 

[wbcoleman]

i agree that we should also replace the oil-based transportation model, and i would support a NASA-type initiative to push the research and infrastructure expansion. right now, the profit is in oil, so there's little motivation to do the planning that we should be doing right now. oil won't be forever, and we should plan for that.

we're already providing health care access to everyone, it's delivered in the most stupid and inefficient way possible (emergency room as primary care,) and you're already paying for it. it would be much better to try something else.

as for your food and clothing analogy, i can buy food or clothes anywhere, and both are relatively inexpensive. plus, i can choose to put off any large purchases. ****, i can grow my own food if i want, and i do. if i need immediate care, though, i have maybe two options, and if i need emergency care, i have about one option. "shopping around" and hospitals having price wars with each other will not and cannot solve this problem.

we need to look at what the rest of the first world is doing, take the best parts of each program, and custom fit a solution. barring that, we need to just expand medicare to cover everyone. a percentage of the country will cry and scream over it, but in fifty years, they'll get over it and we'll just be a normal first world country with a sane health care system.

There is a well-developed economic theory of exhaustible resources. Obviously one needs to develop alternatives to resources which will be exhausted in, say, a year. But, a century? Five centuries? In a nutshell, prices tell us when to start exploring for alternatives. And so long as prices for the incumbent resources are far below those of the alternatives, we stick with the existing supply.