Raped Norwegian woman sentenced in Dubai after reporting attack on her. (1 Viewer)

[Infinite Chaos]

A Norwegian woman has spoken out about the 16-month prison sentence she received in Dubai after reporting a rape incident to police.Interior designer Marte Deborah Dalelv was on a business trip in Dubai when she says she was raped.
The 24-year-old reported the March attack to the police but found herself charged with having extramarital sex, drinking alcohol, and perjury. Link

On top of other cases, including the Australian woman sentenced after being raped by colleagues - you just have to wonder at the stupidity of such laws and views.
How any state can hold its head up among other nations when it has a law requiring adult male witnesses to a brutal attack on a woman for that attack to be taken seriously is beyond me. How messed up is this?

Dubai has undergone a rapid transformation in recent years, emerging as a five-star trade and tourism destination with its tax-free salaries and year-round sunshine.It is now one of the world's most cosmopolitan cities with foreign workers and visitors greatly outnumbering the local population.
But it remains a deeply conservative region, and its strict laws have caught out foreigners in the past. Public displays of affection and drunkenness are frowned upon.

Tax free salaries should not be enough to keep tempting people to go there, especially women.

 

[Medusa]

it is called green capitalism

it is more scary than hell

 

[specklebang]

Sharia Law is full of crazy stuff. Like making the victim responsible for the evil-doing of others. We see this and we groan at the stupidity and unfairness.

In America, our cops and our drug dealers work together to victimize us. Then, after they sell us the drugs, we are arrested for possessing them. Now, that's real logic for you.

On top of other cases, including the Australian woman sentenced after being raped by colleagues - you just have to wonder at the stupidity of such laws and views.
How any state can hold its head up among other nations when it has a law requiring adult male witnesses to a brutal attack on a woman for that attack to be taken seriously is beyond me. How messed up is this?



Tax free salaries should not be enough to keep tempting people to go there, especially women.

 

[Arcana XV]

Yeah, it'll be a cold day in hell before I ever set foot in certain parts of the world again. Dubai is one of them. I don't even have words to express how much I loathe certain cultures. PC be damned, mine is superior to theirs.

 

[Red_Dave]

Tax free salaries should not be enough to keep tempting people to go there, especially women.

Hopefully if these cases are publicized enough, people will stop going there and it will provoke a rethink.

 

[Medusa]

Yeah, it'll be a cold day in hell before I ever set foot in certain parts of the world again. Dubai is one of them. I don't even have words to express how much I loathe certain cultures. PC be damned, mine is superior to theirs.

hi arcana
no culture is superior to the other

just freedom is superior

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

hi arcana
no culture is superior to the other

just freedom is superior

In general I'd agree, but there are some cultures that so flagrantly disregard basic human rights that they really are inferior.

 

[Medusa]

In general I'd agree, but there are some cultures that so flagrantly disregard basic human rights that they really are inferior.

so lets say they are inferior because they lack freedom

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

so lets say they are inferior because they lack freedom

Whatever the reason we say they're inferior, they are inferior.

 

[Arcana XV]

hi arcana
no culture is superior to the other

just freedom is superior

Well, my culture values freedom and equality. Theirs doesn't. Therefore, my culture is superior. I have long ago let go of the idiotic lie that all cultures are deserving of respect.

 

[Medusa]

Whatever the reason we say they're inferior, they are inferior.

but they havent gone through a renaissance and enlightenment period as you did


thats why they seem inferior

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

but they havent gone through a renaissance and enlightenment period as you did


thats why they seem inferior

They don't seem inferior. They are inferior. The human beings in them have the same inherent value as human beings in superior cultures, but the culture itself (and the behaviors which support it) is inferior.

 

[Medusa]

Well, my culture values freedom and equality. Theirs doesn't. Therefore, my culture is superior. I have long ago let go of the idiotic lie that all cultures are deserving of respect.

if you keep telling it l have to say your culture is imperialist and thats why it seems superior sorry


what you call "my culture" was formed after the church having lost it effect on society

 

[Medusa]

They don't seem inferior. They are inferior. The human beings in them have the same inherent value as human beings in superior cultures, but the culture itself (and the behaviors which support it) is inferior.

so tell it your government

stop allying with them if they are inferior

 

[DDD]

I was told of various such cases while in Dubai. The thing is that if one could pray Islamic the authorities might take the victim more kindly (especially if it is a guy who had sex or was drunk). The more kinder attitude compared to being jailed for extramerital sex or alcoholic drinks for males is a beat up from police. Then they let you go.

 

[Arcana XV]

if you keep telling it l have to say your culture is imperialist and thats why it seems superior sorry


what you call "my culture" was formed after the church having lost it effect on society

It's 2013. The world has become a global village. Dubai is part of the world community and is actively promoting the country abroad so more foreigners will move or visit there. It is their responsibility to ensure the safety of those people once they are on their soil. There is no excuse for this kind of barbaric, backward, indefensible justice system anymore. Either they step into the 21st century or they issue warnings to all western women to stay the **** away from their messed up country.

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

so tell it your government

stop allying with them if they are inferior

I guess you don't read my posts. I'm critical of both major parties.

 

[Paschendale]

if you keep telling it l have to say your culture is imperialist and thats why it seems superior sorry

what you call "my culture" was formed after the church having lost it effect on society

Actually, that's not it at all. It's cultures where oppressive and regressive religious ideas are in full effect that do this kind of thing. The difference is, as you say, that a lot of Muslim nations have not had an enlightenment. They have not had a secular awakening that we have had. And when we slip back out of ours, our culture goes bad, too. Christian Africa is just as bad as Muslim Africa, because they both take their misogynist religions seriously. The difference in culture is not star vs cross, it's modern secular vs regressive religion.

The inferiority that many posters are discussing in this thread has nothing to do with ethnicity or even religious identity. It has to do with outdated approaches and vile actions. Any culture, regardless of race, religion, or anything like that. Any culture, including ours, that brutalizes women like this, that relies on superstition and fear, that allows a few to exercise such unbridled power over the many, is a bad culture. But it's not in the bones of the people in the bad culture. It's in their minds, and minds can change.

 

[Paschendale]

I want to elaborate on this a little more, actually. I think this is one of the big sticking points between the left and right when we talk about other cultures. The left is often criticized over espousing an idea of moral relativity, and that one culture is just as good as any other. It's not really cultures that are the issue. It's people. The left idea is that any people is as good and as capable of enlightened and moral attitudes as any other people. No ethnicity has culture hardwired into them. Any people can change and evolve and become better. This is true of everyone.

There are some cultures that are bad right now. But they have not always been bad, and they will not always be bad. And to be good or bad does not mean giving up your cultural nuances. It doesn't mean changing your diet, language, customs, or even values. The individualist nature of the United States is no better or worse than the cooperative one of Japan. But the actions we take based on those values certainly can be better or worse. Morality and progress are not intrinsic to an ethnicity or culture, nor is barbarism. Every culture can grow into a better version of itself. That is what the left means when it talks about moral relativity and equality between cultures. Every culture can become better than it is, and every culture has been worse in the past. Dubai and the UAE will not become better by becoming more American. It will become better by becoming better Arabs.

A good first step would be to not lock up rape victims. We became better when we stopped doing that. We'd become worse if we started doing it again.

 

[Arcana XV]

I want to elaborate on this a little more, actually. I think this is one of the big sticking points between the left and right when we talk about other cultures. The left is often criticized over espousing an idea of moral relativity, and that one culture is just as good as any other. It's not really cultures that are the issue. It's people. The left idea is that any people is as good and as capable of enlightened and moral attitudes as any other people. No ethnicity has culture hardwired into them. Any people can change and evolve and become better. This is true of everyone.

There are some cultures that are bad right now. But they have not always been bad, and they will not always be bad. And to be good or bad does not mean giving up your cultural nuances. It doesn't mean changing your diet, language, customs, or even values. The individualist nature of the United States is no better or worse than the cooperative one of Japan. But the actions we take based on those values certainly can be better or worse. Morality and progress are not intrinsic to an ethnicity or culture, nor is barbarism. Every culture can grow into a better version of itself. That is what the left means when it talks about moral relativity and equality between cultures. Every culture can become better than it is, and every culture has been worse in the past. Dubai and the UAE will not become better by becoming more American. It will become better by becoming better Arabs.

A good first step would be to not lock up rape victims. We became better when we stopped doing that. We'd become worse if we started doing it again.

Eaxctly. Thank you for putting it in much more level-headed terms than I ever could. I just get too angry when I read stories like the one in the OP. You're absolutely right. All cultures go through stages. Pointing out which cultures are in dire need of improvement should be encouraged rather than silenced for the sake of political correctness.

 

[Fallenangel]

Every culture can become better than it is, and every culture has been worse in the past. Dubai and the UAE will not become better by becoming more American. It will become better by becoming better Arabs.

A good first step would be to not lock up rape victims. We became better when we stopped doing that. We'd become worse if we started doing it again.

I just want to clear something here;
a. What do you mean by "better Arabs"?
b. You suggested them to apply a contemporary Western system of values and law - this supposedly contradicts your original point.
Unless, "better Arabs" means democratization of their society to achieve Western standards, values etc.

Cheers,
Fallen.

 

[Medusa]

It's 2013. The world has become a global village. Dubai is part of the world community and is actively promoting the country abroad so more foreigners will move or visit there. It is their responsibility to ensure the safety of those people once they are on their soil. There is no excuse for this kind of barbaric, backward, indefensible justice system anymore. Either they step into the 21st century or they issue warnings to all western women to stay the **** away from their messed up country.

true but calling your own culture superior was childish

 

[Arcana XV]

true but calling your own culture superior was childish

My culture is superior. I can't think of one redeeming quality about theirs. Can you?

 

[Paschendale]

I just want to clear something here;
a. What do you mean by "better Arabs"?
b. You suggested them to apply a contemporary Western system of values and law - this supposedly contradicts your original point.
Unless, "better Arabs" means democratization of their society to achieve Western standards, values etc.

Cheers,
Fallen.

Because I'm talking about human values, not western, eastern or Arab values. Punishing women for being the victims of rape is against human values. Western culture as well as Middle Eastern culture are both in need of a lot of growing in order to truly align with human values. Yes, I am arguing a universal morality. I do that.

true but calling your own culture superior was childish

Ours is superior... for the moment. I hope in the near future we will be equivalent, and both be better than we are right now.

My culture is superior. I can't think of one redeeming quality about theirs. Can you?

Sure. Beautiful art, music, and literature. I'm sure that there are some aspects of their law (probably unrelated to punishing people for crimes) that are superior to ours. Maybe they have really good mortgage system that strikes a more equitable balance between lender and borrower than we do. To write off an entire culture and declare it lacking in any value is exactly what we should not be doing. It is important to recognize the good with the bad, and to celebrate the good and fix the bad. Their bad really sucks and needs to be addressed. Our bad does, too. But both our goods are worth celebrating. We should never ignore the good because of the bad, and never use the good as an excuse to trivialize the bad. That is, honestly, why comparing cultures as better or worse is so difficult. It is only because the bad in a country like the UAE is so bad that such a comparison is legitimate. Compare the US, Canada, England, and Australia. Can you really declare one better? I doubt it.

Writing off other cultures is what chest thumping pseudo patriots do.

 

[Medusa]

My culture is superior. I can't think of one redeeming quality about theirs. Can you?

your culture is trying to pass bills to ban abortion while letting teenagers get pregnant at age 14