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Racist Paedophile ring [W:348 & 389]

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Re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

A shame you feel that way IC.

From the report:

"In the broader organisational context, however, there was a widespread perception that messages conveyed by some senior people in the Council and also the Police, were to 'downplay' the ethnic dimensions of CSE. Unsurprisingly, frontline staff appeared to be confused as to what they were supposed to say and do and what would be interpreted as 'racist'. From a political perspective, the approach of avoiding public discussion of the issues was ill judged."

"There was too much reliance by agencies on traditional community leaders such as elected members and imams as being the primary conduit of communication with the Pakistani-heritage community. The Inquiry spoke to several Pakistani-heritage women who felt disenfranchised by this and thought it was a barrier to people coming forward to talk about CSE. Others believed there was wholesale denial of the problem in the Pakistani-heritage community in the same way that other forms of abuse were ignored. Representatives of women's groups were frustrated that interpretations of the Borough's problems with CSE were often based on an assumption that similar abuse did not take place in their own community and therefore concentrated mainly on young white girls."

"Both women and men from the community voiced strong concern that other than two meetings in 2011, there had been no direct engagement with them about CSE over the past 15 years, and this needed to be addressed urgently, rather than 'tiptoeing' around the issue."

"She also reported in 2006 that young people in Rotherham believed at that time that the Police dared not act against Asian youths for fear of allegations of racism. This perception was echoed at the present time by some young people we met during the Inquiry, but was not supported by specific examples."

"Several people interviewed expressed the general view that ethnic considerations had influenced the policy response of the Council and the Police, rather than in individual cases. One example was given by the Risky Business project Manager (1997- 2012) who reported that she was told not to refer to the ethnic origins of perpetrators when carrying out training. Other staff in children’s social care said that when writing reports on CSE cases, they were advised by their managers to be cautious about referring to the ethnicity of the perpetrators."

Don't take this the wrong way, but If you cannot draw out the portions of 'PC fear' from the above, it is good that you leave the thread. It doesn't matter where the message came from, it was still central to the failings of those in positions of authority.

Paul

Paul - I have never stated that "political correctness" wasn't part of the problem - but the original problem was disbelief by senior police officers. I've stated this repeatedly.

The second and third reports were affected by political correctness. I have also stated that repeatedly and it is the repeat nature of much of the discussion with accusations ignoring just what I said that makes continuing pointless.

I have no problem with you as a poster, we can disagree honestly and without any hint of personal attack but there is so much dishonesty whenever the word "muslim" comes up that I'd rather explore the other 99% of events that affect life in Europe.
 
Re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

Paul - I have never stated that "political correctness" wasn't part of the problem - but the original problem was disbelief by senior police officers. I've stated this repeatedly.

The second and third reports were affected by political correctness. I have also stated that repeatedly and it is the repeat nature of much of the discussion with accusations ignoring just what I said that makes continuing pointless.

I have no problem with you as a poster, we can disagree honestly and without any hint of personal attack but there is so much dishonesty whenever the word "muslim" comes up that I'd rather explore the other 99% of events that affect life in Europe.

I think the trouble in this thread is people keep dealing in 'absolutes'. AS if for something to be true, or correct, or valid to aid a more substantive point-- has to be 'absolutely' 100% of something. That is simply ridiculous when trying to build a position. For example, your initial statement above: "I have never stated that "political correctness" wasn't part of the problem - but the original problem was disbelief by senior police officers. I've stated this repeatedly".

We cannot be sure to what extent the PC aspect impacted on the resultant investigation. But what we can then do, is ask ourselves a series of questions and work from facts, to build the picture, a picture that will hopefully give us some inkling to the 'size of the problem'. If we start with some indisputable facts: A -at least 1400 victims B- the abuse spanned from 1997 until 2013(?) C- many agencies have admitted to inaction D-the wider community raised concerns with many turning a blind eye. With just these simple facts (and I hope you take them as facts) otherwise it will mean bringing up link- after- link, it should point you on the way to be reasonably confident--to say PC--was at work, and had a considerable impact.

This then should move you to look at the more contestable evidence. Accepting as we should, that 'absolutes' play no part in our inquiry, I venture to suggest 'there is a problem for the Asian community'. It is vital to my hypothesis, that you accept 'models of paedophilia'. That is to say, (like a previous link showed) it is wrongheaded to lump this case(s) with ALL other acts of paedophilia. Now you may say 'that is making a special case for Muslims' you may say 'that is expecting and applying different standards for Muslims' you may say 'I'm simply applying a racist attitude towards a minority community', I hope, you can take it at face value, that you'd be wrong on all fronts.

As all acts of paedophilia share similarities, in patterns of behaviour, it is not that which interests me. Rather, it is the dissimilar nature of this case that provides my interest. I will not in any way profess to be an expert in paedophile gangs. But what I can say with some certainty is: show me a level of organisation, and in such numbers, as this demonstrates? Show me a level of complicity and PC, in any other case? I suggest you won't find it. THAT'S what makes this model--a model with it's own parameters.

To the contestable parts. The overwhelming majority of perpetrators are Muslim and Asian. The overwhelming majority of victims are white females. Now of course, you can (and have done) try to -point- to the 'token Asian child, the token black child, the token mixed race child. But that in NO way detracts from my hypothesis, that the perpetrators are misogynistic, racist, paedophiles. You can interchange that list, all you like. It still stands to represent 'to some degree' these offenders. Remember I'm applying this to the offenders from cases in Rotherham, Derby and Oxford. NOT some general hypothesis of paedophilia.

In summary, I think you've approached the subject in a 'general way' when a 'general approach' is the last thing that's needed. Such a 'general approach' will not only allow the action or inaction of a community of the hook, but will do next to nothing to deter future acts. Again, when you have family members of those convicted outside of court "blaming the victims" alarm bells should sound. Such 'closed loop' communities will need prompting. Prompting, to take a hard look at those customs that really do need leaving in the barbaric regions of where they originate from. Examples that should not need bringing to the attention of someone like yourself.

Paul
 
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Re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

I think the trouble in this thread is people keep dealing in 'absolutes'. AS if for something to be true, or correct, or valid to aid a more substantive point-- has to be 'absolutely' 100% of something. That is simply ridiculous when trying to build a position. For example, your initial statement above: "I have never stated that "political correctness" wasn't part of the problem - but the original problem was disbelief by senior police officers. I've stated this repeatedly".

We cannot be sure to what extent the PC aspect impacted on the resultant investigation. But what we can then do, is ask ourselves a series of questions and work from facts, to build the picture, a picture that will hopefully give us some inkling to the 'size of the problem'. If we start with some indisputable facts: A -at least 1400 victims B- the abuse spanned from 1997 until 2013(?) C- many agencies have admitted to inaction D-the wider community raised concerns with many turning a blind eye. With just these simple facts (and I hope you take them as facts) otherwise it will mean bringing up link- after- link, it should point you on the way to be reasonably confident--to say PC--was at work, and had a considerable impact.

This then should move you to look at the more contestable evidence. Accepting as we should, that 'absolutes' play no part in our inquiry, I venture to suggest 'there is a problem for the Asian community'. It is vital to my hypothesis, that you accept 'models of paedophilia'. That is to say, (like a previous link showed) it is wrongheaded to lump this case(s) with ALL other acts of paedophilia. Now you may say 'that is making a special case for Muslims' you may say 'that is expecting and applying different standards for Muslims' you may say 'I'm simply applying a racist attitude towards a minority community', I hope, you can take it at face value, that you'd be wrong on all fronts.

As all acts of paedophilia share similarities, in patterns of behaviour, it is not that which interests me. Rather, it is the dissimilar nature of this case that provides my interest. I will not in any way profess to be an expert in paedophile gangs. But what I can say with some certainty is: show me a level of organisation, and in such numbers, as this demonstrates? Show me a level of complicity and PC, in any other case? I suggest you won't find it. THAT'S what makes this model--a model with it's own parameters.

To the contestable parts. The overwhelming majority of perpetrators are Muslim and Asian. The overwhelming majority of victims are white females. Now of course, you can (and have done) try to -point- to the 'token Asian child, the token black child, the token mixed race child. But that in NO way detracts from my hypothesis, that the perpetrators are misogynistic, racist, paedophiles. You can interchange that list, all you like. It still stands to represent 'to some degree' these offenders. Remember I'm applying this to the offenders from cases in Rotherham, Derby and Oxford. NOT some general hypothesis of paedophilia.

In summary, I think you've approached the subject in a 'general way' when a 'general approach' is the last thing that's needed. Such a 'general approach' will not only allow the action or inaction of a community of the hook, but will do next to nothing to deter future acts. Again, when you have family members of those convicted outside of court "blaming the victims" alarm bells should sound. Such 'closed loop' communities will need prompting. Prompting, to take a hard look at those customs that really do need leaving in the barbaric regions of where they originate from. Examples that should not need bringing to the attention of someone like yourself.

Paul

Paul, whenever a person tries to point out an exceedingly rare exception to try to disprove something, they are attempting to cover up, distract, undermine and otherwise provide the sort of rhetorical interference that prevents people from getting to the actual heart of the matter. When the heart of the matter lies in cultural attitudes, this pattern of is part of an overall plan to support that culture.

If a person cannot discuss that culture without being called a liar for telling the truth, without being called names, without being attacked incessantly, belittled and abused verbally, then the culture flourishes. This is what has occurred in Britain where any sort of frank discussion of the ingrained misogyny and sense of religious and cultural supremacy is met with such verbal abuse that people will even go so far as turn a blind eye to the rape of children in order to avoid it. There is a reason people try to distract away from this fact and that reason is not a genuine concern for the victims.

The radicalization of British Muslims should be a real concern to all who actually love Britain. I know it is for you. What is being taught in Mosques should be a real concern because of the seditious aspect of so much of it. The systematic rape of British children as an expression of cultural supremacy performed so brazenly and without remorse is so vile that anybody who tries to obfuscate the cultural elements involved is part of that problem rather than part of the solution to the problem. Your children are being raped because they are not considered children by those raping them (which makes it something other than classic pedophilia, and so using the term is misleading), and as an expression of contempt for the British. Some of those who provide rhetorical interference share that contempt.

These are barbaric acts by barbaric people. Britain has a future if more people like yourself call it what it is. It doesn't if the purveyors of an intimidating brand of political correctness geared towards making that discussion impossible have their way.
 
Re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

In summary, I think you've approached the subject in a 'general way' when a 'general approach' is the last thing that's needed. Such a 'general approach' will not only allow the action or inaction of a community of the hook, but will do next to nothing to deter future acts. Again, when you have family members of those convicted outside of court "blaming the victims" alarm bells should sound. Such 'closed loop' communities will need prompting. Prompting, to take a hard look at those customs that really do need leaving in the barbaric regions of where they originate from. Examples that should not need bringing to the attention of someone like yourself.

Paul

Interestingly, in the US, if anyone tries to place the blame for a rape on the victim, when it's a classic example of adult male-on-female rape, there is vociferous protest against that accusation, by those whom we commonly call our liberal portion of the population. Are you not seeing the same outrage among your population in this situation? Especially being that it is children in question, I find it hard to believe that people seem to accept this, or at the very least, are somewhat indifferent.
 
Re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

Interestingly, in the US, if anyone tries to place the blame for a rape on the victim, when it's a classic example of adult male-on-female rape, there is vociferous protest against that accusation, by those whom we commonly call our liberal portion of the population. .

I would say that it should also be the liberal position in Britain.

The dogmatic multiculturalist position is quite a different matter, however.
 
Re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

I would say that it should also be the liberal position in Britain.

The dogmatic multiculturalist position is quite a different matter, however.

Interestingly, in the US, if anyone tries to place the blame for a rape on the victim, when it's a classic example of adult male-on-female rape, there is vociferous protest against that accusation, by those whom we commonly call our liberal portion of the population. Are you not seeing the same outrage among your population in this situation? Especially being that it is children in question, I find it hard to believe that people seem to accept this, or at the very least, are somewhat indifferent.

Lizzie, the period has long gone when it was quite simple to attribute a position (left/right) to someone. I feel, we no longer live in a world like that. Gardener has brought up, quite correctly, 'Multiculturalism'. Multiculturalism has supporters from both sides. The right enjoy 'the cheap labour' aspect the left suggest we pay for a colonial past and are pretty much for open borders. Of course, I stress, these broad generalizations. To public reaction? To be honest, on a national scale it is not that dissimilar to what we have here. Anytime someone wants to bring up the 'specifics' of the case, 'racism' follows not to far behind. Because of course, we are constantly reminded 80/90 % of perpetrators are 'white'!!. So the cultural--specific parameters are swamped out. Even more interesting for me, is so obvious, that underneath those doing the reporting--that if a person of colour/Asian mentions we have issues within the 'Asian community' then, and only then, can we follow that line of inquiry:doh very sad.

From a personal perspective, my immediate circle of friends, and friends I've contacted living very near to one of the cities, is a reaction of absolute disgust. What to do about it is another question. I feel very much like our immigration issues, it takes something very dramatic (because of many years or inaction) to get any sort of reaction. Then the 'reaction' will near on always be seen as an 'over-reaction' if that makes sense? I mean, lets say for example: there should be no more Mosques built within England, and ALL Mosques are to go through some form of vetting/control structure. Hell, I could imagine the backlash now! That is how far we are down a path.

These are just thoughts, by the way :)

Paul
 
Re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

Lizzie, the period has long gone when it was quite simple to attribute a position (left/right) to someone. I feel, we no longer live in a world like that. Gardener has brought up, quite correctly, 'Multiculturalism'. Multiculturalism has supporters from both sides. The right enjoy 'the cheap labour' aspect the left suggest we pay for a colonial past and are pretty much for open borders. Of course, I stress, these broad generalizations. To public reaction? To be honest, on a national scale it is not that dissimilar to what we have here. Anytime someone wants to bring up the 'specifics' of the case, 'racism' follows not to far behind. Because of course, we are constantly reminded 80/90 % of perpetrators are 'white'!!. So the cultural--specific parameters are swamped out. Even more interesting for me, is so obvious, that underneath those doing the reporting--that if a person of colour/Asian mentions we have issues within the 'Asian community' then, and only then, can we follow that line of inquiry:doh very sad.

From a personal perspective, my immediate circle of friends, and friends I've contacted living very near to one of the cities, is a reaction of absolute disgust. What to do about it is another question. I feel very much like our immigration issues, it takes something very dramatic (because of many years or inaction) to get any sort of reaction. Then the 'reaction' will near on always be seen as an 'over-reaction' if that makes sense? I mean, lets say for example: there should be no more Mosques built within England, and ALL Mosques are to go through some form of vetting/control structure. Hell, I could imagine the backlash now! That is how far we are down a path.

These are just thoughts, by the way :)

Paul
I think there has been something of a paradigm shift due to Multiculturalism, in that the political philosophy, itself, is predicated upon an archly conservative point of view, yet it has been embraced more by the left than anybody else. Since what is being conserved in conservatism are cultural mores, attitudes and operating structures, multiculturalism is obviously in the business of such since the entire premise is predicated upon the continuing of the practices of the immigrant communities. Since these practices are invariable more conservative than those of western culture in any of a number of fronts from women's rights to gay rights to notions about free speech or the separation of religion and state, what is actually being enabled here is extreme conservatism.

It may be a bit of a catch 22, but when a society has already embraced liberal values more or less, then in order to guarantee their continuation, one needs to CONSERVE them. This apparent paradox leads far too many to see those who wish to preserve liberal values as being the conservatives and those who would destroy them the liberals. Like you said, that whole left/right axis tends to fall apart.

In the case of this particular subject, when I see those who are most authoritarian in nature being the chief proponents of multiculturalism, little bells go off in my head. When these people are virulently opposed to free speech, are misogynistic in their views, and advocate for Sharia in Britain, the bells ring more loudly. When they attack those who point out the cultural elements of this systematic rape of underage girls, the bells ring with such clarity that I tend to draw conclusions as to their purpose. Sure, lots of these people live in Britain, but are they really FOR Britain when everything for which they stand leads in a direction that so obviously undermines everything about Britain that makes it great? It's weird, but if the collective guilt over colonialism has led Britain to the point where being proudly British and liberal is frowned upon and supporting the disintegration of Britain at the hands of illiberal religious fanatics is politically correct, maybe it's time for more people to grok the big picture and reverse those assumptions?
 
Re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

Interestingly, in the US, if anyone tries to place the blame for a rape on the victim, when it's a classic example of adult male-on-female rape, there is vociferous protest against that accusation, by those whom we commonly call our liberal portion of the population. Are you not seeing the same outrage among your population in this situation? Especially being that it is children in question, I find it hard to believe that people seem to accept this, or at the very least, are somewhat indifferent.

We are in a time of a "war of civilizations", a 'clash of cultures" a "war on terror", etc. and rape has long been a symbolic tradition of war. I doubt that rapists in these instance have thought it through but there seems little doubt that these rapes would not only give them a feeling of power over the young women being 'groomed' and raped, but those of their culture as well. And avoiding prosecution only lends to the power they feel and the weakness of the culture they are mocking. Wartime sexual violence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

We are in a time of a "war of civilizations", a 'clash of cultures" a "war on terror", etc. and rape has long been a symbolic tradition of war. I doubt that rapists in these instance have thought it through but there seems little doubt that these rapes would not only give them a feeling of power over the young women being 'groomed' and raped, but those of their culture as well. And avoiding prosecution only lends to the power they feel and the weakness of the culture they are mocking. Wartime sexual violence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That is one narrative. It got noticed from within academia, but (at the time) many were sceptical. The substantive objection was the 'world as a whole' was far to interconnected for his (Samuel Huntington) that is, to make his hypothesis plausible. I would say, 1992 is quite different to 2014, and like much academic theory many are to quick to judge. I would like to see more academic research to carry his theory forward.

Clash of Civilizations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Have you read his book?

Paul
 
Re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

That is one narrative. It got noticed from within academia, but (at the time) many were sceptical. The substantive objection was the 'world as a whole' was far to interconnected for his (Samuel Huntington) that is, to make his hypothesis plausible. I would say, 1992 is quite different to 2014, and like much academic theory many are to quick to judge. I would like to see more academic research to carry his theory forward.

Clash of Civilizations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Have you read his book?

Paul

No, Paul, I haven't read the book but there is, to me, something primeval in these actions, a deep symbolism only an authority on the subject could explain with any certainty.

I doubt though that a couple of decades could be used as a reference for something that has been going on for centuries. BBC has an interesting article on it here. BBC NEWS | In Depth | How did rape become a weapon of war?
 
Re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

Back to the thread:


"When it comes to sex, Alyas Karmani is a plain-speaking man. For a Muslim imam he is breathtakingly so. "Oral sex and anal sex are taboo in the British Pakistani community," he announces matter-of-fact way over gosht palak in his favourite curry-house just up the hill from Bradford University. "Sex is seen as only for procreation and only in the missionary position. More so if your spouse is from abroad."

He is addressing the question of whether a disproportionate number of British Asian men are involved in grooming underage girls for sex. He thinks the answer is "Yes" – which is also very plain-speaking on a subject around which the British policing, political, academic and social work establishment dances with over-sensitive diplomacy."

"One of its key projects is running courses to change the attitude of young British Pakistanis which, Alyas Karmani believes, underlie the cultural assumptions which have led a number of Asians to become involved in the on-street grooming of schoolgirls for sex. Eight men of Pakistani heritage, and an Afghan, were were convicted at Liverpool Crown Court this week of offences including four rapes, 11 charges of conspiracy to engage children in sexual activity and six of trafficking children for sexual exploitation."

Many British Pakistani men live in two worlds," he begins. "The first is encompassed by family, business, mosque. It is a socially conservative culture where there is no toleration of sex outside of marriage, and little emphasis on sexual gratification."

Many are emotionally browbeaten into preserving their family honour by marrying a cousin from their family's village in north-west Kashmir, the part of Pakistan from which the forefathers of Bradford's Asian community originally migrated."

Asian grooming: why we need to talk about sex - Crime - UK - The Independent

edited to add. From 6yrs ago:


"Six years ago, Mohammed Shafiq, who runs the Ramadhan Foundation, a small Muslim youth organisation in Manchester, spoke out about the involvement of British Pakistanis in underage sex abuse crimes. He was roundly vilified by his own community. "I was accused of doing the work of the BNP," he recalls. "I had excrement through my door. I received death threats." His offence was to insist that "to say that ethnicity is not a factor in these crimes is a lie".

Members of Asian grooming gangs, he said, thought "that white girls are less valuable than girls from their own community, which is sick and abhorrent". This grew, he declared, from an assumption among some members of the Muslim community that "white girls have fewer morals".

The reason for inserting this article is it's from 2012. So, in the two years since very little (if anything) was to done to the highlight the patterns of behaviour. Just more evidence.



Paul
 
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Re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

From a personal perspective, my immediate circle of friends, and friends I've contacted living very near to one of the cities, is a reaction of absolute disgust. What to do about it is another question. I feel very much like our immigration issues, it takes something very dramatic (because of many years or inaction) to get any sort of reaction. Then the 'reaction' will near on always be seen as an 'over-reaction' if that makes sense? I mean, lets say for example: there should be no more Mosques built within England, and ALL Mosques are to go through some form of vetting/control structure. Hell, I could imagine the backlash now! That is how far we are down a path.



Paul

As to what to do, I think the first step is to identify the problem instead of being too frightened to address it. The problem is that people are conducting asymmetric warfare against you, and doing so from within your borders. The Mosques are certainly the hubs of this warfare, and it is being conducted along rhetorical lines for the most part currently, but it IS a war because the people conducting it see it as their duty to do so.I think until the British public understands the nature of the war being waged, they have no hope to combat it.

As far as what the government should be doing, I believe the time is right now to round up the Imams who are preaching their hatred and charge them with sedition. Jail them. Deport them. Do whatever it takes to remove their influence. Every time an incident takes place such as the decapitation of this poor woman, investigate the Imam at the mosque attended. Monitor the teachings. Scour the social media. Make it as illegal for them to spread their hatred as you do the common person who might say the wrong thing about them. They have every advantage right now, and it is time to take away that advantage.
 
Re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

As to what to do, I think the first step is to identify the problem instead of being too frightened to address it. The problem is that people are conducting asymmetric warfare against you, and doing so from within your borders. The Mosques are certainly the hubs of this warfare, and it is being conducted along rhetorical lines for the most part currently, but it IS a war because the people conducting it see it as their duty to do so.I think until the British public understands the nature of the war being waged, they have no hope to combat it.

As far as what the government should be doing, I believe the time is right now to round up the Imams who are preaching their hatred and charge them with sedition. Jail them. Deport them. Do whatever it takes to remove their influence. Every time an incident takes place such as the decapitation of this poor woman, investigate the Imam at the mosque attended. Monitor the teachings. Scour the social media. Make it as illegal for them to spread their hatred as you do the common person who might say the wrong thing about them. They have every advantage right now, and it is time to take away that advantage.

They have to do the same with 'no-go' zones. Murders and rapes going unreported in no-go zones for police | Mail Online

This is apparently happening all over Europe but the Brits are, I believe, the most likely to fight back. European 'No-Go' Zones for Non-Muslims Proliferating
 
Re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

Muslim teachings emphasize that men cannot control their sexual urges. Thereby women should hide their sexualities in Burka's. Any woman not wearing Burka's to hide their sexualities is provoking men deemed uncontrollable sexual urges.

Suddenly they are in Britain where females practice their sexualities freely and from younger ages. They may seem like sluts to such Muslims who are trained not to control their sexual urges from from birth.

So then they rape vulnerable perceived "slutty" female populations thinking "Hey I am just a guy that cannot control his urges! Not my fault if she provokes me with her sexuality like that!" The worst part is when authorities agree to their mentality and do nothing against pedophile rapists!
 
Re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

An update:

"The chief executive of Rotherham Council is to step down following a report that exposed the scale of child sexual exploitation in the town.

Martin Kimber will leave the post in December, he has announced.

In a statement, he said wanted to reiterate his "sincere apology to those who were let down".


BBC News - Rotherham child abuse: Martin Kimber, council chief exec, to step down

I don't expect him to be the last.
 
Re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

BBC News - Oxford exploitation trial: Guilty verdicts over child rapes

I have deliberately included 'Racist' in the title of this thread as all the guilty offenders were Asian, and mainly from the Pakistani community, and there victims were all young White girls. The crimes are absolutely despicable. As far as I can see, there looks to be no charges for racism, on top of all other charges; I wonder why?

Paul
Where's the racism? Just because the girls were white doesn't make it racist.
Can't you see it? Pedophilia itself isn't enough to worry about, but when you insert the most sinister of all crimes (racism) it suddenly becomes a big deal.

:roll:
 
Re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

An update: Sept 09/14

"A conversation between South Yorkshire’s top policeman and the man who ran Rotherham council triggered moves to discipline the researcher who first uncovered a sex-grooming crisis in the town, it is revealed today.

Evidence that the men at the very top of each organisation discussed a claim that growing numbers of children were “being left at risk and their abusers unapprehended” has been found by The Times in records of staff meetings held more than a dozen years ago."

Rotherham council chief and officer

Unfortunately, as I'm not a Times subscriber I had to buy the paper edition. Hence the above is just a small snippet. It goes on to say, community sensibilities were put ahead of the victims, fact. Remember these were the 'two most senior' persons in charge at that time, a point that cannot be over-emphasised. Because of the inaction, over a dozen years ago, many, many young girls went on to become victims.

Paul
 
Re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

An update: From the home affairs select committee,

"The former chief constable of South Yorkshire Police has told MPs he "singularly failed" victims of child abuse in Rotherham.

Meredydd Hughes was questioned by the Home Affairs Select Committee about how authorities dealt with child sexual exploitation in the town.

A report found at least 1,400 children were abused from 1997-2013.

The committee will also question police and crime commissioner Shaun Wright, who has resisted calls to resign.

Mr Hughes, who was chief constable from 2004-11, said he had "no understanding of the scale and scope of what was going on in Rotherham".

The committee were less than impressed:

This is not something I would have given a blind eye to, nor something I would have wilfully ignored," he told committee chairman Keith Vaz.

During terse exchanges, Mr Vaz said: "The committee doesn't accept that you didn't know anything about child grooming in your area."

He said the former chief constable's claims of ignorance were "impossible to believe".

Mr Hughes said to the "best of his memory" he had not seen three of the four reports that highlighted the problem of child grooming in Rotherham during the period he was chief constable.

He told the committee: "This is a hideous crime, I am deeply embarrassed, I can say with honesty I had no idea of the scale and scope of this."

Mr Vaz told Mr Hughes: "We find your evidence totally unconvincing.

BBC News - Ex Rotherham police chief 'failed' abuse victims

I watched it live. He rightfully had a good grilling.

Paul
 
Re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

An update: From the home affairs select committee,

"The former chief constable of South Yorkshire Police has told MPs he "singularly failed" victims of child abuse in Rotherham.

Meredydd Hughes was questioned by the Home Affairs Select Committee about how authorities dealt with child sexual exploitation in the town.

A report found at least 1,400 children were abused from 1997-2013.

The committee will also question police and crime commissioner Shaun Wright, who has resisted calls to resign.

Mr Hughes, who was chief constable from 2004-11, said he had "no understanding of the scale and scope of what was going on in Rotherham".

The committee were less than impressed:

This is not something I would have given a blind eye to, nor something I would have wilfully ignored," he told committee chairman Keith Vaz.

During terse exchanges, Mr Vaz said: "The committee doesn't accept that you didn't know anything about child grooming in your area."

He said the former chief constable's claims of ignorance were "impossible to believe".

Mr Hughes said to the "best of his memory" he had not seen three of the four reports that highlighted the problem of child grooming in Rotherham during the period he was chief constable.

He told the committee: "This is a hideous crime, I am deeply embarrassed, I can say with honesty I had no idea of the scale and scope of this."

Mr Vaz told Mr Hughes: "We find your evidence totally unconvincing.

BBC News - Ex Rotherham police chief 'failed' abuse victims

I watched it live. He rightfully had a good grilling.

Paul

I was attacked again and again on this thread for stating that disbelief by senior Police officers was the origin for the first paedophile report being shelved. It was not political correctness at this stage.

Funny how facts seem only to corroborate facts I presented.

Here's something else on the senior police officer at the time - Meredydd Williams was in the national newspapers for other failings in 2010 and not taking public concerns seriously which led to a suicide by a mother who turned to the police repeatedly for help from abusive neighbours which he ignored.

[h=1]Gordon Brown slaps down Chief Constable Meredydd Hughes over Asbo claims[/h][h=2]A chief constable, Meredydd Hughes, who was accused of not taking anti-social behaviour seriously enough has been slapped down by Gordon Brown.[/h]
snip--

Questioned over the Doncaster sisters' concerns earlier this month, Mr Hughes said things should be kept "in perspective", adding "nobody’s being murdered, nobody’s being assaulted, nobody’s being robbed”.

That came despite Mr Hughes previously insisting there would not be a case like Fiona Pilkington under his watch, in reference to the Leicestershire mother who killed herself and her disabled in 2007 after feeling a decade of abuse from local youths had been ignored by the authorities. Link.

 
Re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

I was attacked again and again on this thread for stating that disbelief by senior Police officers was the origin for the first paedophile report being shelved. It was not political correctness at this stage.

Funny how facts seem only to corroborate facts I presented.

Not really. It is not a charge of disbelief, rather of knowing nothing, of the claims. Moreover, the commission totally disbelieved his account, from both his time as deputy and head of the Police. Even if we are to believe his account, it takes nothing away from accepted versions of widespread PC in all other areas, senior or not. The accusations of PC are ubiquitous. I'm sure we haven't heard the last of this. What also came out at the inquiry, there has been 28 more victims come forward.

Paul
 
Re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

These are the victims who were brave enough to come forward and tell their story. The paedophiles convicted were not the only ones involved in the crimes.



Was there a racial element to the story - certainly, where there racist elements to the crime - probably. The victims were nearly all from deeply troubled backgrounds and picked up on the streets.

Huge failures in Rochedale.



The racism is also in refusing to confront the fact that nearly all the paedophiles were Pakistani origin muslims and councillors refusing to confront the ethnic group responsible. I remember the controversy facing Jack Straw when he tried to highlight this issue a few years ago.

I was attacked again and again on this thread for stating that disbelief by senior Police officers was the origin for the first paedophile report being shelved. It was not political correctness at this stage.

Funny how facts seem only to corroborate facts I presented.

Here's something else on the senior police officer at the time - Meredydd Williams was in the national newspapers for other failings in 2010 and not taking public concerns seriously which led to a suicide by a mother who turned to the police repeatedly for help from abusive neighbours which he ignored.

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To be honest IC, I don't really know what your denying/agreeing with anymore. Your posting history in this thread (shown above) shows what you accept. Is it just the 'PC' aspect?

Paul
 
Re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

The racism is also in refusing to confront the fact that nearly all the paedophiles were Pakistani origin muslims and councillors refusing to confront the ethnic group responsible.

The ethnic group responsible? It's racist to not blame an ethnic group? I think you've got things backwards.
 
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