Question re firearms in Illinois

[CRUE CAB]

"Theft" is always ok if it is "with the aid of the police."

Since when?

 

[CRUE CAB]

There is no reason for her to take that legal risk in Illinois.

Again, I do believe she has a foid card.

 

[joko104]

She owns a gun, I think she would have a foid card.

I really don't know how it works in her state.

 

[joko104]

Since when?

Since always if as a legal question. Obviously the police can't prosecute for theft if it because they seized the property themselves. Ethically I have no problem with anything she'd do about it.

 

[grip]

I just read this article that says Illinois has passed a new law on Sunday that requires all private purchases between individuals to get a background check. Basically, the seller must call a state-run hotline to check that a buyer's FOID card is valid before making the sale. It goes into effect Jan1, 2014. The new law also requires all gun owners to report any lost or stolen firearms to local police within 72 hours.

 

[CRUE CAB]

I really don't know how it works in her state.

Clearly.

 

[joko104]

Clearly.

Nor do you. The difference is my suggestions poise NO legal risks regardless of what the law is and your's do.

 

[CRUE CAB]

Since always if as a legal question. Obviously the police can't prosecute for theft if it because they seized the property themselves. Ethically I have no problem with anything she'd do about it.

Yea, but there is that 2A that seems to get in the way of that sort of thing.
As well as a landlord tenant deal that may come up real soon.

 

[CRUE CAB]

Nor do you.

Obviously I do. You as a cop are advocating her commit a crime. I am telling her do just disable the damn thing.

 

[joko104]

Yea, but there is that 2A that seems to get in the way of that sort of thing.
As well as a landlord tenant deal that may come up real soon.

"2A" has no relevancy to whether she would have any legal risks nor would what happens with the firearm effect the outcome of any eviction suit. The eviction suit would be simple enough as an issue. He has no lease. He was given legal notice to leave and did not after the legal-time period. That would be the only legal issue. Any other pissing-match issues would be completely irrelevant. He could sue her over the value of the gun if he could prove she did it - and he couldn't prove it nor would the value of the gun be worth the cost of the lawsuit. He'd never know she did it nor could ever prove it otherwise.

UNLESS she takes it to a gunshop and has it "disabled," and then there is absolute proof she did it. If the bolt/trigger just locks up for whatever reason, there is no proof of anything. He'd never even know unless in a huff he gets it and tries to use it - exactly why she wants it gone or disabled. Chances are if frozen by epoxy he'd never know that happened UNLESS a situation arose where it should not be functional anyway.

Maggie wants a "soft" solution - and I'm suggesting she take no legal or personal safety risks to do so.

 

[joko104]

Obviously I do. You as a cop are advocating her commit a crime. I am telling her do just disable the damn thing.

If she has power of attorney, she would not be committing a crime at all UNLESS it is illegal for her to have it in her physical possession such as transporting it and she does so - plus that creates all sorts of other issues too on the personal/emotional front.

Having the firing pin removed and putting it back is a BAD idea for many reasons. She has to transport it. She has to say it's her's. He obviously would know someone sabotaged it. Its' missing for a while and then returns visibly have been sabotaged? Or he sees it gone, calls the police, and the gun shop calls to check the number and it comes back as a reported stolen gun - putting Maggie in the exact middle she doesn't want to be in. All that is a bad idea.

If she transports it, she needs to get rid of it forever, and let him think it was just stolen by someone. With power of attorney, that is no different than a parent having a child's toy just disappear the parent doesn't want the child to have. Of she should covertly disable it permanently in a way not obvious and leave it there, without it showing as disabled. Neither of those would be illegal since she has power of attorney. Her having power of attorney changes legalities a lot.

The difference between us is for some reason you want it to show as having been disabled by someone - and I don't - and I don't care if the gun is ruined and unrepairable, and you want it repairable and showing as having been sabotaged.

 

[CRUE CAB]

If she has power of attorney, she would not be committing a crime at all UNLESS it is illegal for her to have it in her physical possession such as transporting it and she does so - plus that creates all sorts of other issues too on the personal/emotional front.

Having the firing pin removed and putting it back is a BAD idea for many reasons. She has to transport it. She has to say it's her's. He obviously would know someone sabotaged it. Its' missing for a while and then returns visibly have been sabotaged? All that is a bad idea.

If she transports it, she needs to get rid of it forever, and let him think it was just stolen by someone. Of she should covertly disable it permanently and leave it there, without it showing as disabled. Neither of those would be illegal since she has power of attorney. Her having power of attorney changes legalities a lot.

The difference between us is for some reason you want it to show as having been disabled by someone - and I don't - and I don't care if the gun is ruined and unrepairable, and you want it repairable and showing as having been sabotaged.

Power of Attorney does not trump land lord tenant rights.
Well if she has the tools to take the pin out, do it. But I am thinking she dont.
No matter what, its still HIS PROPROPERTY.
Start taking things, going into his private areas and a good lawyer will make getting him out of that house nearly impossible.

 

[joko104]

Obviously I do. You as a cop are advocating her commit a crime. I am telling her do just disable the damn thing.

Setting aside it would not be a crime since she has power of attorney, where do you get the idea that gluing the bolt in place or taking it is "illegal," but it is "legal" to remove the firing pin? If I removed the starter from your car and kept it (or even laid it on the ground beside your car) you're claiming I hadn't done anything illegal? Really? If I secretly took the firing pins from your firearms I would have broken no laws?

You're so fixated on "don't harm the gun!" you don't seem to be thinking this thru.

 

[joko104]

After thinking it all thru, this is my FINAL thoughts on it.

1. When he isn't there, use the best 2 part epoxy (not super glue) from Home Depot or Lowes. A light coat on the appropriate parts (depending upon the gun) will prevent any instantaneous usage and it likely he'll never know anything happened otherwise.

2. Just take it when he's not there, take it apart enough to make it unusable, and dispose of it in a river or lake dumping the parts at 2 different locations so it could never be reassembled in case the 1 in a million someone found the parts at a location.

Both are simplistic, takes little time, solves the problem and creates no relationship issues or conflicts with her seemingly not in any of it anyway.

And for either one, Maggie would never have any clue about what happened to it. "Gun? What gun? You have a gun?"

 

[CRUE CAB]

"2A" has no relevancy to whether she would have any legal risks nor would what happens with the firearm effect the outcome of any eviction suit. The eviction suit would be simple enough as an issue. He has no lease. He was given legal notice to leave and did not after the legal-time period. That would be the only legal issue. Any other pissing-match issues would be completely irrelevant. He could sue her over the value of the gun if he could prove she did it - and he couldn't prove it nor would the value of the gun be worth the cost of the lawsuit. He'd never know she did it nor could ever prove it otherwise.

UNLESS she takes it to a gunshop and has it "disabled," and then there is absolute proof she did it. If the bolt/trigger just locks up for whatever reason, there is no proof of anything. He'd never even know unless in a huff he gets it and tries to use it - exactly why she wants it gone or disabled. Chances are if frozen by epoxy he'd never know that happened UNLESS a situation arose where it should not be functional anyway.

Maggie wants a "soft" solution - and I'm suggesting she take no legal or personal safety risks to do so.

Taking someones gun that is not PROVEN a threat. Is a violation of his 2A rights.
Wanting a "soft" solution to guns and an eviction? Good luck with that. I will bet the law is pretty close to Florida, if he has been there for over 6 months. He LIVES there. You would have to evict. Lease or no lease.
On top of that the fact he has been living there for 40 years or so, yea, thats going to be a tough nut to crack.
He could start claiming all sorts of things that have to make their way before a judge. She said he as kept track of all the money he has spent or "gifted" to her. Sounds like he knows exactly what he is doing within the bounds of Illinois law as far as staying in that home as long as he can.
And what risk? She has a foid card, put it the car take it to a gun shop with a smith. Take about an hour at most unless its a very complicated gun. Take it back, put it where you found it.
Easy, no muss no fuss. How is he going to know? Takes it to a range, wont fire. Probably come pissed , but at 80 some years old will probably forget by the time he gets around to fixing it.

 

[CRUE CAB]

After thinking it all thru, this is my FINAL thoughts on it.

1. When he isn't there, use the best 2 part epoxy (not super glue) from Home Depot or Lowes. A light coat on the appropriate parts (depending upon the gun) will prevent any instantaneous usage and it likely he'll never know anything happened otherwise.

2. Just take it when he's not there, take it apart enough to make it unusable, and dispose of it in a river or lake dumping the parts at 2 different locations so it could never be reassembled in case the 1 in a million someone found the parts at a location.

Both are simplistic, takes little time, solves the problem and creates no relationship issues or conflicts with her seemingly not in any of it anyway.

And for either one, Maggie would never have any clue about what happened to it. "Gun? What gun? You have a gun?"

Nice, create a dangerous weapon to the user if he ever fires it.
F it, just take it to a welding shop and have the bolt welded to the reciever.:doh:roll:

 

[joko104]

Power of Attorney does not trump land lord tenant rights.
Well if she has the tools to take the pin out, do it. But I am thinking she dont.
No matter what, its still HIS PROPROPERTY.
Start taking things, going into his private areas and a good lawyer will make getting him out of that house nearly impossible.

I explained above why I think removing the firing pin is a bad idea and that is what could get her into a legal mess - nor is that any more legal anyway. "Your honor, I didn't steal his car, I only stole the battery."

Eviction suits are not pissing matches. If he has no lease and is given the required notice to move, he loses. That is an extremely simplistic case for an attorney - though for it she should use one as a buffer.

Any other legal issues are other legal issues for another day and another case if he cared to bring one. Tenants commonly try to defend against expired leases, no lease or unpaid rent claiming the landlord is a rotten person. That doesn't work nor is how tenant-landlord eviction laws work. Right to possession of real property (land/house/apt) is a distinct issue separate from any others.

 

[CRUE CAB]

I explained above why I think removing the firing pin is a bad idea and that is what could get her into a legal mess - nor is that any more legal anyway. "Your honor, I didn't steal his car, I only stole the battery."

Eviction suits are not pissing matches. If he has no lease and is given the required notice to move, he loses. That is an extremely simplistic case for an attorney - though for it she should use one as a buffer.

Any other legal issues are other legal issues for another day and another case if he cared to bring one. Tenants commonly try to defend against expired leases, no lease or unpaid rent claiming the landlord is a rotten person. That doesn't work nor is how tenant-landlord eviction laws work. Right to possession of real property (land/house/apt) is a distinct issue separate from any others.

Have you ever rented a house to someone, or a room?
Not a pissing contest? hahahahahahaha.
And no fair, you said you last post was your FINAL thought.

 

[joko104]

Nice, create a dangerous weapon to the user if he ever fires it.
F it, just take it to a welding shop and have the bolt welded to the reciever.:doh:roll:

Now you're just raging. Apparently you want him to know someone has sabotaged the rifle/shotgun, you want an opportunity for him to think it stolen, and want an opportunity for him to phone it in as stolen while Maggie is on record as having taken it if whoever she takes it to calls in the serial number. Epoxy would work just fine. No reason to have welding on it.

Nothing of it makes it dangerous. It would function or not.

 

[joko104]

Have you ever rented a house to someone, or a room?
Not a pissing contest? hahahahahahaha.
And no fair, you said you last post was your FINAL thought.

:lol: Yeah, I did say that, but I meant as my final thoughts on what she should do, not the topic.

I'm fairly familiar with eviction suits because the deputies talk about them alot as does a couple other people I know in the court system.

UNLESS it is HUD property, the only eviction suits with challenging issues are "breach of contract/lease" eviction suits. The rest are simplistic. The rent was paid or it wasn't. The tenant has a lease or doesn't. The required notice to vacate was given prior to filing the eviction suit or not. "I think she stole/ruining my rifle so I should get to stay there for free forever" doesn't work.

But for now Maggie doesn't want to do an eviction anyway.

Other issues are other issues.

 

[CRUE CAB]

Now you're just raging. Apparently you want him to know someone has sabotaged the rifle/shotgun, you want an opportunity for him to think it stolen, and want an opportunity for him to phone it in as stolen while Maggie is on record as having taken it if whoever she takes it to calls in the serial number. Epoxy would work just fine. No reason to have welding on it.

Nothing of it makes it dangerous. It would function or not.

And what is he going to think with a wad of JB Weld all over the reciever.
Oh, guess what. You will also need a can of brake clean to make sure every last little bit of grease, dirt, oil is off that reciever before applying said epoxy.
And if it works, you wont think he is going to notice that?
"Hey, took the old heater to the range today and it was covered in JB Weld"? Howd that get there, and even a 82 be can probably still rack the bolt.
JB type epoxies are not the best in keeping moving parts from not moving. If its a bolt action, one swift smack with a brass hammer to the handle will break it free.
Trust me, I am a mechanic. I have tried every epoxy known to man and then some up to and including expoxy that is used for radar dish installations.

 

[CRUE CAB]

Well she is just going to have to post what she decides to do.
You gave your advice, I gave mine.
Case closed for now.

 

[joko104]

And what is he going to think with a wad of JB Weld all over the reciever.
Oh, guess what. You will also need a can of brake clean to make sure every last little bit of grease, dirt, oil is off that reciever before applying said epoxy.
And if it works, you wont think he is going to notice that?
"Hey, took the old heater to the range today and it was covered in JB Weld"? Howd that get there, and even a 82 be can probably still rack the bolt.
JB type epoxies are not the best in keeping moving parts from not moving. If its a bolt action, one swift smack with a brass hammer to the handle will break it free.
Trust me, I am a mechanic. I have tried every epoxy known to man and then some up to and including expoxy that is used for radar dish installations.

OK, since it is repairable (in your opinion), then it isn't destroyed, is it? Nor any pieces stolen/taken.

I'm not suggesting JB Weld. I'm suggesting 2 part clear liquid epoxy. I believe that would so mess up the bolt, firing pin, trigger mechanism etc etc it would not be an easy fix at all and would prevent an emotional instantaneous usage. A hammer probably could eventually knock the bolt free, but that doesn't mean it is a working firearm.

IF the firing pin is the solution, then it should NOT be removed, but shaved/filed down so no longer will fire a shell, but isn't noticeably missing.

 

[joko104]

Well she is just going to have to post what she decides to do.
You gave your advice, I gave mine.
Case closed for now.

It will be curious to learn what she decides. When she does.

Care to gamble?

Not as a criticism, I suspect she's not going to do anything about it at this time. She'll likely only pursue something if her Mom gets better and is moving back there. Until then she probably will just try to avoid interaction with him.

If she does something? I think she'll take it and dispose of it, without saying a word to her or him and knowing absolutely nothing about any gun. She's pretty sneaky.

 

[CRUE CAB]

It will be curious to learn what she decides. When she does.

Care to gamble?

Not as a criticism, I suspect she's not going to do anything about it at this time. She'll likely only pursue something if her Mom gets better and is moving back there. Until then she probably will just try to avoid interaction with him.

If she does something? I think she'll take it and dispose of it, without saying a word to her or him and knowing absolutely nothing about any gun. She's pretty sneaky.

Not going to bet on what someone else is going to do, especially a woman.