Putin refuses to meet with Zelensky in Turkey

[Tigerace117]

A good examples of rationalization is when the kid who gets caught talking in class, he defends himself by saying other kids were talking too. This isn't an argument, for he was guilty of talking. He's rationalizing it.

Russia invades Ukraine and commits unspeakable crimes and you rationalize it, like the student, by saying others were doing it too. This isn't an argument, for Russia is guilty of invading Ukraine and committing unspeakable crimes. You're rationalizing.

“Unspeakable” crimes? That’s funny, said crimes are hailed as heroic when the U.S. commits them. So much for them being “unspeakable”.

 

[Juin]

Correct. Its my estimation that a direct Russia-Ukraine negotiations probably will lead nowhere. Ukraine is not in a position to take positions independent of the US. Nor independent of Europe either. Europe has to get on board. So far Trump has tried to conduct mediations with Russia and Ukraine without the Europeans. But Europeans cannot be sidelined just like that. They are capable of pouring billions of dollars in arms into Ukraine; so they cannot be ignored by Russia either. Maybe US, Eu, Russia summit is the format that has any chance

Its pointless because Putin doesn't want peace. He wants Ukraine.

That may be so. Negotiations may be pointless. And not pointless only from the western point of view. It is also pointless from the Russian point of view giving the west has decided Russia is a threat that must be destroyed. But the question is if there is to be negotiations who should be at the table? Ukraine alone vs Russia is pointless, since Ukraine is not its own independent agent. Just US mediating Russia-Ukraine, while sidelining Europe is futile, as Europe is powerful and rich enough to sabotage a deal it is not part of. And Russia will reject a US mediation if it makes it stand down while Europe continues arming Ukraine. Europe, US, Ukraine and Russia have to be at the table

 

[Hamish Howl]

America doesn’t want peace. It wants to carve up Russia, and has since the Romanovs fell and the biggest threat to America’s much cherished capitalist system emerged.

You complaining about warmongering rings a bit hollow when you back Putin no matter what he does.

 

[Roadvirus]

“Unspeakable” crimes? That’s funny, said crimes are hailed as heroic when the U.S. commits them. So much for them being “unspeakable”.

Another thread derailed by Whataboutism.

 

[Tigerace117]

You complaining about warmongering rings a bit hollow when you back Putin no matter what he does.

Putin looks like a ****ing humanitarian compared to, like, the last half a dozen American presidents.

Carter is the last guy America has elected who wasn’t a complete war criminal.

 

[Tigerace117]

Another thread derailed by Whataboutism.

Another thread where American apologists panic when confronted with reality instead of the carefully arranged propaganda the U.S. relies on to dope its populace into compliance.

 

[Hamish Howl]

Putin looks like a ****ing humanitarian compared to, like, the last half a dozen American presidents.

Carter is the last guy America has elected who wasn’t a complete war criminal.

All I'm saying is that you don't have a lot of moral authority if you're pro-Putin when he's invading someone.

You can stop pretending you're better than people now.

 

[Roadvirus]

Putin looks like a ****ing humanitarian compared to, like, the last half a dozen American presidents.

As usual, addicted to Whataboutism & anti-Americanism, you are wrong.

Putzin is the biggest war criminal to walk this planet since Hitler.

 

[Tigerace117]

All I'm saying is that you don't have a lot of moral authority if you're pro-Putin when he's invading someone.

You can stop pretending you're better than people now.

Reagan was complicit in at least three separate genocides and he’s hailed as an “American hero”.

Quite frankly, dude, I’m not buying for a nanosecond any of the posturing about Putin is genuine.

Maybe when the American military and intelligence officers who helped Saddam gas all those Iranian civilians, for example, get dragged off to The Hague I’ll take your posturing seriously….but not before then.

 

[Tigerace117]

As usual, addicted to Whataboutism & anti-Americanism, you are wrong.

Putzin is the biggest war criminal to walk this planet since Hitler.

So close! As already pointed out to you, Ronald Reagan was complicit in at least three separate genocides, so he’d have Putin beat by far in the war crimes category.

 

[Hamish Howl]

Reagan was complicit in at least three separate genocides and he’s hailed as an “American hero”.

Quite frankly, dude, I’m not buying for a nanosecond any of the posturing about Putin is genuine.

Maybe when the American military and intelligence officers who helped Saddam gas all those Iranian civilians, for example, get dragged off to The Hague I’ll take your posturing seriously….but not before then.

Dude, you're supporting a war of aggression/conquest, where Russian missiles are targeting apartment buildings. Let's be clear about that.

So you don't have any room to bitch.

 

[Tigerace117]

Dude, you're supporting a war of aggression/conquest, where Russian missiles are targeting apartment buildings. Let's be clear about that.

So you don't have any room to bitch.

Dude, the U.S. was giving Saddam targeting info so he could toss gas through the window of Iranian civilians, in a war Iraq started so it could grab Khuzestan. Let’s be clear about that—

There was a blatant use of WMDs, and the U.S. was willing to sacrifice the lives of U.S. servicemen to help the aggressor, as what happened to the Stark shows.

And given how the US has gone out of its way to honor scumbags like Eddie Gallagher, who shot up neighborhoods full of civilians for shits and giggles, your claims hold little weight.

And btw, once again, three separate campaigns of genocide trump anything the Russians have done.

 

[Hamish Howl]

Dude, the U.S. was giving Saddam targeting info so he could toss gas through the window of Iranian civilians, in a war Iraq started so it could grab Khuzestan. Let’s be clear about that—

There was a blatant use of WMDs, and the U.S. was willing to sacrifice the lives of U.S. servicemen to help the aggressor, as what happened to the Stark shows.

And given how the US has gone out of its way to honor scumbags like Eddie Gallagher, who shot up neighborhoods full of civilians for shits and giggles, your claims hold little weight.

Yes, yes, that's fine.

You are supporting a man who is invading a neighbor and targeting civilians.

So I don't care about your hypocritical opinions on America, the UK, or whatever. You're supporting the exact same things.

 

[Tigerace117]

Yes, yes, that's fine.

You are supporting a man who is invading a neighbor and targeting civilians.

So I don't care about your hypocritical opinions on America, the UK, or whatever. You're supporting the exact same things.

Yeah, given you apparently have no issue with the use of chemical weapons on civilians, I’m not buying for a second you care about that.

Did Iran stop bordering Iraq at some point? The exact same criteria exist there that you supposedly care about.

Let’s see some evidence Russia used mustard gas, as Iraq did with full U.S. backing.

 

[Hamish Howl]

Yeah, given you apparently have no issue with the use of chemical weapons on civilians, I’m not buying for a second you care about that.

Did Iran stop bordering Iraq at some point? The exact same criteria exist there that you supposedly care about.

Let’s see some evidence Russia used mustard gas, as Iraq did with full U.S. backing.

Outstanding.

You are supporting a war of aggression in which civilians are targeted.

Why you are supporting Russia's evil shit is beyond me, but the fact is that you are in fact doing that.

So your complaints about other countries are hypocritical and meaningless.

 

[Tigerace117]

Outstanding.

You are supporting a war of aggression in which civilians are targeted.

Why you are supporting Russia's evil shit is beyond me, but the fact is that you are in fact doing that.

So your complaints about other countries are hypocritical and meaningless.

Hmm. Apparently you purposefully skipped over the whole “US backed chemical weapons attacks on civilians so Iraq could seize Khuzestan”.

I get it’s awfully inconvenient for your narrative, but that doesn’t make it go away.

 

[iguanaman]

What sanctions do you want him to impose that Biden didnt already enact?

Exclusive: US readies Russia sanctions over Ukraine, unclear if Trump will sign, sources say​

WASHINGTON, May 2 (Reuters) - U.S. officials have finalized new economic sanctions against Russia, including banking and energy measures, to intensify pressure on Moscow to embrace U.S. President Donald Trump’s efforts to end its war on Ukraine, according to three U.S. officials and a source familiar with the issue.
The targets include state-owned Russian energy giant Gazprom and major entities involved in the natural resources and banking sectors, said an administration official, who like the other sources requested anonymity to discuss the issue.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us-re...ar-if-trump-will-sign-sources-say-2025-05-02/

 

[iguanaman]

What “rationalization”? The people yapping loudest about Putin would never, ever, actually risk themselves in the trenches “fighting Russia”. They yap away from complete safety and demand other people fight to the death to amuse them.

Putin is demanding that 1000's of Russians attack Ukrainian positions and are killed or maimed every single day to amuse him. Yet he is too much of a coward himself to fly to Turkey and meet with Zelensky to discuss a ceasefire. Ukraine has made the decision to defend itself from Putin's genocide and is not asking others to join the fight. They only want the weapons they need to defend their population from total annihilation by a genocidal maniac who is trying to emulate his hero Stalin. It seems the least we can do under those circumstances.

 

[Tigerace117]

Putin is demanding that 1000's of Russians attack Ukrainian positions and are killed or maimed every single day to amuse him. Yet he is too much of a coward himself to fly to Turkey and meet with Zelensky to discuss a ceasefire. Ukraine has made the decision to defend itself from Putin's genocide and is not asking others to join the fight. They only want the weapons they need to defend their population from total annihilation by a genocidal maniac who is trying to emulate his hero Stalin. It seems the least we can do under those circumstances.

The US is too cowardly to admit fighting to defend slavery was a great evil, which makes your accusations meaningless.

Ukraine has made the decision to forcibly conscript endless waves of its people in a desperate, failed attempt to reconquer people who don’t want to be a part of Ukraine.

Ukraine has repeatedly demanded the US join the war, so that’s clearly not true.

If the Russians were interested in “totally annihilating” Ukraine’s population they could have done so with ease.

 

[iguanaman]

LOL How did Zelensky handle his face to face at the Oval Office?

By telling Trump the truth about Putin which Trump did not like hearing that. He has since found that Zelensky was 100% correct in saying Putin does not want peace and negotiating with him is futile

 

[iguanaman]

The US is too cowardly to admit fighting to defend slavery was a great evil, which makes your accusations meaningless.

Ukraine has made the decision to forcibly conscript endless waves of its people in a desperate, failed attempt to reconquer people who don’t want to be a part of Ukraine.

Ukraine has repeatedly demanded the US join the war, so that’s clearly not true.

No ancient and tired whataboutisms do not make Putin's genocide in Ukraine acceptable no matter how hard you try. He must be defeated and pay for his crimes.

 

[Tigerace117]

No ancient and tired whataboutisms do not make Putin's genocide in Ukraine acceptable no matter how hard you try. He must be defeated and pay for his crimes.

The international community has refused Western claims of “genocide”, especially given Western complicity in the mass murder campaign in Gaza.

The US honors those who fought to defend slavery constantly every way it can, btw...and no amount of denial can change it

The West shrieked that Hitler “must” defeat the USSR.....and they were utterly crushed. Western demands mean nothing.

 

[iguanaman]

America doesn’t want peace. It wants to carve up Russia, and has since the Romanovs fell and the biggest threat to America’s much cherished capitalist system emerged.

The members of the Russian "Federation" want to carve up Russia and get their independence from Moscow slavery. When Russia collapses many of them will get their wish.

 

[Tigerace117]

The members of the Russian "Federation" want to carve up Russia and get their independence from Moscow slavery. When Russia collapses many of them will get their wish.

Except that’s blatantly false, as by the pathetic failure of the West to create any sort of significant resistance movement anywhere within Russia.

If Russia were ever to “collapse” the last order of the rocket forces would likely be to obliterate the West....which makes such a plan particularly dumb.

 

[gman]

[QUOTE="Tigerace117, post: 1081507792, member:

The West shrieked that Hitler must defeat the USSR.....and they were utterly crushed. Western demands mean nothing.
[/QUOTE]
The West shrieked? The U.S. more than any other western nations had no interest in global affairs and was primarily interested in isolationism. The more you post dumbshit stuff, the dummer you sound. Prior to and after WWII it was Stalin and the USSR whose goal was to establish a communist world with power centered in Moscow. All international communists organizations owed their fealty to uncle Joe. It wasn’t til after WWII that the U.S. finally woke up to the fact that the USSR was just as much a threat to democracy as were the Nazi’s.