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Prosecutors Say Trump Directed Illegal Payments During Campaign

Cardinal

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If trump doesn’t win a second term then his status protecting him from indictment comes to an end.

Trump warned us of what could happen if we had a president under Federal investigation. In 2020 how will voters feel about re-electing a President whose own Justice Department has determined is a criminal?

Federal prosecutors said on Friday that President Trump directed illegal payments to ward off a potential sex scandal that threatened his chances of winning the White House in 2016, putting the weight of the Justice Department behind accusations previously made by his former lawyer.

The lawyer, Michael D. Cohen, had said that as the election neared, Mr. Trump directed payments to two women who claimed they had affairs with Mr. Trump. But in a new memo arguing for a prison term for Mr. Cohen, prosecutors in Manhattan said he “acted in coordination and at the direction of” an unnamed individual, clearly referring to Mr. Trump.

In another filing, prosecutors for the special counsel investigating Russia’s 2016 election interference said an unnamed Russian offered Mr. Cohen “government level” synergy between Russia and Mr. Trump’s campaign in November 2015. That was months earlier than other approaches detailed in indictments secured by Federal prosecutors said on Friday that President Trump directed illegal payments to ward off a potential sex scandal that threatened his chances of winning the White House in 2016, putting the weight of the Justice Department behind accusations previously made by his former lawyer.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/07/...tion=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage
 

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if he broke the law, indict him while he is in office. a president is not above the law.
 

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if he broke the law, indict him while he is in office. a president is not above the law.

Agreed in principle, but the odds of that happening are pretty damn low.

Also, it’s really not if he broke the law. It’s the DOJ’s conclusion that he broke at least two federal laws and are prepared to prove it in a court of law.
 

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Agreed in principle, but the odds of that happening are pretty damn low.

that's true. it's something that we might clarify legislatively in the future if we want to deter the power mad from doing whatever they want with impunity, however.
 

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that's true. it's something that we might clarify legislatively in the future if we want to deter the power mad from doing whatever they want with impunity, however.

The DOJ’s tradition of not indicting a sitting President stems from a culture of administrations not being anywhere near as eminently corrupt as Trump’s. It does make one wonder how that tradition will hold up after trump is gone.
 
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code1211

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You two need to get a room.
 

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Agreed in principle, but the odds of that happening are pretty damn low.

Also, it’s really not if he broke the law. It’s the DOJ’s conclusion that he broke at least two federal laws and are prepared to prove it in a court of law.

Minor correction: broke the same law twice.
 

Helix

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The DOJ’s tradition of not indicting a sitting President stems from a culture of administrations not being anywhere near as eminently corrupt as Trump’s. It does make one wonder how that tradition will hold up after trump is gone.

we're in unmapped territory with Trump.
 

Taylor

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Agreed in principle, but the odds of that happening are pretty damn low.

Also, it’s really not if he broke the law. It’s the DOJ’s conclusion that he broke at least two federal laws and are prepared to prove it in a court of law.
So in other words, it really is if he broke the law.
 

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So in other words, it really is if he broke the law.

Gotta remember it was hateful envious leftie investigators doing the investigating. And they were desperate to come up with a crime so they may well have invented crimes that really are not crimes. I certainly don't trust those clowns. I believe its all just a scam. The bottom line here is the fact that leftwing credibility is always suspect at best. I don't believe anything that they say. Period!
 

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You two need to get a room.

No one forced you to be here, feel free to see yourself out and don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
 

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Gotta remember it was hateful envious leftie investigators doing the investigating. And they were desperate to come up with a crime so they may well have invented crimes that really are not crimes. I certainly don't trust those clowns. I believe its all just a scam. The bottom line here is the fact that leftwing credibility is always suspect at best. I don't believe anything that they say. Period!

Ordering somebody to commit a federal crime is itself a federal crime. If you feel the laws are unfair then I suggest writing your congressman asking him to change the laws.
 

ElChupacabra

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Agreed in principle, but the odds of that happening are pretty damn low.

Also, it’s really not if he broke the law. It’s the DOJ’s conclusion that he broke at least two federal laws and are prepared to prove it in a court of law.

This is going to be an interesting situation, so I'm really curious as to how it will be handled. Given that there's 2 years left for Trump, I wonder how ready legal action could be taken in that short of a timespan considering the gravity of prosecuting a sitting president. I don't think any president should be above the law, so I have no issue with him being prosecuted if there is indeed solid evidence that he did break the law. I can't imagine any American being in favor of not supporting the law over the person if they respect this country as being a nation ruled by law.
 

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Gotta remember it was hateful envious leftie investigators doing the investigating. And they were desperate to come up with a crime so they may well have invented crimes that really are not crimes. I certainly don't trust those clowns. I believe its all just a scam. The bottom line here is the fact that leftwing credibility is always suspect at best. I don't believe anything that they say. Period!

Yes, well known envious leftist Republican Robert Mueller :lamo

I love that you ate up the propaganda so hard you think conspiracy to hide excessive campaign donations isn't a crime. It's fun to watch that.
 

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This is going to be an interesting situation, so I'm really curious as to how it will be handled. Given that there's 2 years left for Trump, I wonder how ready legal action could be taken in that short of a timespan considering the gravity of prosecuting a sitting president. I don't think any president should be above the law, so I have no issue with him being prosecuted if there is indeed solid evidence that he did break the law. I can't imagine any American being in favor of not supporting the law over the person if they respect this country as being a nation ruled by law.

It's easy to imagine when you remember that 63 million people voted for the winning candidate as a protest or as an expression of hatred for Clinton (same result either way). So when I said, "In 2020 how will voters feel about re-electing a President whose own Justice Department has determined is a criminal?" I wasn't including trump supporters because they've made it perfectly clear how they feel about it. I don't wonder what they'll do in 2020.
 

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Yes, well known envious leftist Republican Robert Mueller :lamo

I love that you ate up the propaganda so hard you think conspiracy to hide excessive campaign donations isn't a crime. It's fun to watch that.

Was it?
 

Disraeli

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Gotta remember it was hateful envious leftie investigators doing the investigating. And they were desperate to come up with a crime so they may well have invented crimes that really are not crimes. I certainly don't trust those clowns. I believe its all just a scam. The bottom line here is the fact that leftwing credibility is always suspect at best. I don't believe anything that they say. Period!

I find it incredible to read this given Trump's non-stop demonstrable lies. Your assertions are vague, emotional, and highly subjective.

Now to be objective, would be to acknowledge 36 indictments, pleas & guilty verdicts associated with this investigation. The people involved have been intimately involved with the President and some have acknowledged lying about their contacts with a hostile foreign power and the involvement of the POTUS.

As a patriotic U.S. citizen I would think that would concern you.
 

Deuce

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What do you mean was?

In-kind campaign donations exceeding donation limits deliberately hidden is a crime. Directing someone to do this is also a crime. That's not in question by anyone except lunatics.
 

bubbabgone

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What do you mean was?

In-kind campaign donations exceeding donation limits deliberately hidden is a crime. Directing someone to do this is also a crime. That's not in question by anyone except lunatics.

It has to be a campaign contribution first and foremost, and it has to also be hidden in order to be a crime.
Paying off women with your own money doesn't appear to be seen as a campaign contribution by people who know about such things.
Even if someone pleads guilty to it because he thinks that's what he did.
 

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Yes. That was part of the DOJ's sentencing memorandum for Cohen.

52 U.S. Code § 30101

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/52/30101

You can read the details beginning on page 11 under "4. Cohen’s Illegal Campaign Contributions." The detailed explanation goes on into the middle of page 14.

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthe...85a4cc24e25b7ecf4ab/optimized/full.pdf#page=1

It has to be a campaign contribution first and foremost, and it has to also be hidden in order to be a crime. Paying off women with your own money doesn't appear to be seen as a campaign contribution by people who know about such things.
Even if someone pleads guilty to it because he thinks that's what he did.

You're uninformed. Read the part of the memorandum I linked to.
 
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ElChupacabra

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It's easy to imagine when you remember that 63 million people voted for the winning candidate as a protest or as an expression of hatred for Clinton (same result either way). So when I said, "In 2020 how will voters feel about re-electing a President whose own Justice Department has determined is a criminal?" I wasn't including trump supporters because they've made it perfectly clear how they feel about it. I don't wonder what they'll do in 2020.

Sure, but this will be a deeper descent than just voting out of hatred toward a particular candidate; though I suspect some will not care about the precedent they would be setting.
 

Deuce

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It has to be a campaign contribution first and foremost, and it has to also be hidden in order to be a crime.
Paying off women with your own money doesn't appear to be seen as a campaign contribution by people who know about such things.
Even if someone pleads guilty to it because he thinks that's what he did.

Now you're speaking about a specific case. Whether or not Trump broke this particular law is up for debate. Whether or not it's a crime at all is not.

This was clearly hidden, that's also not a fact that is challenged.
 

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Sure, but this will be a deeper descent than just voting out of hatred toward a particular candidate; though I suspect some will not care about the precedent they would be setting.

I don't see this as a "deeper descent." If you voted against someone purely out of hatred nursed over the course of two decades, you can justify pretty much any act of criminality or immorality.

There's a very good reason why Conservatives haven't answered one fundamental question for the past two years: "What would have to happen for you to withdraw support for Trump?" Their silence has itself always been the answer: there isn't anything Trump could do to lose their support.

So what they think is unimportant.
 

bubbabgone

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Yes. That was part of the DOJ's sentencing memorandum for Cohen.

52 U.S. Code § 30101

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/52/30101

You can read the details beginning on page 11 under "4. Cohen’s Illegal Campaign Contributions." The detailed explanation goes on into middle of page 14.

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthe...85a4cc24e25b7ecf4ab/optimized/full.pdf#page=1



You're uninformed. Read the part of the memorandum I linked to.

I read the law back in August when he took the plea.
That's when I posted the opinion of a prior FEC chairman that said what Trump did wasn't a campaign finance violation.
“My assessment would be that yes, Michael Cohen pleaded guilty to things that probably are not crimes,”
https://www.ntd.tv/2018/08/22/ex-trump-lawyer-cohen-pleads-guilty-in-deal-with-prosecutors-2/
 
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