power grid collapsing in NY

[YoungConserv]

I live in Ontario half the population lives here and the last time I checked nuclear accounted for 75% of this province's power. See your problem is the coal industry that wants to keep power, destroy them and you are free to pursue other energy sources. Every office seems to give different numbers for energy sources so I have no idea what the real numbers are.

If you want nuclear power we need to shorten the approval process inside a year and lift the ban on breeder reactors.

 

[Lord of Planar]

I live in Ontario half the population lives here and the last time I checked nuclear accounted for 75% of this province's power. See your problem is the coal industry that wants to keep power, destroy them and you are free to pursue other energy sources. Every office seems to give different numbers for energy sources so I have no idea what the real numbers are.

Where are you getting that information from?

Ontario produces 27% of Canada's electricity. If they are half the population, they are also importing it from elsewhere.

Ontario power production includes:

21 megawatt Atikokan coal facility

950 megawatt Lambton coal facility

2.76 gigawatt Nanticoke coal facility, the largest coal-fired power plant in North America.

 

[PeteEU]

They are incredibly inefficient vs. cost and as you buy them something new and much more efficient comes along, you know this feeling whenever you buy a computer.

So what? Stuff gets better all the time, and if you keep waiting for the next best thing, then you will never buy anything.

And you can flip that btw... the grid is ancient in most of the US, because the electrical companies and government have refused to upgrade and maintain because they are waiting for the next best technology

 

[Drake McHugh]

We were told that the "stimulus"would go to infrastructure. We should have secure power grids for the money that was spent.

 

[paddymcdougall]

Yep. You just have to customize your setup for your environment and get a good controller for the system. You can't just throw things together without knowing what you're doing and expect it to just work.

Exactly. Our first system was undersized; we got advice from someone who knew solar, but had been living on a boat for 10 years... we had to double the size of our array. But now we're doing fine. We'd like to replace the panels with higher yield ones (technology has improved, costs have gone down). In our dreams we'd like to expand the battery bank, but am really hoping when we next need batteries that there are lighter, better batteries available. But overall, it's working. (note: we're off grid)

 

[paddymcdougall]

We were told that the "stimulus"would go to infrastructure. We should have secure power grids for the money that was spent.

Do you realize how much infrastructure we have in this country? bridges, roads, power transmission, nuclear plants, coal plants, dams, etc etc etc. Stimulus only went so far. It wasn't all targeted to the power grid.

 

[Carjosse]

Where are you getting that information from?

Ontario produces 27% of Canada's electricity. If they are half the population, they are also importing it from elsewhere.

Ontario power production includes:

21 megawatt Atikokan coal facility

950 megawatt Lambton coal facility

2.76 gigawatt Nanticoke coal facility, the largest coal-fired power plant in North America.

My friendly neighbourhood nuclear power plant. We are not importing it either as we have to pay other provinces to take our electricity we generate through wind turbines so they are kind of useless. I also know for a fact we have two more coal power plants in Ontario and both are planned to shut down by the end of this year.

 

[Carjosse]

So what? Stuff gets better all the time, and if you keep waiting for the next best thing, then you will never buy anything.

And you can flip that btw... the grid is ancient in most of the US, because the electrical companies and government have refused to upgrade and maintain because they are waiting for the next best technology

Renewable energy is expensive and the next iterations are always much more inefficient but it is not like your computer where you buy a new one for 1000$ wind turbines have a bureaucracy and cost a fortune of taxpayer dollars for almost useless pieces of scrap metal.

 

[Occam's Razor]

When something has an extremely long half-life, that it's less dangerous, not more dangerous. Because it's radiating slowly.

The reason we haven't solved this problem is people like you freaking the **** out about things that aren't really a problem.

HOLY CRAP! What coloring book did you get that from?

Half life has little to do with how dangerous it is to biological life, only how long that danger exists. For example, is it an alpha, beta or gamma emitter? Is it water soluble, or does it collect in tissues? Is it enriched or is it mixed with other elements or isotopes?

You've proven one thing... a slow intellect is much more dangerous

 

[sawyerloggingon]

My aunt has a mini wind mill and solar panels on her home in the countryside. It generates all her power and she makes money off the grid. Even in the winter she's making power.

The notion that these technologies are "ineffecient" is vastly over-stated and IMO a product of counter-propaganda. Most people who bash these technologies just believe what they read, and have never visited the home of someone who uses them. It might be inefficient to fuel industry but it can certainly power people's homes. We have the technology now for most homes to be living completely off the grid, or actively feeding the grid.

Private industry wants you to believe that small scale solar and wind won't work for your needs so that you'll keep giving them money, and not the other way around.

I have stated over and over that both wind and solar are very efficient on a small scale, it is the wind and solar farms run by corps that receive our tax dollars to prop them up I am against.

 

[Occam's Razor]

I am all for roof top solar but why should congress (tax payers)fund it? It is a good investment and people should do it on their own. On the elec car subject though, your solar panels don't work real well at night when you plug your car in, think this through.

Gawd short sightedness is tedious... There are many ways to address this. During the day when everyone is running their a/c full blast, your solar is feeding into the grid and building credits. At night, when demand is far less, you draw from the grid.

There are two types of people in the world... problem solvers, and those that just bitch about them.

 

[sawyerloggingon]

It's not so much that it's complicated, it's just the fine print. For example, let's say you pick up a set of panels that generates a high enough voltage for this sweet grid-tie controller you found. You'd think it's that simple, but that's just according to the official rating for the panel published by the maker -- depending on the brand they de-rate differently in different climates. So you got the panels that were right according to the literature, but then you install them in your real-world situation and you're not getting the voltage you were expecting.

There are a lot of buyer-beware stuff like that. It's not insurmountable, you just need to either do the reading or hire someone who already knows the ropes.

My solar panels actually produce slightly more than they are rated at in just the right conditions, cool and sunny.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Why should people have to be subsidized? If the technology is that good, then it sells itself.

End corporate subsidies first, then you can complain about helping PEOPLE

 

[sawyerloggingon]

Gawd short sightedness is tedious... There are many ways to address this. During the day when everyone is running their a/c full blast, your solar is feeding into the grid and building credits. At night, when demand is far less, you draw from the grid.

There are two types of people in the world... problem solvers, and those that just bitch about them.

My parents in Calif did exactly what you propose and it is working great but they paid for it themselves, they did not ask congress for money. They did it to draw from credits in winter to pay for their heating and it is working great.

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

Exactly. Our first system was undersized; we got advice from someone who knew solar, but had been living on a boat for 10 years... we had to double the size of our array. But now we're doing fine. We'd like to replace the panels with higher yield ones (technology has improved, costs have gone down). In our dreams we'd like to expand the battery bank, but am really hoping when we next need batteries that there are lighter, better batteries available. But overall, it's working. (note: we're off grid)

Congratulations, I'm glad it's working out for you even if it isn't the perfect setup.

What kind of batteries are you guys using?

 

[Occam's Razor]

My parents in Calif did exactly what you propose and it is working great but they paid for it themselves, they did not ask congress for money. They did it to draw from credits in winter to pay for their heating and it is working great.

BULLSH*T! They got federal and state tax breaks.

Green Building Incentive
Burbank Water & Power - Green Building Incentive Program
City of San Diego - Sustainable Building Expedited Permit Program
City of Santa Monica - Building Permit Fee Waiver for Solar Projects
City of Santa Monica - Expedited Permitting for Green Buildings
County of San Bernardino - Green Building Incentive
San Diego County - Green Building Program
Industry Recruitment/Support
Sales and Use Tax Exclusion for Advanced Transportation and Alternative Energy Manufacturing Program
Leasing Program
Santa Clara Water & Sewer - Solar Water Heating Program
Local Rebate Program
City of San Francisco - Commercial Efficiency Rebates
City of San Francisco - Residential Efficiency Rebates
City of San Francisco - Solar Energy Incentive Program
Marin County - Wood Stove Replacement Rebate Program
Other Incentive
Renewable Auction Mechanism (RAM)
PACE Financing
Local Option - Municipal Energy Districts
California Enterprise Development Authority - Statewide PACE Program
CaliforniaFIRST
City of Palm Desert - Energy Independence Program
City of San Francisco - GreenFinanceSF
Los Angeles County - Commercial PACE
Sonoma County - Energy Independence Program
Western Riverside Council of Governments - Home Energy Renovation Opportunity (HERO) Financing Program
Western Riverside Council of Governments - Large Commercial PACE
Performance-Based Incentive
Feed-In Tariff
City of Palo Alto Utilities - Palo Alto CLEAN (Clean Local Energy Accessible Now)
LADWP - Feed-in Tariff (FiT) Program
Marin Clean Energy - Feed-In Tariff
Property Tax Incentive
Property Tax Exclusion for Solar Energy Systems
Sales Tax Incentive
Partial Sales and Use Tax Exemption for Agricultural Solar Power Facilities
State Grant Program
School Facility Program - Modernization Grants
State Loan Program
Energy Efficiency Financing for Public Sector Projects
State Rebate Program
California Solar Initiative - Low-Income Solar Water Heating Rebate Program
California Solar Initiative - Multi-Family Affordable Solar Housing (MASH) Program
California Solar Initiative - PV Incentives
California Solar Initiative - Single-Family Affordable Solar Housing (SASH) Program
California Solar Initiative - Solar Thermal Program
CEC - New Solar Homes Partnership
Energy Upgrade California
Self-Generation Incentive Program
Utility Grant Program
Alameda Municipal Power - Residential Energy Efficiency Grant Program
Burbank Water & Power - Business Bucks Energy Efficiency Grant Program
Riverside Public Utilities - Energy Efficiency Technology Grant Program
Utility Loan Program
Anaheim Public Utilities - Low-Interest Energy Efficiency Loan Program
City of Palo Alto Utilities - Commercial and Non-Profit Efficiency Loan Program
SCE - Non-Residential On-Bill Financing Program
SDG&E - Non-Residential On-Bill Financing Program
SMUD - Commercial Energy Efficiency Loan Program
SMUD - Residential Energy Efficiency Loan Program
SMUD - Residential Solar Loan Program
SoCalGas - Non-Residential On-Bill Financing Program
SoCalGas - Residential Energy Efficiency Loan Program
Utility Rebate Program
Alameda Municipal Power - Commercial Energy Efficiency Rebate Program
Alameda Municipal Power - Commercial New Construction Rebate Program
Alameda Municipal Power - Residential Energy Efficiency Rebate Program
Alameda Municipal Power - Solar Photovoltaics Rebate Program
Anaheim Public Utilities - Commercial & Industrial New Construction Rebate Program
Anaheim Public Utilities - Commercial Energy Efficiency Rebate Programs
Anaheim Public Utilities - Green Building Rebate Program
Anaheim Public Utilities - PV Buydown Program
Anaheim Public Utilities - Residential Home Efficiency Rebate Program
Anaheim Public Utilities - Small Business Energy Management Assistance Program
Azusa Light & Water - Solar Partnership Program
Burbank Water & Power - Energy Solutions Business Rebate Program
Burbank Water & Power - Residential Energy Efficiency Rebate Program
Burbank Water and Power - Residential and Commercial Solar Support Program
Burbank Water and Power - Solar Water Heater Rebate Program
City of Gridley Utilities - PV Buy Down Program
City of Healdsburg - PV Incentive Program
City of Lompoc Utilities - Commercial Energy Efficiency Rebate Program
City of Lompoc Utilities - PV Rebate Program
City of Lompoc Utilities - Residential Energy Efficient Appliance Rebate Program
City of Palo Alto Utilities - Commercial Energy Efficiency Rebate Program
City of Palo Alto Utilities - New Construction Residential Rebate Program
City of Palo Alto Utilities - PV Partners
City of Palo Alto Utilities - Smart Energy Rebate Program
City of Palo Alto Utilities - Solar Water Heating Program
City of Shasta Lake Electric Utility - PV Rebate Program
Corona Department of Water & Power - Solar Partnership Rebate Program
Glendale Water and Power - Energy Efficiency Appliance Rebate Program
Glendale Water and Power - Large Business Energy Efficiency Program
Glendale Water and Power - Small Business Energy Efficiency Rebate Program
Glendale Water and Power - Solar Solutions Program
Hercules Municipal Utility - PV Rebate Program
Hercules Municipal Utility - Residential Energy Efficiency Rebate Program
IID Energy - Commercial Rebate Program
IID Energy - New Construction Energy Efficiency Program
IID Energy - PV Solutions Rebate Program
IID Energy - Residential Energy Efficiency Rebate Program
LADWP - Non-Residential Custom Performance Program
LADWP - Residential Energy Efficiency Rebate Program
LADWP - Solar Incentive Program
Lassen Municipal Utility District - PV Rebate Program
Lassen Municipal Utility District - Residential Energy Efficiency Rebate Program
Lodi Electric Utility - Commercial Energy Efficiency Rebate Program
Lodi Electric Utility - PV Rebate Program
Lodi Electric Utility - Residential Energy Efficiency Rebate Program
Merced Irrigation District - PV Buydown Program
Modesto Irrigation District - Commercial Energy Efficiency Rebate Program
Modesto Irrigation District - Commercial New Construction Rebate Program
Modesto Irrigation District - Custom Commercial Energy Efficiency Rebate Program
Modesto Irrigation District - New Home Energy Efficiency Rebate Program
Modesto Irrigation District - Photovoltaic Rebate Program
Modesto Irrigation District - Residential Energy Efficiency Rebate Program
Moreno Valley Electric Utility - Solar Electric Incentive Program
Pacific Power - Energy FinAnswer
Pacific Power - FinAnswer Express
Pacific Power - Home Energy Savings Program For Builders
Pacific Power - PV Rebate Program
Pacific Power - Residential Energy Efficiency Rebate Programs
Pasadena Water and Power - Commercial Energy Efficiency Rebate Program
Pasadena Water and Power - Residential Energy Efficiency Rebate Program
Pasadena Water and Power - Solar Power Installation Rebate
PG&E (Gas) - Multi-Family Residential Energy Efficiency Rebates
PG&E (Gas) - Non-Residential Energy Efficiency Rebates
PG&E (Gas) - Residential Energy Efficiency Rebate Programs
PG&E - California Advanced Homes Incentives
PG&E - Multi-Family Residential Energy Efficiency Rebates
PG&E - Non-Residential Energy Efficiency Rebates
PG&E - Residential Energy Efficiency Rebate Programs
Plumas-Sierra REC - PV Rebate Program
Plumas-Sierra REC - Residential Energy Efficiency Rebate Program
Redding Electric - Earth Advantage Rebate Program
Redding Electric - Residential and Commercial Energy Efficiency Rebate Program
Riverside Public Utilities - Commercial Energy Efficiency Rebate Program
Riverside Public Utilities - Energy Efficiency Construction Incentive
Riverside Public Utilities - Non-Residential PV Incentive Program
Riverside Public Utilities - Residential Energy Efficiency Rebate Program
Riverside Public Utilities - Residential PV Incentive Program
Roseville Electric - Commercial Energy Efficiency Rebate Program
Roseville Electric - Residential Energy Efficiency Rebate Program
Roseville Electric - Residential New Construction Rebate Program
Roseville Electric - Solar Rebate Program
Savings by Design (Offered by five Utilities)
SCE - California Advanced Homes Incentives
SCE - Multi-Family Residential Energy Efficiency Programs
SCE - Non-Residential Energy Efficiency Programs
SCE - Residential Energy Efficiency Rebate Program
SDG&E (Electric) - Energy Efficiency Business Rebates
SDG&E (Electric) - Multi-Family Residential Efficiency Program
SDG&E (Gas) - Energy Efficiency Business Rebates
SDG&E - California Advanced Homes Incentives
SDG&E - Residential Efficiency Rebate Program
Silicon Valley Power - Commercial Energy Efficiency Rebate Program
Silicon Valley Power - Residential Energy Efficiency Rebate Program
Silicon Valley Power - Solar Electric Buy Down Program
SMUD - Commercial Energy Efficiency Rebate Program
SMUD - Non-Residential PV Incentive Program
SMUD - PV Residential Retrofit Buy-Down
SMUD - Residential Energy Efficiency Rebate Program
SMUD - Solar Water Heater Rebate Program
SoCalGas - California Advanced Homes Incentives
SoCalGas - Custom Non-Residential Energy Efficiency Program
SoCalGas - Multi-Family Residential Rebate Program
SoCalGas - Non-Residential Energy Efficiency Rebate Programs
SoCalGas - Residential Energy Efficiency Rebate Programs
Truckee Donner Public Utility District - Energy Conservation Rebate Program
Truckee Donner PUD - Photovoltaic Buy Down Program
Turlock Irrigation District - PV Rebate
Turlock Irrigation District - Residential Energy Efficiency Rebate Program
Ukiah Utilities - PV Buydown Program

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

Do you realize how much infrastructure we have in this country? bridges, roads, power transmission, nuclear plants, coal plants, dams, etc etc etc. Stimulus only went so far. It wasn't all targeted to the power grid.

The government doesn't maintain the power grid, nor should it. We pay enough for "delivery" of our power even before we pay for the power itself that the power companies should have been managing just fine with upgrading things, they just like to keep the extra back.

When the east coast went dark a few years back, it was specifically because the power companies had held back on upgrades for something like 20 years, so when that plant in Canada went down the only thing the grid could do to protect itself was shut down -- using a system of giant throw-switches activated by blasting caps. Sheesh.

 

[YoungConserv]

End corporate subsidies first, then you can complain about helping PEOPLE

What do you consider a subsidy them actually getting money or them being able to front load the right off of depreciation of machinery?

 

[paddymcdougall]

Congratulations, I'm glad it's working out for you even if it isn't the perfect setup.

What kind of batteries are you guys using?

We're using Trojan L16RE 2 volts marine batteries; we have 12 of them.

We had Trojans initially; tried Surrettes which did NOT work out well for us; so are back on Trojans and are happier.

I think when it comes to off-grid power, no one is perfectly happy!

 

[sawyerloggingon]

BULLSH*T! They got federal and state tax breaks.

Long post to make a short point.:lol: Yes they got tax breaks but not cash subsidies and land grants like these wind and solar farms get. I am fine with tax breaks to produce clean energy but not cash handouts to subsidize an industry that just can't compete in a free market.

 

[PeteEU]

Renewable energy is expensive and the next iterations are always much more inefficient but it is not like your computer where you buy a new one for 1000$ wind turbines have a bureaucracy and cost a fortune of taxpayer dollars for almost useless pieces of scrap metal.

Sounds like someone working in the oil/coal industry.

Is renewable energy perfect? Of course not, there are costs, both monetary and other costs, but it is the future. Oil is running out, and no amount of fracking and poisoning the water table will change that. Finding alternative ways of feeding our power need must be the number one thing any country should be doing. Investing in new oil base technology is a waste of money compared to investing in renewable technology.

Just think if every home and business in the Arizona, California, Nevada, New Mexico and Texas had solar panels on their roofs feeding into the grid? The amount of oil/coal that was saved (not to mention less pollution) would be massive and it would be a cash cow for the individual consumer.

 

[sawyerloggingon]

We're using Trojan L16RE 2 volts marine batteries; we have 12 of them.

We had Trojans initially; tried Surrettes which did NOT work out well for us; so are back on Trojans and are happier.

I think when it comes to off-grid power, no one is perfectly happy!

I have 6 Trojans on their 7th year. I am going to upgrade to 8 batteries before winter. At $100 bucks a piece I think they are a bargain.

 

[paddymcdougall]

The government doesn't maintain the power grid, nor should it. We pay enough for "delivery" of our power even before we pay for the power itself that the power companies should have been managing just fine with upgrading things, they just like to keep the extra back.

When the east coast went dark a few years back, it was specifically because the power companies had held back on upgrades for something like 20 years, so when that plant in Canada went down the only thing the grid could do to protect itself was shut down -- using a system of giant throw-switches activated by blasting caps. Sheesh.

I agree power companies need to invest in their infrastructure. Totally agree with that.

However, the govt also does play a role, particularly in helping to protect against terrorist attacks and in working with power companies to make sure they are doing the right things. We have a DOE for a reason.
Infrastructure Security and Energy Restoration (ISER) | Department of Energy

 

[Lord of Planar]

End corporate subsidies first, then you can complain about helping PEOPLE

End both.

 

[paddymcdougall]

I have 6 Trojans on their 7th year. I am going to upgrade to 8 batteries before winter. At $100 bucks a piece I think they are a bargain.

I think Trojans are really reliable and can take a beating. We killed our first set early through ignorance and too small of an array, but this newest set should last awhile. Or at least I hope so! at 125 pounds each, I really hate replacing them.... and that's "weight" pounds, not the British pound currency!