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Pope Says NATO May Have Caused Russia’s Invasion of Ukraine

Checkerboard Strangler said:
Imperialism? Amazing how the Far Right and the alt-Left are kissing so sweetly now.
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Alt Left? They're the traditional Left, and it's you who are the newly minted Alt Left, with new political positions far from traditional Left political positions.

Traditional American Left = freedom of speech
Checkerboard Strangler & Co = ban, cancel
 
sanman said:
Alt Left? They're the traditional Left, and it's you who are the newly minted Alt Left, with new political positions far from traditional Left political positions.

Traditional American Left = freedom of speech
Checkerboard Strangler & Co = ban, cancel
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A very amusing accusation with zero to back it up.
 
sanman said:
Flash in the pan, absolutely nothing. I have dental cavities older than Ukraine. So do many "Ukrainians"
Donbass is separate since 2014. That's one third of the lifespan of Ukraine, as if Ukraine's lifespan is of some special importance.
So-called unified "Ukraine" is from 1991-2014 (23 years)
Independent Donbass is from 2014-2022 (8 years)

8 ~ 1/3 of 23

The creation of an independent Donbass is what separated from from Ukraine and reunited them with Russia. Who are NATO to disagree?

The non-Russians are also free to emigrate. Works both ways.
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Donbas is STILL internationally recognized as Ukraine territory. As is Crimea.

There was no "independent" Donbas. That is an invention of Putin.
 
Tigerace117 said:
I sure do wonder why he’d have an issue with our actions 🙄....

“State Department documents obtained in 2003 during the George W. Bush administration by the National Security Archive under the Freedom of Information Act show that in October 1976 Secretary of State Henry Kissinger and other high-ranking U.S. officials gave their full support to the Argentine military junta and urged them to hurry up and finish their actions before the Congress cut military aid.[136] On 5 October 1976, Kissinger met with Argentina's Foreign Minister and stated:

Look, our basic attitude is that we would like you to succeed. I have an old-fashioned view that friends ought to be supported. What is not understood in the United States is that you have a civil war. We read about human rights problems but not the context. The quicker you succeed the better. [...] The human rights problem is a growing one. Your Ambassador can apprise you. We want a stable situation. We won't cause you unnecessary difficulties. If you can finish before Congress gets back, the better. Whatever freedoms you could restore would help.[136]”

From previous source.

And before someone starts crying about “whataboutism”, understanding WHY someone from Latin America would see US actions as being the triggering force behind the crisis is entirely relevant.
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I see your logic here. It could be why he made such a statement. It's still BS though.
 
Fledermaus said:
Donbas is STILL internationally recognized as Ukraine territory. As is Crimea.
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Only because Biden and his Democrats control the Whitehouse, with the help of some RINOs.


Fledermaus said:
There was no "independent" Donbas. That is an invention of Putin.
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That is about to change. What matters most is the will of the people of Donbas.
 
sanman said:
Only because Biden and his Democrats control the Whitehouse, with the help of some RINOs.



That is about to change. What matters most is the will of the people of Donbas.
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I'm fairly sure the people of Donbass cannot constitutionally secede.
 
Tigerace117 said:
On the other hand, take it from his point of view. “Russian encroachment” and “the communist threat” was the excuse the US used for supporting all manner of vicious tyrants across the region, including the one in Argentina.

You can only cry wolf so many times before some people stop buying it, even when an actual wolf shows up.
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Crying wolf as in Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, China, Congo, Angola, Poland, Romania, Hungary, Somalia, DPRK, Yemen, etc .
 
The Pope? The guy at the head of the Molesting Catholic Church?
 
sanman said:
Only because Biden and his Democrats control the Whitehouse, with the help of some RINOs.
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Congratulations on what is perhaps the stupidest statement this week.

sanman said:
That is about to change. What matters most is the will of the people of Donbas.
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Incorrect once again.
 
Fledermaus said:
Crying wolf as in Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, China, Congo, Angola, Poland, Romania, Hungary, Somalia, DPRK, Yemen, etc .
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First off, both Romania and Hungary were Axis members who participated in the genocidal German “crusade against Bolshevism”. Boo ****ing hoo, they got precisely what they deserved.

Secondly, Vietnam was by no means guaranteed to go into the communist bloc in the first place. The United States stupidly pushed it there by supporting French colonialism and then stupidly backed corrupt and brutal tyrants in the south, preventing a proper South Vietnamese identity from developing and leading to that state’s downfall.

Thirdly, China likewise became communist as a result of the corruption and misrule of the KMT. Trying to blame that on Russia is silly, as it ignores the most relevant factors as to why China went communist.

Fourthly, both Cambodia( particularly Cambodia) and Laos likewise suffered from counter productive US efforts to force them into its camp and out of their neutrality which weakened support for the ruling parties and enabled the communists to take over. Lon Nol’s coup was the beginning of the end for non communist forces in Cambodia.

Angola was yet another example of a newly independent state alienated by the US and, being repeatedly invaded by the vicious South African regime, forced to rely on anyone who’d help them—in this case the USSR and Cuba.

What “Russian aggression” supposedly happened in the Congo? The US was responsible for helping orchestrate the overthrow and murder of the country’s promising leader and enabling a vicious and almost comically corrupt tyrant to take power. South Yemen, likewise, went communist as a result of continuing colonialism in the region.

The US was happy to back Somalia’s dictator when the USSR switched to backing Ethiopia, so that’s hardly evidence of “aggression”.

Congrats, out of that whole list the only ones in which you have even a fraction of a case for are North Korea and Poland.
 
Tigerace117 said:
First off, both Romania and Hungary were Axis members who participated in the genocidal German “crusade against Bolshevism”. Boo ****ing hoo, they got precisely what they deserved.

Secondly, Vietnam was by no means guaranteed to go into the communist bloc in the first place. The United States stupidly pushed it there by supporting French colonialism and then stupidly backed corrupt and brutal tyrants in the south, preventing a proper South Vietnamese identity from developing and leading to that state’s downfall.

Thirdly, China likewise became communist as a result of the corruption and misrule of the KMT. Trying to blame that on Russia is silly, as it ignores the most relevant factors as to why China went communist.

Fourthly, both Cambodia(and particularly Cambodia) and Laos likewise suffered from counter productive US efforts to force them into its camp and out of their neutrality which weakened support for the ruling parties and enabled the communists to take over. Lon Nol’s coup was the beginning of the end for non communist forces in Cambodia.

Angola was yet another example of a newly independent state alienated by the US and, being repeatedly invaded by the vicious South African regime, forced to rely on anyone who’d help them—in this case the USSR and Cuba.

What “Russian aggression” supposedly happened in the Congo? The US was responsible for helping orchestrate the overthrow and murder of the country’s promising leader and enabling a vicious and almost comically corrupt tyrant to take power. South Yemen, likewise, went communist as a result of continuing colonialism in the region.

The US was happy to back Somalia’s dictator when the USSR switched to backing Ethiopia, so that’s hardly evidence of “aggression”.

Congrats, out of that whole list the only ones in which you have even a fraction of a case for are North Korea and Poland.
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So, yes. Communism spread through the largest country in the world, the most populous in the world and spread to lesser nations at the barrel of a gun.
 
sanman said:
Hopefully the Ukrainians are listening to what the Pope is saying:

www.politico.eu

Pope says NATO may have caused Russia’s invasion of Ukraine

Francis says transatlantic military alliance was ‘barking’ at Russia’s door.
www.politico.eu www.politico.eu
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It's surprising that the Pope, a liberal and a Globalist backer, would say something like this...but he's not wrong.

Not only did NATO play a part in manipulating Russia into invading, but the Biden pukes and the Globalists have taken part, as well. From their point of view, this is a money laundering scheme to make up for the losses the Globalists and the corrupt oligarchs lost during the Trump administration.
 
Spunkylama said:
Guess they took a break from abusing children to weigh in on this topic..
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I was raised catholic by very strict catholic parents. I have respect for the pope. But in this case, he's dead wrong.
 
Fledermaus said:
So, yes. Communism spread through the largest country in the world, the most populous in the world and spread to lesser nations at the barrel of a gun.
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Wrong, actually. Communism, in most of those countries, spread due to former colonial powers and or hostile states attacking them, either causing them to seek protection from the Soviets, who were substantially more friendly to anti colonial movements than the US was, or causing their previous government to be discredited in the eyes of the common people.

Cambodia and Vietnam being perfect examples of that.
 
Mycroft said:
It's surprising that the Pope, a liberal and a Globalist backer, would say something like this...but he's not wrong.

Not only did NATO play a part in manipulating Russia into invading, but the Biden pukes and the Globalists have taken part, as well. From their point of view, this is a money laundering scheme to make up for the losses the Globalists and the corrupt oligarchs lost during the Trump administration.
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Please share what NATO did to "manipulate" Putin.
 
Mycroft said:
It's surprising that the Pope, a liberal and a Globalist backer, would say something like this...but he's not wrong.

Not only did NATO play a part in manipulating Russia into invading, but the Biden pukes and the Globalists have taken part, as well. From their point of view, this is a money laundering scheme to make up for the losses the Globalists and the corrupt oligarchs lost during the Trump administration.
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Holy shit. Where do get this conspiracy nonsense? straight out of Putin's playbook.
 
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