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Pope Says NATO May Have Caused Russia’s Invasion of Ukraine

Mycroft said:
It's surprising that the Pope, a liberal and a Globalist backer, would say something like this...but he's not wrong.

Not only did NATO play a part in manipulating Russia into invading, but the Biden pukes and the Globalists have taken part, as well. From their point of view, this is a money laundering scheme to make up for the losses the Globalists and the corrupt oligarchs lost during the Trump administration.
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Putin says he is fighting the Nazi's not NATO. Is he lying? And you think the money the Russian oligarchs gave to Trump and Trump associates was "lost"?

According to an indictment unsealed by U.S. prosecutors, an unidentified Russian businessman arranged for two $500,000 wires to be sent from foreign bank accounts to a U.S. account controlled by Fruman in September and October 2018. The money was used, in part, by Fruman, Parnas and two other men charged in the indictment to gain influence with U.S. politicians and candidates, the indictment said.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ult-on-indicted-associates-firm-idUSKBN1WU07Z
 
Fledermaus said:
Please share what NATO did to "manipulate" Putin.
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Their part was to not come right out and state that Ukraine would not be admitted to NATO...which has been their position for decades.
 
Tigerace117 said:
Wrong, actually. Communism, in most of those countries, spread due to former colonial powers and or hostile states attacking them, either causing them to seek protection from the Soviets, who were substantially more friendly to anti colonial movements than the US was, or causing their previous government to be discredited in the eyes of the common people.

Cambodia and Vietnam being perfect examples of that.
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Seek "protection" from the Soviets.

Like North Korea?

Cambodia? Invaded by the peace loving NVA and Viet Cong at the request of Khmer Rouge.

How about Laos? They were independent since 1954 and were invaded by the peace loving NVA and Viet Cong.

How about Somalia which was fully independent and went Communist after a military coup?

Angola by help from Cuba.

Etc.
 
Mycroft said:
No. But then, what Putin says doesn't matter.
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What you say doesn't matter and the money the Russian oligarchs gave to Trump and Trump associates was not "lost" it was used to support GOP candidates and Rudy's "drug deal" in Ukraine.

According to an indictment unsealed by U.S. prosecutors, an unidentified Russian businessman arranged for two $500,000 wires to be sent from foreign bank accounts to a U.S. account controlled by Fruman in September and October 2018. The money was used, in part, by Fruman, Parnas and two other men charged in the indictment to gain influence with U.S. politicians and candidates, the indictment said.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ult-on-indicted-associates-firm-idUSKBN1WU07Z
 
Tigerace117 said:
Wrong, actually. Communism, in most of those countries, spread due to former colonial powers and or hostile states attacking them, either causing them to seek protection from the Soviets, who were substantially more friendly to anti colonial movements than the US was, or causing their previous government to be discredited in the eyes of the common people.

Cambodia and Vietnam being perfect examples of that.
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So you are saying the Russian proxy wars against the U.S were OK and that means we can do the same in Ukraine. Good to know.
 
iguanaman said:
What you say doesn't matter and the money the Russian oligarchs gave to Trump and Trump associates was not "lost" it was used to support GOP candidates and Rudy's "drug deal" in Ukraine.

According to an indictment unsealed by U.S. prosecutors, an unidentified Russian businessman arranged for two $500,000 wires to be sent from foreign bank accounts to a U.S. account controlled by Fruman in September and October 2018. The money was used, in part, by Fruman, Parnas and two other men charged in the indictment to gain influence with U.S. politicians and candidates, the indictment said.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ult-on-indicted-associates-firm-idUSKBN1WU07Z
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I didn't say anything about "Russian oligarchs". What? You think Russia is the only country with oligarchs?

On the other hand, some Ukrainian oligarchs have connections to Russian oligarchs, so there's that.

But this money laundering has been going on since way before Trump came along.
 
Tigerace117 said:
The whole thing is substantially more complex than just going “oh, the Pope is dumb, or believes Putin”.
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The Pope is no expert on international affairs either. Even Putin has dropped that lame argument.
 
Mycroft said:
I didn't say anything about "Russian oligarchs". What? You think Russia is the only country with oligarchs?

On the other hand, some Ukrainian oligarchs have connections to Russian oligarchs, so there's that.

But this money laundering has been going on since way before Trump came along.
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You said oligarchs lost money under Trump and I was trying to understand what that meant. They gave Trump and associates of Trump millions and I thought you were saying that was lost money.
 
iguanaman said:
You said oligarchs lost money under Trump and I was trying to understand what that meant. They gave Trump and associates of Trump millions and I thought you were saying that was lost money.
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You don't have to explain your misunderstanding to me.
 
Mycroft said:
You don't have to explain your misunderstanding to me.
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So you don't think the $500,000 the Russian oligarch gave to Rudy was lost money then? It failed to get Trump reelected so it does seem like it was lost money to me. You know what they say....a fool and his money..
 
iguanaman said:
So you don't think the $500,000 the Russian oligarch gave to Rudy was lost money then? It failed to get Trump reelected so it does seem like it was lost to me.
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Your question is irrelevant to my post...and to this thread...and it is dismissed.
 
Fledermaus said:
Seek "protection" from the Soviets.

Like North Korea?

Cambodia? Invaded by the peace loving NVA and Viet Cong at the request of Khmer Rouge.

How about Laos? They were independent since 1954 and were invaded by the peace loving NVA and Viet Cong.

How about Somalia which was fully independent and went Communist after a military coup?

Angola by help from Cuba.

Etc.
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Cambodia tried to stay neutral. Then a US backed coup overthrew the monarchy. The Khmer Rouge’s size ballooned from six thousand fighters to FIFTY thousand men after the deposed Prince Sihanouk aligned himself with them. It was a classic case of the US blundering in and causing a fiasco.

Likewise, the Laotian anti communist forces were deeply divided and corrupt, which lost them the people’s support.

The US BACKED the same dictator who had taken over in said military coup following Somalia’s defeat in the Ogaden War.

Yes, Angola went looking for protection because it was being repeatedly invaded by the vicious South African regime for the “crime” of helping anti apartheid fighters.
 
iguanaman said:
So you are saying the Russian proxy wars against the U.S were OK and that means we can do the same in Ukraine. Good to know.
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No, I’m saying that arguing the rise of communism in most of those countries was due to “Russian aggression” is utterly inaccurate. Duh.
 
Tigerace117 said:
Cambodia tried to stay neutral. Then a US backed coup overthrew the monarchy. The Khmer Rouge’s size ballooned from six thousand fighters to FIFTY thousand men after the deposed Prince Sihanouk aligned himself with them. It was a classic case of the US blundering in and causing a fiasco.

Likewise, the Laotian anti communist forces were deeply divided and corrupt, which lost them the people’s support.

The US BACKED the same dictator who had taken over in said military coup following Somalia’s defeat in the Ogaden War.

Yes, Angola went looking for protection because it was being repeatedly invaded by the vicious South African regime for the “crime” of helping anti apartheid fighters.
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Cambodia. The US supported the coup after said Coup overthrew the Monarchy. And it still was invaded by the peace loving NVA and Viet Cong at the request of Khmer Rouge.

And Laos still was invaded by the peace loving NVA and Viet Cong.

Somalia CHOSE to ally with the United States due to dissatisfaction with Soviet support. At no time was his alliance with USSR because of Western meddling.
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In other words coups are cool as long as the Communists do it.

Got it.
 
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Fledermaus said:
In other words coups are cool as long as the Communists do it.

Got it.
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No, in other words supporting corrupt tyrants in the name of “anti communism” tends to bite the US in the ass. Duh.
 
iguanaman said:
The Pope is no expert on international affairs either. Even Putin has dropped that lame argument.
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The Pope has, as I said before, been involved in organizing extensive diplomatic negotiations pretty much since he assumed the role.
 
Tigerace117 said:
The Pope has, as I said before, been involved in organizing extensive diplomatic negotiations pretty much since he assumed the role.
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And how does that make him and expert on anything? What has he accomplished in those "extensive diplomatic negotiations "?
 
iguanaman said:
And how does that make him and expert on anything?
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One doesn’t need to be an “expert” to observe how nations react. One may not agree with the Pope’s op8nioj, but declaring that he’s “dumb” or “fell for Putin’s propaganda” is silly.

But I’m not surprised someone who is under the delusion that Russia is “Nazi Germany but more brutal” can’t grasp that.
 
Tigerace117 said:
One doesn’t need to be an “expert” to observe how nations react. One may not agree with the Pope’s op8nioj, but declaring that he’s “dumb” or “fell for Putin’s propaganda” is silly.

But I’m not surprised someone who is under the delusion that Russia is “Nazi Germany but more brutal” can’t grasp that.
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You obviously have not been following the coverage of the Ukraine invasion if you don't think the Russian are even more brutal than the Nazi's. The mass graves keep getting more numerous. Stalin killed more soviet citizens than the Nazi's so it is not surprising. Putin idolizes Stalin.

Stalin Killed More Ukrainians Than Hitler Killed Jews, Says U.S. Congressman

https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/sta...han-hitler-killed-jews-says-u-s-rep-1.6293248
 
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