Our Nation's Future -- God Help Us

[Thrilla]

my neighbor call them "wetbacks".




... my neighbor was a wetback until 15 years ago when he got citizenship.

 

[ChezC3]

It has been this way in Australia for some time now. The Press has been banned from using the correct term, illegal immigrants, and must use the terms asylum seeker or refugee. Most of the illegal immigrants are not refugees, but country shoppers. They flee their country, most often for economic reasons, and do not stop at the first country they escape to, but head on to Australia, paying thousands of dollars to people smugglers for a spot on a boat. When they land in Australia, the government not only gives them everything they need, the illegal immigrants also have years of appeals, funded by groups who support them and the government, to help them obtain legal status. Political correctness has replaced correct terminology and common sense.

Well, I'd give your illegals a little more credit based on effort, but putting them all on a barge tugging them around the world, dropping them off at their home country is a solution that should be entertained.

 

[vesper]

Nonsense, we are going to borrow our way to prosperity. We have all the wealth that we need, it just needs to be redistributed "fairly". All will get free education, including free college, and then be qualified to simply watch others (the undocumented?) do the hard menial labor needed to support their lofty dreams. Anyone unable to find meaningful and satisfactory work (of their liking) will be kept "in waiting" (as long as their dream job is not available) at a middle class lifestyle supported by generous social "safety net" programs.

You didn't mention Corporate Welfare. After all, who is really behind this immigration reform of "undocumented immigrants"? Is it not CEOs bankrolling the immigration push who are concerned with only reducing the cost of labor? It’s not about “reform”—it’s about profit.

 

[P. Kersey]

Initially and when in rural areas but you often find a different attitude developing once they are exposed to U.S. city life (liberalism?) for a while. They also have some of the better organized criminal/prison gangs. They are not all just peaceful, hard working, family folks, loving tacos, cerveza and tejano music.

The illegals are unpatriotic, disloyal, opportunistic cowards.

If they were so interested in "working" for a better life they should stay their asses in mexico and build their country into something to be proud of instead of cut and run when things get tough. Be a patriot and make mexico something besides a 3rd world wreck.
They don't want to assimilate.They don't even try. Press 1 for english, my ass.
They stay in enclaves, have no loyalty to this country, nothing in common with this nation's heritage, culture or values and they don't care. They openly demonstrate against america..... "La Raza" and "Aztlan".
If they aren't even tough enough to fight for their own country why would we want them here?
Go through the proper channels and become an american. We don't need illegal people in this country.
Of course there's all this free stuff here..and who doesn't want free stuff. They are a drag on the system and money/services that should go to americans is rerouted to them.


yeah, yeah..I know, I'm a "racistxenophobebigotkkkrednecknazi" :roll: ....whatever.....

 

[P. Kersey]

You didn't mention Corporate Welfare. After all, who is really behind this immigration reform of "undocumented immigrants"? Is it not CEOs bankrolling the immigration push who are concerned with only reducing the cost of labor? It’s not about “reform”—it’s about profit.

Fine..let's do away with subsidies for business (leftist buzzword "corporate welfare") and close and enforce the border. That's a fair trade.

 

[vesper]

Fine..let's do away with subsidies for business (leftist buzzword "corporate welfare") and close and enforce the border. That's a fair trade.

Actually corporate welfare isn't a leftist buzzword, you might find this response from Sen Jeff Sessions (R) on Aug 1 over the proposed Immigration Bill interesting.
Immigration Policy As Corporate Welfare: Sessions Hits White House For Immigration Report That Shills For CEOs - Press Releases - Media - U.S. Senate Budget Committee

 

[P. Kersey]

Actually corporate welfare isn't a leftist buzzword, you might find this response from Sen Jeff Sessions (R) on Aug 1 over the proposed Immigration Bill interesting.
Immigration Policy As Corporate Welfare: Sessions Hits White House For Immigration Report That Shills For CEOs - Press Releases - Media - U.S. Senate Budget Committee

Whatever it's called (I think) I'm on your side. Abolish it.
Govenment subsidies should be carefully examined and better controlled. How?..I dunno, but it isn't good for the average citizen.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Fine..let's do away with subsidies for business (leftist buzzword "corporate welfare") and close and enforce the border. That's a fair trade.

Not only is it a fair trade, but it addresses two problems that need to be solved.

 

[head of joaquin]

The fixation with decline and the delusion that the US is deteriorating, despite all factual evidence to the contrary, is one of the defining traits of the conservative personality.

 

[ttwtt78640]

The illegals are unpatriotic, disloyal, opportunistic cowards.

If they were so interested in "working" for a better life they should stay their asses in mexico and build their country into something to be proud of instead of cut and run when things get tough. Be a patriot and make mexico something besides a 3rd world wreck.
They don't want to assimilate.They don't even try. Press 1 for english, my ass.
They stay in enclaves, have no loyalty to this country, nothing in common with this nation's heritage, culture or values and they don't care. They openly demonstrate against america..... "La Raza" and "Aztlan".
If they aren't even tough enough to fight for their own country why would we want them here?
Go through the proper channels and become an american. We don't need illegal people in this country.
Of course there's all this free stuff here..and who doesn't want free stuff. They are a drag on the system and money/services that should go to americans is rerouted to them.


yeah, yeah..I know, I'm a "racistxenophobebigotkkkrednecknazi" :roll: ....whatever.....

I confess to not looking up your location coordinates, but rest assured that I encounter many Mexicans on a daily basis here in rural south-central Texas. Some were born in Mexico and are here illegally yet most have been here in Texas for generations, many with U.S. roots deeper than many U.S. citizens now in Texas, some "Mexicans" have had family here since even before Texas was a state. With the few exceptions, which I have noted in the post to which you replied, they are every bit as patriotic and loyal to Texas, and the USA in general, as anyone that I have ever met.

Before you make such general assumptions about even the recent illegal immigrants, consider what you would do for yourself and your family if a place existed only a few (or even a few hundred) miles away that offered opportunities far beyond those available to you in the land of your birth. Would you try to change the complete chaos, corruption and fight the drug cartels in your home or simply vote with your feet to persue greener pastures?

Many in the U.S. do not stay in the city or even he state of their birth but move to places that offer them, or at least their children, greater opportunity for personal and economic growth. I admire and respect those that break free of the ghettos, or other impoverished areas, to try to prove their worth elsewhere and accept the risks of encountering unfamiliar people/cultures in the process.

If we, as a nation, were serious about stopping this illegal immigration then we would not only better secure the borders, but to assure that U.S. employers were unable to exploit the labor of these determined illegal workers and ask our own poor to get with it and work. I have far more respect for a Mexican that is willing to work, even at very low wages, to support themselves and their dependents than those U.S. citizens that choose to remain jobless and stay in place within our cities demanding public funds be given to them and not work to support themselves or their children.

 

[P. Kersey]

I confess to not looking up your location coordinates, but rest assured that I encounter many Mexicans on a daily basis here in rural south-central Texas. Some were born in Mexico and are here illegally yet most have been here in Texas for generations, many with U.S. roots deeper than many U.S. citizens now in Texas, some "Mexicans" have had family here since even before Texas was a state. With the few exceptions, which I have noted in the post to which you replied, they are every bit as patriotic and loyal to Texas, and the USA in general, as anyone that I have ever met.

Before you make such general assumptions about even the recent illegal immigrants, consider what you would do for yourself and your family if a place existed only a few (or even a few hundred) miles away that offered opportunities far beyond those available to you in the land of your birth. Would you try to change the complete chaos, corruption and fight the drug cartels in your home or simply vote with your feet to persue greener pastures?

Many in the U.S. do not stay in the city or even he state of their birth but move to places that offer them, or at least their children, greater opportunity for personal and economic growth. I admire and respect those that break free of the ghettos, or other impoverished areas, to try to prove their worth elsewhere and accept the risks of encountering unfamiliar people/cultures in the process.

If we, as a nation, were serious about stopping this illegal immigration then we would not only better secure the borders, but to assure that U.S. employers were unable to exploit the labor of these determined illegal workers and ask our own poor to get with it and work. I have far more respect for a Mexican that is willing to work, even at very low wages, to support themselves and their dependents than those U.S. citizens that choose to remain jobless and stay in place within our cities demanding public funds be given to them and not work to support themselves or their children.

You're ok with open borders, then?

 

[ttwtt78640]

You're ok with open borders, then?

Not at all. I am simply pointing out reality. US immigration law enforcement amounts to using only the number of police officers in Boston and Baltimore (about 5K) assigned to cover the entire USA. We pretend to enforce the law so they pretend to obey it.

 

[P. Kersey]

Not at all. I am simply pointing out reality. US immigration law enforcement amounts to using only the number of police officers in Boston and Baltimore (about 5K) assigned to cover the entire USA. We pretend to enforce the law so they pretend to obey it.

Ok.
I maintain that a patriot stays and works to make his nation better and doesn't run away and sneak into another country illegally because there's more free stuff. That right there tells a lot about a person's character.

There are procedures that allow people who want to legally immigrate. People who follow the procedures are more loyal and reliable as citizens.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Ok.
I maintain that a patriot stays and works to make his nation better and doesn't run away and sneak into another country illegally because there's more free stuff. That right there tells a lot about a person's character.

There are procedures that allow people who want to legally immigrate. People who follow the procedures are more loyal and reliable as citizens.

That ignores two things, 1) this "free stuff" is not what illegal aliens seek and 2) we see no problem giving "free stuff" to totally unproductive folks in our nation leaving many job openings (that pay less than what "free stuff" does). Care to show me any links asserting that most illegal aliens do not work to totally support themselves and their families? It is those that hire illegal labor that you should be investigating - note that all immigration "reform" plans somehow still assume that the U.S. cannot find/produce its own supply of low skilled laborers and thus still needs "guest workers".

 

[P. Kersey]

That ignores two things, 1) this "free stuff" is not what illegal aliens seek and 2) we see no problem giving "free stuff" to totally unproductive folks in our nation leaving many job openings (that pay less than what "free stuff" does). Care to show me any links asserting that most illegal aliens do not work to totally support themselves and their families? It is those that hire illegal labor that you should be investigating - note that all immigration "reform" plans somehow still assume that the U.S. cannot find/produce its own supply of low skilled laborers and thus still needs "guest workers".

I disagree that illegals are so benevolent and benign.
I also never said they don't work to support their families, etc...

I know very well that you understand the meaning of the word "illegal".

Robbing a bank is illegal...even if you do it to "support your family".

Patriots to their country don't abandon it and illegally sneak into another because there is better "opportunity".
Patriots work to improve their motherland and make it better for themselves and their offspring.
They are cowards and traitors to their own country and we don't need any more cowards and traitors here.
We have enough native born cowards and traitors already.

 

[ttwtt78640]

I disagree that illegals are so benevolent and benign.
I also never said they don't work to support their families, etc...

I know very well that you understand the meaning of the word "illegal".

Robbing a bank is illegal...even if you do it to "support your family".

Patriots to their country don't abandon it and illegally sneak into another because there is better "opportunity".
Patriots work to improve their motherland and make it better for themselves and their offspring.
They are cowards and traitors to their own country and we don't need any more cowards and traitors here.
We have enough native born cowards and traitors already.

Are you seriously comparing working hard for an employer willing to pay you to robbing a bank? How do you think that anyone is going to stop a corrupt gov't in Mexico from doing exactly what they want to? How are you not also a coward and a traitor for allowing your corrupt gov't to do as it pleases - do you approve of paying non-disabled folks tax money not to work to support themselves?

Instead of expecting them to leave the ghettos of our cities to work in the fields, factories or kitchens of the nation we allow (demand?) our gov't to pay folks to stay put (vote for liberals?) and call them "deserving of our help", while "conseravtives" instead rant that those non-citizens willing to work hard for low pay are "criminals". Imagine how many ICE agents could be employed with the money now spent simply to support those not willing to support themselves - that is what you should try to fix.

 

[P. Kersey]

Are you seriously comparing working hard for an employer willing to pay you to robbing a bank?

hahahaahah..not at all...nice try to twist it, though.
No. I was highlighting the word "illegal". You've been studying evasive liberal tactics.

How do you think that anyone is going to stop a corrupt gov't in Mexico from doing exactly what they want to?

Not my problem. One method is to do what the u.s. did in 1776. Another method is to get inside the system and fix it. Running away won't fix mexico.
Hell, take a page from Rules for Radicals.

"But the answer I gave the young radicals seemed to me the only realistic one: “Do one of three things. One, go find a wailing wall and feel sorry for yourselves. Two, go psycho and start bombing — but this only swings people to the right. Three, learn a lesson. Go home, organize, build power and at the next convention, you be the delegates.” — xxiii

How are you not also a coward and a traitor for allowing your corrupt gov't to do as it pleases - do you approve of paying non-disabled folks tax money not to work to support themselves?

Me personally? No. I don't approve of those things at all.Patriots don't. Those are more reasons to oppose the current g.

In the history of humans, whenever a gov.t becomes too oppressive and corrupt the people eventually overthrow it.

Sometimes it might take more than one try. It worked for us in 1776. It didn't work the first time in 1861 but at least my ancestors tried. It'll happen again, though. Every nation in the history of the world was born in blood and they all die in blood.
Because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean corruption and oppression is condoned.

Instead of expecting them to leave the ghettos of our cities to work in the fields, factories or kitchens of the nation we allow (demand?) our gov't to pay folks to stay put (vote for liberals?) and call them "deserving of our help", while "conseravtives" instead rant that those non-citizens willing to work hard for low pay are "criminals". Imagine how many ICE agents could be employed with the money now spent simply to support those not willing to support themselves - that is what you should try to fix.

Close and enforce the border. 99.9% of the problems you mentioned, solved.
"illegal" means against the law...or else it doesn't mean anything.

 

[Dittohead not!]

You're ok with open borders, then?

I'm not sure how you could possibly have gotten that from the post you quoted.
One point was that "Mexican" does not necessarily mean "illegal" or even "immigrant". We have Hispanics here that date their residency to the Californio days, back to when California was a part of the Spanish empire.

Calling people "cowards" for having run the gamut of shady coyotes, blazing deserts, and law enforcement to come here is not understanding just what it takes to come to the US.

and, if we wanted to end illegal immigration, we could do it. All it would take would be (1) serious fined for hiring illegals, (2) no government services for illegals, and (3) a reasonable and quick legal immigration policy that would vet the immigrants and screen out the bad guys and then let the rest come and quit living in the shadows.

But no, we can't do that. Big donors like the idea of a workforce that is afraid to make waves and can be paid low wages.

 

[P. Kersey]

I'm not sure how you could possibly have gotten that from the post you quoted.
One point was that "Mexican" does not necessarily mean "illegal" or even "immigrant". We have Hispanics here that date their residency to the Californio days, back to when California was a part of the Spanish empire.

Calling people "cowards" for having run the gamut of shady coyotes, blazing deserts, and law enforcement to come here is not understanding just what it takes to come to the US.

and, if we wanted to end illegal immigration, we could do it. All it would take would be (1) serious fined for hiring illegals, (2) no government services for illegals, and (3) a reasonable and quick legal immigration policy that would vet the immigrants and screen out the bad guys and then let the rest come and quit living in the shadows.

But no, we can't do that. Big donors like the idea of a workforce that is afraid to make waves and can be paid low wages.

I never equated "mexican" with "illegal".
purposely confusing illegal aliens with legal residents doesn't strengthen your argument.
yes..they're so brave for risking coyotes and deserts and etc.. :roll: ..the other option is to obey the law and go through the proper channels . Why is that such a foul idea?

Closed, enforced border = fewer low pay workers being exploited by companies...

 

[Dittohead not!]

I never equated "mexican" with "illegal".
purposely confusing illegal aliens with legal residents doesn't strengthen your argument.
yes..they're so brave for risking coyotes and deserts and etc.. :roll: ..the other option is to obey the law and go through the proper channels . Why is that such a foul idea?

Closed, enforced border = fewer low pay workers being exploited by companies...

and my point was that the post you quoted did not support open borders.
If the "proper channels" worked, and if the laws against hiring illegals were actually enforced, then border security would be a lot easier, and there would be fewer low wage workers hiding in the shadow.

But, that would require real immigration reform, as well as effective enforcement, neither of which is supported by either of the two major parties.

 

[Boo Radley]

and my point was that the post you quoted did not support open borders.
If the "proper channels" worked, and if the laws against hiring illegals were actually enforced, then border security would be a lot easier, and there would be fewer low wage workers hiding in the shadow.

But, that would require real immigration reform, as well as effective enforcement, neither of which is supported by either of the two major parties.

I question whether there is the will from either party to have such reform. I think it's by design that we still have this problem after decades of debating it, and predict we will have decades from now.

 

[Dittohead not!]

I question whether there is the will from either party to have such reform. I think it's by design that we still have this problem after decades of debating it, and predict we will have decades from now.

There obviously isn't any such will, or we'd have had reform long ago. I think that the wealthy donors to political campaigns like the current situation in which there is a pool of low wage labor that doesn't dare make waves.

But, that could just be cynicism. Maybe the two major parties sincerely believe that the current system of looking the other way and ignoring the problem is the correct course of action.

 

[longview]

From my perspective, we need the immigration, as we are not reproducing ourselves
sufficiently to maintain the population.
It is the where that immigration comes from that will determine what the USA looks like
in 100 years.
I think we could do a lot worse than the strong family orientated Hispanic cultures.

 

[Dittohead not!]

From my perspective, we need the immigration, as we are not reproducing ourselves
sufficiently to maintain the population.
It is the where that immigration comes from that will determine what the USA looks like
in 100 years.
I think we could do a lot worse than the strong family orientated Hispanic cultures.

I agree, and moreover, we'd all be better off if those strong families were allowed to immigrate legally and live here openly. We'd also be better off if we would limit immigration to the numbers we're actually able to absorb, and if we were to do background checks and screen out the gang bangers and druggies. We already have our quota of those.

In other words, let's control the borders and not simply turn our heads and let the coyotes bring in whoever has the price of passage.

 

[Ontologuy]

The right and proper appropriate government term for anyone being in America without federal authorization is illegal alien.

The PC crowd (read: liberals/progressives) feigns "disgust" at a term ..

.. But in reality that's a smokescreen for their real motive for wanting a term changed: 1) to cover up the facts that work against them, and 2) spin the matter into something it's not for the sake of making that matter palatable.

So in this example, the right and proper term "illegal alien" describes someone who has broken U.S. laws against trespassing into America, identity forging, and jobs-classrooms-other resource stealing.

But the PC crowd wants these 20 million people to receive amnesty for their egregious crimes against American citizens and immigrants so that these "grateful" people will then vote for their party and its candidates: the Democrats.

It's really always about a political power pander with the PC crowd.

So they changed the term first to "illegal immigrant", a meaningless oxymoron, as the only way to become an immigrant in America is by completing U.S. government procedure to become an immigrant in America, as one is simply not an immigrant in America until such is completed. If someone is "illegal" in America, they are only an illegal "alien".

But the PC crowd hoped the ludicrous term change would make the crimes of these illegal aliens more palatable, as changing the word "alien" to "immigrant" might garner sympathy for them.

Nevertheless, intelligent people saw through that, and because there are too many intelligent people to make that cover work, they again decided to go a bit ridiculously further and change "illegal immigrant" to "undocumented immigrant".

"Undocumented immigrant" is, again, another meaningless oxymoron, as the only way to become an immigrant in America is to be documented. Yet the PC crowd thinks that if one buys this ludicrous oxymoron they will think that these people are immigrants when they really are still just trespassing, identity forging, jobs-classrooms-other resource stealing criminals.

It does not matter what thoughts are in a person's head, what words they use, even what their vote-pandering intention is.

What matters is the actual behavior itself, as that's what accurately describes the person with respect to topical relevance.

The 20 million people referenced by the PC crowd as "undocumented immigrants" are in behavior-actuality trespassers, forgers, and thieves, and since they are not citizens or immigrants or other authorized individuals, they are simply illegal aliens.

That's accurately-termed reality based on behavior, the only criteria that matters.

But, since the accurate terms harm the PC crowd's agenda, they have to change the terms in the hope of using the term to dumb the populace down in order to accomplish their power-play goal.

That's PC in a nutshell.

It really is that simple and easy to understand.