• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

One dead, two in custody after gunfire at downtown Denver rallies

This is the photo I'm talking about. Look at Dolloff's finger. It's conceivable he was telling Keltner to back up, since he is pointing. I'd like to see the video (unless this was from the photographers still shots)

point.jpg
 
SkyFox76 said:
This is the photo I'm talking about. Look at Dolloff's finger. It's conceivable he was telling Keltner to back up, since he is pointing. I'd like to see the video (unless this was from the photographers still shots)

View attachment 67299015
Click to expand...
This is a series of still shots. I'm going to analyze the rest of them together later and see if we notice anything in the sequence of events.
 
Chomsky said:
There's something interesting with that pic, if you can expand it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't that ejected 'casing' look like an entire round? That's what it looks like, to me. And that makes sense, because I see no injury to the victim. It was supposed to be a headshot, right? Well, if the casing was ejected that slug should have travelled the short distance to the victim. But it didn't.

I'm wondering if the shooter just cycled the gun, prior to shooting, when that pic occurred?
Click to expand...

You've been watching too many Hollywood movies Chom.

First off, the shooter's left hand would still be up over the slide had he just cleared a jam or misfeed. He could not have moved his left hand back down that quickly to firing position.

Secondly. We can tell the weapon was just fired as the slide is all the way back (blowback) --and from the position of the barrel you can see the 'muzzle rise' as a result of the recoil.

The way the shell casing in the air appears is not conclusive, but a non expended round would not cause what we are seeing as noted in my two points above. In another photo you can see the single empty shell casing on the ground.

Can't tell from the photo where the round impacted. At first I thought the victims right sunglasses lens looked shattereed, but in an earlier photo it looked the same--- so probably just a reflection from that angle. But at whatever the camera shutter speed was set to, is the moment of impact judging from the muzzle rise, the ejected shell's position, and the slide blowback. Not seeing a wound opening yet is again, your expectation from watching too many movies. But a millisecond after this photo frame is likely into another film frame would have probably shown the blood that came out of the man's head (which we see on the ground in a subsequent photo with the victim on the ground). Generally someone who is shot from the front when they are flatfooted and stationary will fall forward after being shot. Bullet goes through the brain, knees buckle, and they fall forward---- usually. In this case the victim was already moving backward when the gun came out and was pointed at him. This one then ends on his back with arms out above him and to the side like he was planning to make snow angels. Had the victim been not out looking for confrontations he might still be alive today.
 
Chomsky said:
The bolded is not a comparative equivalency. And we have states that allow deadly force to be applied to protect one's property, much less one's person.

I'm not saying the guy did right. But I am arguing that he may have a self-defense argument, if the other guy was the aggressor, depending on the state's laws and the mood of the judge/jury that day.

Don't shoot the messenger. Hmm ... maybe that wasn't the best metaphor, but you get the idea I'm trying to convey.
Click to expand...
He can argue self defense. Heck, he SHOULD argue self defense. It's just that he isn't going to win the argument.

Even if he can convince a jury that the initial smack in the face was assault there's that next picture where he backed away and his victim had also backed off. The difference is that in that picture the shooter was reaching for his gun. That makes the mace in the face self defense and the pistol round to the face murder. It isn't even manslaughter. It's full blown murder.
 
Chomsky said:
What is it about the sequence of events I bolded, that you believe would negate self defense?
Click to expand...
not knowing who initiated the fracas
if it was the nazi, then the shooter will walk
if it was the shooter, then he needs a great attorney
 
apdst said:
The shooter's life was never in danger.
Click to expand...
not sure that is true
the victim was armed with brass knuckles that can be seen. would not be surprised if one or more other weapons were found on his person
which weapon/weapons could have been used to assault the shooter immediately subsequent to his being incapacitated by the bear spray
there was legitimate conclusion for the shooter to be concerned about the safety of his person subsequent to the act of being sprayed
the outstanding question remains, which of the two initiated the fracas
 
ASHES said:
Now that's not entirely true. Mace was out before the shot was fired, or this picture of the gun mid cycle with the mace already sprayed a distance wouldn't exist.

View attachment 67299002


It does seem like the use of deadly force against the mace was unreasonable, given that the shooter appeared to be the one escalating confrontation for awhile until the final interaction.
Click to expand...
sound point. but was the nazi shooting his mace in self defense against the shooter's drawn pistol?
 
justabubba said:
not sure that is true
the victim was armed with brass knuckles that can be seen. would not be surprised if one or more other weapons were found on his person
which weapon/weapons could have been used to assault the shooter immediately subsequent to his being incapacitated by the bear spray
there was legitimate conclusion for the shooter to be concerned about the safety of his person subsequent to the act of being sprayed
the outstanding question remains, which of the two initiated the fracas
Click to expand...

I think those are just rings he's wearing, but regardless they'd have some impact when slapping someone.

Also, I was just reading elsewhere and a guy claims by changing the resolution of that photo he could see the victim had a gun under his vest on the left side. And that could be the second gun police say they collected at the scene.
 
Cameron said:
How do you know it's mace when it's being pointed in your face? Could be acid. Could be any number of things....
Click to expand...
Yeah, acid being sprayed from a commercial canister of OC is a totally likely scenario and not at all made-up garbage.
 
Lutherf said:
He can argue self defense. Heck, he SHOULD argue self defense. It's just that he isn't going to win the argument.

Even if he can convince a jury that the initial smack in the face was assault there's that next picture where he backed away and his victim had also backed off. The difference is that in that picture the shooter was reaching for his gun. That makes the mace in the face self defense and the pistol round to the face murder. It isn't even manslaughter. It's full blown murder.
Click to expand...
Like that guy in Florida who was arguing with the lady about parking in a handicap spot. Tossed hard by the boyfriend who went to continue the assualt but then backed up at the sight of a gun; once one person disengages and retreats self defense is kinda off the table.
 
This photo shows the shooter protecting the "enemy of the people" from one of trumps (former) goons.

www.gettyimages.ca

Two men clash after dueling rallies in Downtown Denver on October 10,...

Two men clash after dueling rallies in Downtown Denver on October 10, 2020 in Denver, Colorado. The confrontation led to the man on the right fatally shooting the man on the left of the photo. The...
www.gettyimages.ca

Near the end of the video below, you can see the goon fix his mask (after losing to the black man) and set his sights on his next target, the fake news media.



Wonder what ever gave him the idea to attack the press.

 
Last edited:
Integrityrespec said:
This video is not telling much about the facts of what happened in the shooting. This loud mouth is clearly an aggressor but he isn't the shooter. So there is nothing in the video to help except we know the situation is heated.
Click to expand...

I agree. Even the photos I have seen since that had the shooter and the victim really doesn't tell me much. I really don't know who the aggressor was in the case.
 
justabubba said:
not sure that is true
the victim was armed with brass knuckles that can be seen. would not be surprised if one or more other weapons were found on his person
which weapon/weapons could have been used to assault the shooter immediately subsequent to his being incapacitated by the bear spray
there was legitimate conclusion for the shooter to be concerned about the safety of his person subsequent to the act of being sprayed
the outstanding question remains, which of the two initiated the fracas
Click to expand...

The shooter wasn't being attacked with any kind of deadly weapon. Hence, his life wasn't in danger. Hell, his physical safety wasn't in danger
 
Metric Mouse said:
Like that guy in Florida who was arguing with the lady about parking in a handicap spot. Tossed hard by the boyfriend who went to continue the assualt but then backed up at the sight of a gun; once one person disengages and retreats self defense is kinda off the table.
Click to expand...
Pretty much. That guy, if I remember correctly, got convicted of murder and the same will likely happen to this guy.
 
Chomsky said:
Yes, I believe it would lead a reasonable person to fear bodily harm. Why wouldn't it?
Click to expand...

An open handed slap doesn't constitute deadly force.
 
apdst said:
An open handed slap doesn't constitute deadly force.
Click to expand...
And yet any physical altercation justifies a cop shooting someone.
 
Deuce said:
And yet any physical altercation justifies a cop shooting someone.
Click to expand...

That's different. Cops have to worry about who the attacker could harm. It's literally, their job.

In this case, Dolloff (the shooter) could have just walked away. Dolloff wasn't making an arrest. He had no authority to order Keltner to stand down. His life was never in danger. Keltner made no attempt to subdue Dolloff and take his gun from him. Keltner didn't have any deadly weapons deployed, or employed.

What we have, is a Left wing activist, linked to ANTIFA (Dolloff), who came to the protest ready to "smoke a fascist". He probably stood in front, nekkid of a mirror that morning, saying over and over: You're a patriot! You're a warrior! You are destined to protect the country from the fascist Trumpers..." and went out to "git some".
 
apdst said:
Keltner didn't have a gun in his hand.
Click to expand...
I don't think it's been reported that he had a gun at all. The reports I read said 2 guns were recovered from the scene but I haven't seen anything about who the other one was recovered from.
 
Lutherf said:
I don't think it's been reported that he had a gun at all. The reports I read said 2 guns were recovered from the scene but I haven't seen anything about who the other one was recovered from.
Click to expand...

Another poster claimed Keltner was carrying a side piece. I was assuming that's true and if it is and it was still holstered, it wasn't a threat, is my point.
 
truthatallcost said:
The left wing nutters suddenly love concealed carry all of a sudden.
Click to expand...


We've been telling you guys for ages that the right doesn't have a monopoly on guns, then you act all surprised.
 
Metric Mouse said:
Like that guy in Florida who was arguing with the lady about parking in a handicap spot. Tossed hard by the boyfriend who went to continue the assualt but then backed up at the sight of a gun; once one person disengages and retreats self defense is kinda off the table.
Click to expand...


Did the guy in Florida back up to mace the other guy?
 
Luce said:
Did the guy in Florida back up to mace the other guy?
Click to expand...
Who knows! Maybe he backed up to toss acid on him! It could have been anything!

No, no mace was involved. Just an assualt and then a retreat.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom