On This Date 79 Years Ago......

[Tigerace117]

American pilots signed on to fight for China against Japan
A group of American pilots signed on with China to battle the Japanese air force. It was a secret operation, mobilized months before the attack on Pearl Harbor and out of the view of Congress.

Except, of course, that there is no evidence whatsoever that the Japanese were motivated to attack Pearl Harbor by the actions of the Flying Tigers in China.

 

[Tigerace117]

What is your point .... first.

I already made it. Then you quoted it, so clearly you supposedly have a claim to make.

 

[Robertinfremont]

FDR was not obligated to allow Japan dictate what US military bases US military personnel could be stationed at.

Americans flying war planes called the Flying Tigers attacked Japans forces prior to Japan bombing Oahu.

 

[Robertinfremont]

Except, of course, that there is no evidence whatsoever that the Japanese were motivated to attack Pearl Harbor by the actions of the Flying Tigers in China.

That is not even a decent reply and you know it is not.

Japan definitely attacked Pearl Harbor. FDR definitely was told by his senior admiral not to bring ships to Pearl. Are you trying to claim FDR was just an innocent helpless kitten?

 

[Robertinfremont]

I already made it. Then you quoted it, so clearly you supposedly have a claim to make.

And I made my point too.

 

[Manc Skipper]

1946.

William Joyce (Lord Haw-Haw) was hanged for treason, in London. Born in Brooklyn, New York, he had broadcast propaganda from Nazi Germany during the Second World War to both Britain and the United States. The broadcasts started on 18th September 1939 and continued until 30th April 1945, when Hamburg was overrun by the British Army.
1925
Benito Mussolini dissolves the Italian parliament and proclaims himself dictator of Italy, taking the title "Il Duce" (the Leader)

 

[Robertinfremont]

Except, of course, that there is no evidence whatsoever that the Japanese were motivated to attack Pearl Harbor by the actions of the Flying Tigers in China.

False conclusion.

1. Japan attacked Pearl Harbor
2. Japan was negotiating what in DC?
3. Japan pulled out of the talks. Why?
Answers are here.

 

[Antiwar]

Both of these threads need more exposure:

"The Coming War on China" documentary

Words are insufficient to describe how utterly inhumane US militarism is. "Your tax dollars at work."

debatepolitics.com

 

[Robertinfremont]

The Flying Tigers were legendary for their bravery and their daring during World War II. In his book “The Flying Tigers,” Tucson native Samuel Kleiner set out to tell the personal stories of those who flew bombers for China against Japan. An excerpt from his just-published book:

“Last week ten Japanese bombers came winging their carefree way into (China), heading directly for Kunming … the Flying Tigers swooped, let the Japanese have it. Of the ten bombers, said (Chinese) reports, four plummeted to earth in flames. The rest turned tail and fled. Tiger casualties: none.”


“A hundred American volunteers had taken the measure of the enemy,” Clare Boothe wrote in Life. “Who, in the face of that measure, dared doubt that America could—if it would—defeat Japan?”
The Flying Tigers’ shark-nosed P-40s — also known as Tomahawks — would go down in history as one of the iconic images from World War II

 

[NewfieMom]

Are you denying North Vietnam’s regime was communist?

No. At least I am not denying it. But as President Eisenhower stated, all the Vietnamese people wanted Ho Chi Minh to be their leader back when the French left. Had the US never entered, there would have been no more bloodshed. Things would have been as they are now.


"Eisenhower's Views on the Popularity of Ho Chi Minh


Source: Dwight D. Eisenhower, Mandate for Change, 1953-56 (Garden City, NY: Doubleday & Compnay, Inc., 1963), p. 372



I am convinced that the French could not win the war because the internal political situation in Vietnam, weak and confused, badly weakened their military position. I have never talked or corresponded with a person knowledgeable in Indochinese affairs who did not agree that had elections been held as of the time of the fighting, possibly 80 per cent of the population would have voted for the Communist Ho Chi Minh as their leader rather than Chief of State Bao Dai. Indeed, the lack of leadership and drive on the part of Bao Dai was a factor in the feeling prevalent among Vietnamese that they had nothing to fight for. As one Frenchman said to me, 'What Vietnam needs is another Syngman Rhee, regardless of all the difficulties the presence of such a personality would entail.'"

 

[swing_voter]

The Vietnamese people were fighting for their freedom while under fierce attack from a primitive doctrine of the USA. The Americans lost that war.

The Soviets were spreading their doctrine after WWII. They'd give money, guns and training to anyone who embraced the communist cause.

Over 2,000 Soviet troops died in the Vietnam War.

 

[Tigerace117]

False conclusion.

1. Japan attacked Pearl Harbor
2. Japan was negotiating what in DC?
3. Japan pulled out of the talks. Why?
Answers are here.

Japan attacked Pearl Harbor because it knew that the United States would not continue to fuel it's rampage throughout Asia by trading with it. Japan was unwilling to accept that the US would not allow it to conquer and enslave the people of of China.

 

[Tigerace117]

Americans flying war planes called the Flying Tigers attacked Japans forces prior to Japan bombing Oahu.

American pilots, working for the Republic of China.

They defended Chinese cities from Japanese air attack, not as members of the US military, but essentially as state sponsored mercenaries.

And again, there is zero evidence that that motivated Japan to attack the US.

 

[Tigerace117]

That is not even a decent reply and you know it is not.

Japan definitely attacked Pearl Harbor. FDR definitely was told by his senior admiral not to bring ships to Pearl. Are you trying to claim FDR was just an innocent helpless kitten?

I am claiming that Japan had no right to try and dictate where US military personnel went on US territory, and you thinking that they should have said right is laughable.

 

[Antiwar]

Japan attacked Pearl Harbor because it knew that the United States would not continue to fuel it's rampage throughout Asia by trading with it. Japan was unwilling to accept that the US would not allow it to conquer and enslave the people of of China.

What should US militarism do about China, in the current era?

 

[Tigerace117]

What should US militarism do about China, in the current era?

The US should, and will, continue to support our allies, ensure that Taiwan has a guarantee of our support, and continue to condemn China's borderline genocide in Xinjiang and repression of the Tibetans and people of Hong Kong.

For starters.

 

[Antiwar]

These simple principles remains true:

The US government doesn't like their economic and militaristic hegemony threatened.

US multinational corporations do like exploiting others and other lands.

US militarism does like creating enemies.

It's all interconnected. It's all in their "national interests."

 

[Tigerace117]

These simple principles remains true:

The US government doesn't like their economic and militaristic hegemony threatened.

US multinational corporations do like exploiting others and other lands.

US militarism does like creating enemies.

It's all interconnected. It's all in their "national interests."

So you are claiming that the US “forced” Japan to attack them because of supposed desire for “hegemony“?

Your claims about the US “creating enemies” are silly. Likewise, you have no credibility to cry about “US multinationals“ when you are happy to turn a blind eye to Chinese companies doing the exact same thing.

But hey, way to ignore the actual facts.....again.

 

[Robertinfremont]

I am claiming that Japan had no right to try and dictate where US military personnel went on US territory, and you thinking that they should have said right is laughable.

Nobody but you says Japan dictated where our military personnel went on US Territory

 

[Tigerace117]

Nobody but you says Japan dictated where our military personnel went on US Territory

You are the one crying because FDR stationed US Navy ships at a major US Navy base.

 

[Ringo Stalin]

Except they really aren’t, as the records released after the fall of the USSR show quite clearly.

What records? Stalin said: Hitlers come and go, but the German people remain. That's on the record. The rest is lying western propaganda of Cold war.

 

[Tigerace117]

What records? Stalin said: Hitlers come and go, but the German people remain. That's on the record. The rest is lying western propaganda of Cold war.

The numerous records which came out into the open.

Khrushchev was a Western propagandaist? Sure you want to go with that bud?

 

[Jean-s]

The Soviets were spreading their doctrine after WWII. They'd give money, guns and training to anyone who embraced the communist cause.

Over 2,000 Soviet troops died in the Vietnam War.

Many Americans were sent to Vietnam and suffered maiming and death for no good reason before being defeated by an impoverished people. Disgraceful.

 

[swing_voter]

Many Americans were sent to Vietnam and suffered maiming and death for no good reason before being defeated by an impoverished people. Disgraceful.

The Cold War was much bigger than Vietnam.

Korea, Columbia, Cuba, Brazil, Greece, France, Germany, Spain, etc, etc.

We had to show we would stick by our allies.

 

[Antiwar]

See my bracketed replies.:

So you are claiming that the US “forced” Japan to attack them because of supposed desire for “hegemony“?

[ridiculous]

Your claims about the US “creating enemies” are silly.

[I suppose you coerce and threaten people and they like it.]

Likewise, you have no credibility to cry about “US multinationals“ when you are happy to turn a blind eye to Chinese companies doing the exact same thing.

[What are you going on about?]

But hey, way to ignore the actual facts.....again.

[What "facts" do you think I was replying to?]

I love your shotgun and machete approach to debating. I posted some solid general principles. You throw several clay and straw pigeons in the air and fire two rounds missing the pigeons. Then you throw your shotgun down, wield your machete, and hack at the clay and straw pigeons.

Get 'em, Tiger!