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Peaceful Muslim said:I did answer your question DivineComedy earlier .i don't know if it wasn't clear to you.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/showthread.php?t=8170&page=13
There is a huge difference between 9/11 and what is taking place in Palestine.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=260851&postcount=125Peaceful Muslim said:What i wanted to clarify, if someone is using this method under the name of serving Islam of course they are mistaken tell me something, what good came out of 9/11 if the so called muslim did it for the sake of muslims?? this is why i said those organizations relate in noway to true Islam concepts in War
I know you will relate the same to Hamas actions.. remember when i told you when "if i came to the US and bombed you then call me a terrorist" Hamas at least are resisting in an actual war .If Hamas went to the US and bombed a building there, everybody will condemn that action..
Peaceful Muslim said:i don't believe in this. i said before before its no problem to have an opinion about a paricular thing but to present it as an insult to the other this is not acceptable.
But if this is the case then we lost our humanity.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=228510&postcount=1PeacefulMuslim said:...and israilians wrote insulting comments about prophet muhammad on the walls of Mosque in Qalqilia..!!!
http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=228712&postcount=3Wotk said:This is a fake.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=234763&postcount=7Tashah said:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=259872&postcount=106PeacefulMuslim said:4- As for Israel and palestinian conflict, As palestinians we believe Israelis do not have the right to live in our land as if it is theirs but we do not mind them living between us peacefully. Details of that are illustrated in history books we read throughot the years and what we know from our ancestors until today. I do not believe we are people who happen to love dying for a land that is not ours. if that was the case you would have seen us given up long loong time ago.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=260304&postcount=110Tashah said:Here you went trolling for the sympathy card. The Israeli/Palestinian issue has nothing to do with the cartoons and subsequent Muslim response.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=262681&postcount=204Tashah said:One of the aspects of Arabic culture that I find truly barbaric is the practice of 'Honor Killings'.
Peaceful Muslim said:i don't believe in this. i said before before its no problem to have an opinion about a paricular thing but to present it as an insult to the other this is not acceptable.
But if this is the case then we lost our humanity.
DivineComedy said:Okay, I asked the question as to whether the following argument is valid:
Since “Muslims are against hurting civilians in any way,“ and since you “believe that 9/11 served the people who want Islam to look bad and justify the war against it,“ and since the 9/11 attackers wore civilian disguise, consequently, the use of civilian disguise in warfare serves the people who want civilians “to look bad and justify the war against it,” therefore, those people that use civilian disguise in warfare are the enemies of Islam.
“Peaceful” Muslim, in your opinion, is that a valid argument?
This is what was claimed to be the answer:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=260851&postcount=125
Since Peaceful Muslim’s answer is vague and totally incompatible with the argument being valid, therefore, the premise that, “Muslims are against hurting civilians in any way” must be suspected to be false. Since the principle means of warfare used by Hamas has been the betrayal of civilian clothes, which is a proof of dishonesty, and since Peaceful Muslim says, “If Hamas went to the US and bombed a building there, everybody will condemn that action,” and since Peaceful Muslim has repeatedly avoided condemning the use of civilian disguise by Hamas, and since Peaceful Muslim says, “Muslims are against hurting civilians in any way,” therefore, it must be true that “Peaceful” Muslim is a hypocrite and or it must be true that it was a LIE for “Peaceful” Muslim to say, “Muslims are against hurting civilians in any way.”
“The signs of a hypocrite are three: Whenever he speaks, he tells a lie; and whenever he promises, he breaks his promise; and whenever he is entrusted, he betrays (proves to be dishonest).”
http://www.islamonline.net/english/d...iscover3.shtml
Tashah said:I'm still here PeacefulMuslim. I'm going to partake in a particular bit of chronology of 'Now What!' to demonstrate something to you.
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Post #1
http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=228510&postcount=1
Post #3
http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=228712&postcount=3
Post #7
http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=234763&postcount=7
You see PeacefulMuslim... I spoke the truth. I proved that your statement was correct. Even though it was detrimental to Israel, I spoke the truth. Moving on....
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Post #106
http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=259872&postcount=106
Post #110
http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=260304&postcount=110
Again I spoke the truth. Your post had nothing to do with the theme of this thread that you yourself authored. Instead of taking my hint though, you continued speaking of Palestine and Hamas etc. Very well. Let's go here...
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Post #204
http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=262681&postcount=204
Notice that 'Arab culture' was the identifier... not Islam. Although this subject is painful and considered taboo in the Middle East, I spoke the truth. If you think otherwise, I invite you to read this webpage:
Queen Noor speaks out against Crimes of Honor
That webpage is on the official website of Her Majesty Queen Noor of Jordan. If I am being racist, bigoted, and untruthful... then so is Queen Noor. Do you really want to go there? I think not. Again, I spoke the truth.
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Do I ask hard questions of you in my posts? Yes indeed. So far you have been reluctant to provide sensible and sensical answers. I am not here to harm you. I am only attempting to see if there is a real personality in there beyond the stock replies that I can read on any Islamic website. Is there? Do you have any thoughts that are counter-culture, or is your world so perfect that originality is no longer a requisite?
You may reply, or not. I am always open to dialogue. I just wanted you to read this and ponder some of the moments that have transpired since Post #1.
Tashah
GySgt said:It's the difference between freedom and oppression, dear. Freedom has it's price. It has it's pros and cons. While having the right to express one's opinion, one must also respect the right of others to express theirs. This means a toleration to insults and disrespects. There is also a price for oppression. America has received countless refugees from every region on earth and from every religion. They come here, because they prefer to live in a tolerable civilization rather than the intolerations of their mother lands.
The disrespect that can result from freedom will always trump the intolerations of oppression.
Tashah said:I am only attempting to see if there is a real personality in there beyond the stock replies that I can read on any Islamic website. Is there?
My name is Tashah, and thank you for clarifying that to everyone.Peaceful Muslim said:I never said you are making up stuff Tashash.
In Post #110, I attempted to veer you back to the theme of this thread.Peaceful Muslim said:True the palestinians & Israeli conflict is not part of the discussion & Irrelevant but somehow you and I got there maybe because of DivineComedy posts.
You are quite correct. We are at war and I have dedicated my talents to this struggle. It is a war on many fronts, and a war that I don't intend to lose. To put it plainly PeacefulMuslim... either you learn to live with me in peace or you will have to physically drive me into the sea. I am well prepared for either scenario. I yearn for a peaceful resolution to our differences. If this is not to be, then so be it. I will ask for no quarter and deliver none.PeacefulMuslim said:i said 9/11 is different from the case of palestinian-Israeli conflict. the difference is that we are in War.
Hamas is a terrorist organization that kills civilians. It engages in kidnappings, carjackings, assassinations, rocket and mortar attacks, and suicide bombings. Palestinians have historically had the luxury of choices but have spurned them all... invading Israel in 1947, not participating in the peace agreements between Israel and Egypt/Jordan, rejecting Camp David and Oslo, rejecting the opportunity of Israel's withdrawal from Gaza. You made your bed with Abu Arafat, and now you continue to fornicate with his legacy. Sleep with dogs and you get fleas PeacefulMuslim.PeacefulMuslim said:Hamas is fighting for a country for the people. Its a true statement : In any battle muslims shouldn't hurt a civilian, woman, children and old men. your argument is how do we ellect Hamas when they don't follow such a statement? Palestinians do not have the luxury of choice DivineComedy, they lost everyfaith in peace agreements not because they have chosen this . this is how things were since 1948.. Its not just the army, even Israel civilians are involved.
You continually say that Islam is not about terrorism... yet you consider Hamas to be an 'Islamic movement'. Which is it Peaceful Muslim? Is Hamas the face of terrorism or is it the face of Islam? Or is it both? Your hypocracy is stunning and pro-forma.Peaceful Muslim said:Hamas has their issues as an Islamic movement, but the palestinians see it as a hope.
PeacefulMuslim said:Does palestine have an army?? do they have weapons? No, No. For God's sake they fight Israel with stones!!!
I brought it up because of your persistant and inexplicable apathy towards crimes committed by Muslims. You loudly denounce the Danish cartoons, yet you never fail to exculpate violent Muslim actions. I would suggest that you clean up your own decrepit backyard before venturing into someone else's.Peaceful Muslim said:as for Arabian Culture, what you said is true but again its irrelevant as well and i don't know why did you talk about it in the first place and my answer came based on this.
Islam is not universal. It is an individualistic choice. This is what you fail to comprehend. Islam and Islamic Sharia-law are not binding upon those who prefer modernity... or another religious path to eternal salvation. Although Islam may be perfect for you, it is not incumbant upon the billions of others on this globe who prefer a different path. Perhaps if Islam was as tolerant as you seem to believe it is, your ungainly defense of its precepts in this thread would be universally unnecessary.Peaceful Muslim said:when i started my posts i wanted to defend Islam and Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) not my society. Islam is universal, isn't it?
Peaceful Muslim said:Then why do we come with many rules if we have the freedom of expression?
tell me something if you are working with someone who keeps expressing his opinion about you or others in insulting way, aren't you gonna avoid him at some point of time?
Religions are very sensitive matters my friend for everyone because they are God's. we should be respectful to God shouldn't we??
Peaceful Muslim said:Hamas has their issues as an Islamic movement, but the palestinians see it as a hope.
Peaceful Muslim said:Islam is universal, isn't it?
Tashah said:You are quite correct. We are at war and I have dedicated my talents to this struggle. It is a war on many fronts, and a war that I don't intend to lose. To put it plainly PeacefulMuslim... either you learn to live with me in peace or you will have to physically drive me into the sea. I am well prepared for either scenario. I yearn for a peaceful resolution to our differences. If this is not to be, then so be it. I will ask for no quarter and deliver none.
Peaceful Muslim said:bravooooo DivineComedy what a great conclusion you came up with !! you are not getting my point DivineComedy eversince i started my posts, do ya?
i said it is wrong to use such a method, what does that mean ? 9/11 is a result of certain elements believing that because of the US policy, they deserved it . This relates in noway to Islam at all
i said 9/11 is different from the case of palestinian-Israeli conflict. the difference is that we are in War. Hamas is fighting for a country for the people. Its a true statement : In any battle muslims shouldn't hurt a civilian, woman, children and old men. your argument is how do we ellect Hamas when they don't follow such a statement? Palestinians do not have the luxury of choice DivineComedy, they lost everyfaith in peace agreements not because they have chosen this . this is how things were since 1948..
Its not just the army, even Israel civilians are involved.
your argument is valid for 9/11 but not for Hamas. Hamas has their issues as an Islamic movement, but the palestinians see it as a hope. Does palestine have an army?? do they have weapons ? No, No . For God's sake they fight Israel with stones!!!
http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=225328&postcount=12DivineComedy said:I am having a real hard time distinguishing between civilians of the nation as muslims.
Please help me!
You say “never hurt civilians whatever was the reason,” well if your nation as muslims sends out messengers your nation as muslims calls “martyrs,” that do dress in civilian clothes as the principle means of warfare, we can not stop from hurting “civilians.”
I am having a real hard time finding out what “nation as muslims” claims the magical “they” that Saddam said “should, rather, be reassured and helped to save themselves, and their surroundings:“
“On the basis of what we said about Iraq while confronting aggressions, the world now needs to abort the US aggressive schemes, including its aggression on the Afghan people, which must stop.
Again we say that when someone feels that he is unjustly treated, and no one is repulsing or stopping the injustice inflicted on him, he personally seeks ways and means for lifting that justice. Of course, not everyone is capable of finding the best way for lifting the injustice inflicted on him. People resort to what they think is the best way according to their own ideas, and they are not all capable of reaching out for what is beyond what is available to arrive to the best idea or means.
To find the best way, after having found their way to God and His rights, those who are inflicted by injustice need not to be isolated from their natural milieu, or be ignored deliberately, or as a result of mis-appreciation, by the officials in this milieu. They should, rather, be reassured and helped to save themselves, and their surroundings.” (Saddam Hussein Shabban 13, 1422 H. October 29, 2001.)
So we can distinguish between the “civilian” and soldier, do you want to help me find out who Saddam was talking about there?
Is Hamas a terrorist group? Is it alright if we hurt Hamas and their allies?
Tashah said:Again I spoke the truth. Your post had nothing to do with the theme of this thread that you yourself authored. Instead of taking my hint though, you continued speaking of Palestine and Hamas etc.
Tashah said:You are quite correct. We are at war and I have dedicated my talents to this struggle. It is a war on many fronts, and a war that I don't intend to lose. To put it plainly PeacefulMuslim... either you learn to live with me in peace or you will have to physically drive me into the sea. I am well prepared for either scenario. I yearn for a peaceful resolution to our differences. If this is not to be, then so be it. I will ask for no quarter and deliver none.
Hamas is a terrorist organization that kills civilians. It engages in kidnappings, carjackings, assassinations, rocket and mortar attacks, and suicide bombings. Palestinians have historically had the luxury of choices but have spurned them all... invading Israel in 1947, not participating in the peace agreements between Israel and Egypt/Jordan, rejecting Camp David and Oslo, rejecting the opportunity of Israel's withdrawal from Gaza. You made your bed with Abu Arafat, and now you continue to fornicate with his legacy. Sleep with dogs and you get fleas PeacefulMuslim.
You continually say that Islam is not about terrorism... yet you consider Hamas to be an 'Islamic movement'. Which is it Peaceful Muslim? Is Hamas the face of terrorism or is it the face of Islam? Or is it both? Your hypocracy is stunning and pro-forma.
Stones??? That is and sheer propoganda arranged for global consumption. Do you think it is stones that kill Israeli civilians? Hardly. It is Kalashnikov 5.56mm assault rifles, mortars, Qassam rockets, IED's, and explosive vests. Stones? Please... let's be real here PeacefulMuslim.
I brought it up because of your persistant and inexplicable apathy towards crimes committed by Muslims. You loudly denounce the Danish cartoons, yet you never fail to exculpate violent Muslim actions. I would suggest that you clean up your own decrepit backyard before venturing into someone else's.
Islam is not universal. It is an individualistic choice. This is what you fail to comprehend. Islam and Islamic Sharia-law are not binding upon those who prefer modernity... or another religious path to eternal salvation. Although Islam may be perfect for you, it is not incumbant upon the billions of others on this globe who prefer a different path. Perhaps if Islam was as tolerant as you seem to believe it is, your ungainly defense of its precepts in this thread would be universally unnecessary.
You do seem to have a problem with that concept. Peace in your view is nothing less than total Palestinian supremacy. As Golda Meir once said "Peace will come when the Palestinians love their children more than they hate Israel." She was right. You still martyr your children and peace is nowhere in sight.PeacefulMuslim said:yeah right Peace!
Nor do we PiecemealMuslim... and two can play the mangled name game.PeacefulMuslim said:Invaded!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! we do not compromise our land Tashash
Don't ask me. Answer me. Is Hamas an 'Islamist movement' or is it a terrorist organization? Or both? If Hamas is an 'Islamist movement' as you said it was, then Islam does indeed encompass terrorist organizations.PeacefulMuslim said:I don't believe i said something wrong cuz this is what they are known for isn't it??
Don't give me that 'we only throw stones' crap. I know the difference between a tossed stone and a 5.56mm round whizzing past at a velocity of 700 meters per second. I have witnessed the destruction caused by Palestinian mortar rounds and Qassam rockets. Stones and slingshots? Please, your propoganda borders on the absurd.PeacefulMuslim said:I am talking about palestinians!!!!
PiecemealMuslim... it was you who identified Hamas as an 'Islamist movement', not I. You equated Hamas with religion, not I. It was you who authored this thread about cartoons and the response from Muslims, not I. If anyone has injected religion into this thread it has been you, not I.PeacefulMuslim said:what about crimes done by Jews Tashash?? Lets face it Tashash noone is behaving according to their religion. that is what i keep telling just because soomeone is behaving in a certain way that doesn't mean their religion implies that behavior.
Yes, you are defending Islam. You started with noble intent but abandoned that when the posters here didn't agree with your belief that the laws of Islam trump freedom of expression. I told you plainly that you wouldn't win that argument here. You sealed your fate when you hinted that maybe bombings would bring us around to your point of view. You were wrong on both counts. Freedom of expression is not negotiable, and people around these parts get a bit testy when they are threatened.PeacefulMuslim said:its universal meaning its is not a state i am not defending the arabian culture i am defending Islam which is there in many other cultures than Arabs only. there are american muslims, english, chinese, german, ...etc??
Tashah said:I know the difference between a tossed stone and a 5.56mm round whizzing past at a velocity of 700 meters per second.
Peaceful Muslim said:yeah right Peace!
The Pals use about every AK version and knock-off ever manufactured. It was indeed a 5.56mm round that I recovered.GySgt said:Palestinians use AK-101s and Ak-102s?
teacher said:
Tashah said:The Pals use about every AK version and knock-off ever manufactured. It was indeed a 5.56mm round that I recovered.
Tash
“This is a message to everyone who think that our nation as muslims is radical or violant,” (Peaceful Muslim)Peaceful Muslim said:its universal meaning its is not a state i am not defending the arabian culture i am defending Islam which is there in many other cultures than Arabs only.
there are american muslims, english, chinese, german, ...etc??
Tashah said:You are quite correct. We are at war and I have dedicated my talents to this struggle. It is a war on many fronts, and a war that I don't intend to lose. To put it plainly PeacefulMuslim... either you learn to live with me in peace or you will have to physically drive me into the sea. I am well prepared for either scenario. I yearn for a peaceful resolution to our differences. If this is not to be, then so be it. I will ask for no quarter and deliver none.
Peaceful Muslim said:yeah right Peace!
Invaded!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! we do not compromise our land Tashash
Tashah said:Nor do we PiecemealMuslim... and two can play the mangled name game.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=268957&postcount=1815Peaceful Muslim said:i am defending Islam
Tashah said:Sharia 'law' didn't save Abdul Rahman. Only the direct intervention of Afghan President Hamid Karzai, Pope Benedict, and the governments of Western nations saved this innocent man from being beheaded.