North Korea Expands Long-Range Missile Base, Analysts Say

[Lethargic Aptitude]

In none of my posts have I stated NK is like any other nation; they are not by a long shot. I also haven't said there is an easy answer either way, and a chance will be taken either way because no one can guess how many lives will be lost in the process of disarming North Korea; not to mention the fall out. Would Jong-un nuke anyone? Maybe, maybe not but since he doesn't seem hell bent on destroying his country I'll venture he won't. Either way it's a crap shoot.

Yet you told me what? "What other country in the history of nuclear weapons has used in war besides the US?" Sure sounds like you think that NK is like other nations. Believing that you can deal with NK is treating them just like a legit country. They are not legit and they do not want peace no matter what propaganda they might spew.

So are you proposing to use the military to remove him from power and basically take on North Korea as a nation building process?

No I am saying that the only real solution is to take out the regime in power. No one wants war, but here we are there has been nothing accomplished, just empty words. We cannot just go on pretending that NK will be good.

Well it seems like South Korea, the current US administration, Russia, and China have a different view than yours. I don't know conclusively if Jong-un will end up being a nutter who ends up attacking his neighbors, but your proposing war to avoid a war no one is certain will happen. Maybe next we should invade Pakistan because that's a country whose nuclear weapons are a revolution away from falling in the hands of Islamic extremists.

You left out Japan. Peace with NK is like peace with ISIS; it will never happen. There will never be peace on the Korean peninsula with them in power.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

It is completely rational to want nuclear deterrence given the actions of the US. Any dictator would be a fool to not want it. We may not like his actions, but that doesn't make them irrational. As far as NK building up it's military and wanting to take over the world, it is NK.....you would have an argument if we were talking about China but to think NK is going to try for world domination is rather humorous. NK essentially has the nation version of Little man syndrome, he talks big and wants enough power to ensure the larger powers don't mess with him.

Except that no matter how much nukes they build they will never be deterrent to the US. In fact the more they build the more it will be likely that we would do airstrikes. They are fools if they believe that their dismal collection will deter a super power. You need more than just nukes to deter a super power when you are such an ass backwards country.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

(Pyongyang is also still producing nuclear weapons, according to researchers studying satellite images, casting a new shadow over disarmament talks)
By Andrew Jeong
Dec. 6, 2018 2:12 a.m. ET
https://www.wsj.com/articles/north-korea-expands-long-range-missile-base-analysts-say-1544080319

My question is whatever happened to Trump's claim that NK is falling into line and that America is safe now?

SEOUL—North Korea is expanding military facilities thought to house long-range missiles that can hit the U.S., according to a think-tank report that revives doubts about the regime’s sincerity in disarmament negotiations.

Pyongyang is still producing nuclear weapons and appears to be upgrading a missile base near the Chinese border, according to the analysis by the Middlebury Institute of International Studies at Monterey, Calif., based on satellite imagery taken in recent months.

“The missile base at Yeongjeo-dong has long been a concern to U.S. and South Korean officials because of its unique location,” the report said, referring to the border site, which it said is likely to receive the North’s latest weapons.

Seven miles away, North Korea has been building new facilities that appear to be either another missile base or an expansion of the Yeongjeo-dong facility, said the Middlebury analysis, first reported by CNN.

The U.S. Embassy in Seoul declined to comment.

U.S. officials have questioned whether North Korea is serious about giving up nuclear weapons as negotiations falter due to disagreements over U.S.-led sanctions and the pace of North Korean disarmament.

North Korea insists it has made significant concessions, including dismantling a missile launch site and a nuclear-weapons test site, and has called for the lifting of sanctions that ban or limit its trade in coal, textiles and raw materials. Washington has refused to ease sanctions until Pyongyang takes more concrete steps toward denuclearization.

Expansion of the Yeongjeo-dong site wouldn’t necessarily violate the agreement that North Korean leader Kim Jong Un and President Trump reached in Singapore in June.

The deal obliges both sides to pursue new relations and “to work toward complete denuclearization”—vague phrases that were drafted by Pyongyang officials, according to a former senior North Korean official who defected to the South. The lack of specifics in the agreement has given diplomats room to negotiate, but also failed to bridge fundamental disagreements between the sides.

The U.S., though, has kept open the possibility of another summit between the two leaders, which Mr. Trump has said could take place early in the new year.

Meanwhile, warming inter-Korean relations are complicating the nuclear calculus.

South Korea has been urging Washington to accept some North Korean demands for a partial lifting of sanctions. Such a step would allow for renewed economic engagement between North and South, a goal of South Korean President Moon Jae-in.

But the South Korean leader has been cautious not to get too far out ahead of his U.S. ally. In a meeting with Mr. Trump last weekend, Mr. Moon expressed continued support for sanctions on Pyongyang, according to his spokesman.

Meanwhile, the U.S. and South Korea have worked to ease tensions with Pyongyang by scaling back joint military exercises this week. North Korea likewise toned down its usual criticism of the maneuvers, only briefly calling the exercises a “dangerous” move in a short article on its state media.

SOOO much WINNING!!!

 

[Nap]

Except that no matter how much nukes they build they will never be deterrent to the US. In fact the more they build the more it will be likely that we would do airstrikes. They are fools if they believe that their dismal collection will deter a super power. You need more than just nukes to deter a super power when you are such an ass backwards country.

Lol, the artillery they have pointed at South Korea is already a deterrent. Them having nukes solidifies that deterrence. Given the propensity for the US government to bomb nations incapable of defending themselves it should be evident that their porcupine strategy is working otherwise we would have already bombed them. They know full well they can't challenge a super power, their goal is to simply have enough capacity to kill enough people that it would make the choice to strike them untenable. Should the US decide a first strike on NK and they unleash hell on Seoul killing millions would be a PR outrage worldwide that would not be positive towards the US.

 

[Empirica]

I guess what I would like to discuss or hear is a solution. How can Kim be brought to the table and responsible negotiations and solutions be reached.

That's easy; cut off his personal supply line to the west's finest amenities.

The little porkster's a slave to his cravings for imported creature comforts.

Obviously; starving North Korean babies have no affect on Spoiled Leader.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

Lol, the artillery they have pointed at South Korea is already a deterrent. Them having nukes solidifies that deterrence. Given the propensity for the US government to bomb nations incapable of defending themselves it should be evident that their porcupine strategy is working otherwise we would have already bombed them. They know full well they can't challenge a super power, their goal is to simply have enough capacity to kill enough people that it would make the choice to strike them untenable. Should the US decide a first strike on NK and they unleash hell on Seoul killing millions would be a PR outrage worldwide that would not be positive towards the US.

So what you seem to be saying is that because NK is building WMD's and has a military, we should allow them to get even stronger so that they can terrorize other countries. What you are describing will only lead to what you want me be afraid of; millions of people dying.

And what about Japan? What if Japan or some other country within striking distance decides to preemptively take out the missile bases? Or do you think that th entire world will just cower to NK because they have nukes?

There is no confirmation that NK is only thinking of a deterrent and does have other plans. You certainly cannot trust anything that NK says or promises. Millions of people will be at North Koreas mercy, and looking how KIM treats his own people, I assert that Kim cannot be trusted to have mercy on anyone.

 

[ElChupacabra]

Yet you told me what? "What other country in the history of nuclear weapons has used in war besides the US?" Sure sounds like you think that NK is like other nations. Believing that you can deal with NK is treating them just like a legit country. They are not legit and they do not want peace no matter what propaganda they might spew.

It's not a question of believing they want peace, it's a matter of what actions Jong-un takes that makes that happen. The country's leadership has proven untrustworthy in the past which is why any agreement would have to be much more stringent than with any other nation; assuming that were even possible. And yes, regardless of the rhetoric, North Korea has not gone to war with anyone since the end of the Korean war.

No I am saying that the only real solution is to take out the regime in power.

And replace the current regime with what? You don't just take out a regime and expect the populace that's only known tyrants to suddenly find a leader unlike the last one.

No one wants war, but here we are there has been nothing accomplished, just empty words. We cannot just go on pretending that NK will be good.

It's interesting that you claim no one wants war, but yet here you are advocating for precisely that scenario. Clearly the South Koreans disagree with your assessment; now whether this is just a ruse by the North Korean is the bigger question. I don't trust Jong-un's sincerity at all since he hasn't come forth with a plan defining what "peace" means in a practical perspective.

You left out Japan. Peace with NK is like peace with ISIS; it will never happen. There will never be peace on the Korean peninsula with them in power.

That's something you can't say with absolute certainty.

 

[JoanDavis]

That's easy; cut off his personal supply line to the west's finest amenities.

The little porkster's a slave to his cravings for imported creature comforts.

Obviously; starving North Korean babies have no affect on Spoiled Leader.

Please don't insult Kim Jong Un. He is one of trump's best friends. trump would NEVER cut off his personal supply of American luxuries. Just like he wouldn't do anything to upset his other best friends Putin and Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia.

So who cares if there are thousands of people in dying at the hands of these 3 dictators. It's more important to make sure trump and his 3 BFF are given $50 million penthouses, lots of weapons to kill innocent babies and of course loads and loads of American taxpayer money.

 

[JoanDavis]

So what you seem to be saying is that because NK is building WMD's and has a military, we should allow them to get even stronger so that they can terrorize other countries. What you are describing will only lead to what you want me be afraid of; millions of people dying.

And what about Japan? What if Japan or some other country within striking distance decides to preemptively take out the missile bases? Or do you think that th entire world will just cower to NK because they have nukes?

There is no confirmation that NK is only thinking of a deterrent and does have other plans. You certainly cannot trust anything that NK says or promises. Millions of people will be at North Koreas mercy, and looking how KIM treats his own people, I assert that Kim cannot be trusted to have mercy on anyone.

So North Korea is still building WMDs. Well it makes perfect sense for trump to threaten to go to war with IRAN.

America's REAL enemies are North Korea, Russia and Saudi Arabia. And who are trump's allies now? Yep North Korea, Russia and Saudi Arabia.

It's those Germans, French and Canadians we should be worried about.

 

[LosAngelesAngel]

~ If Kim does not blow himself up first I believe he is going to do something stupid and prompt US military response. Actually I thought it would happen when N Korea sent that rocket over Japan !
For all we know Kim is just a figurehead and may not even be in charge ? :neutral:

 

[Nap]

So what you seem to be saying is that because NK is building WMD's and has a military, we should allow them to get even stronger so that they can terrorize other countries. What you are describing will only lead to what you want me be afraid of; millions of people dying.

And what about Japan? What if Japan or some other country within striking distance decides to preemptively take out the missile bases? Or do you think that th entire world will just cower to NK because they have nukes?

There is no confirmation that NK is only thinking of a deterrent and does have other plans. You certainly cannot trust anything that NK says or promises. Millions of people will be at North Koreas mercy, and looking how KIM treats his own people, I assert that Kim cannot be trusted to have mercy on anyone.

I don't see how it is our place to decide what they are allowed to have as they are a sovereign nation and they have yet to demonstrate that they will terrorize anyone. Once another country surpasses us and decides our military and nuke cache is too large, do you really think we are going to submit to their wishes? This idea the world shoukld bow down to US power is ridiculous, we won't be the #1 power forever and the rest of the world is going to remember how we abused our role and influence. I think it would be wise to remember that before making demands of other nations.

Also, it is not his mercy I place my trust in. It is his will to stay in power that I have faith in. The only countries I worry about getting a nuke are places like Iran as they would be more likely to use a nuke with little to no care of retribution. I have little doubt that when Iran gets a nuke it will find it's way to Isreal.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

It's not a question of believing they want peace, it's a matter of what actions Jong-un takes that makes that happen. The country's leadership has proven untrustworthy in the past which is why any agreement would have to be much more stringent than with any other nation; assuming that were even possible. And yes, regardless of the rhetoric, North Korea has not gone to war with anyone since the end of the Korean war.

Kim will not honor any agreement, he will lie and claim to but he wont.

And replace the current regime with what? You don't just take out a regime and expect the populace that's only known tyrants to suddenly find a leader unlike the last one.

Seriously are you that dense? Every heard of South Korea and a united Korea? Come on your question was stupid.

It's interesting that you claim no one wants war, but yet here you are advocating for precisely that scenario. Clearly the South Koreans disagree with your assessment; now whether this is just a ruse by the North Korean is the bigger question. I don't trust Jong-un's sincerity at all since he hasn't come forth with a plan defining what "peace" means in a practical perspective.

I am not advocating war dude, I am just stating the reality that NK will never be peaceful and that only leaves one other option.

That's something you can't say with absolute certainty.

Sure I can, why cant you?

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

So North Korea is still building WMDs. Well it makes perfect sense for trump to threaten to go to war with IRAN.

America's REAL enemies are North Korea, Russia and Saudi Arabia. And who are trump's allies now? Yep North Korea, Russia and Saudi Arabia.

It's those Germans, French and Canadians we should be worried about.

You make a good point there.

 

[ElChupacabra]

Kim will not honor any agreement, he will lie and claim to but he wont.

Again, that's the likely scenario but we don't know that conclusively.

Seriously are you that dense? Every heard of South Korea and a united Korea? Come on your question was stupid.

Dense? No, just asking for clarification to your vague response. You didn't provide an alternative solution, and I'm not a mind reader, so you either provide details or you will get questions to explain further.

I am not advocating war dude, I am just stating the reality that NK will never be peaceful and that only leaves one other option.

So then what are you advocating? If your position is NK will never be peaceful and that leaves one other option, is that option the Easter Bunny show up and magically making them peaceful?

Sure I can, why cant you?

Well you "can" say it, much like I can say with absolute certainty Santa Claus exists; whether the statement is correct is another issue.

 

[sangha]

That's easy; cut off his personal supply line to the west's finest amenities.

How do you propose we get that done?

 

[ttwtt78640]

How do propose we get that done?

By saying "pretty please" to those that continue to do business with DPRK, of course.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

I don't see how it is our place to decide what they are allowed to have as they are a sovereign nation and they have yet to demonstrate that they will terrorize anyone. Once another country surpasses us and decides our military and nuke cache is too large, do you really think we are going to submit to their wishes? This idea the world shoukld bow down to US power is ridiculous, we won't be the #1 power forever and the rest of the world is going to remember how we abused our role and influence. I think it would be wise to remember that before making demands of other nations.

Also, it is not his mercy I place my trust in. It is his will to stay in power that I have faith in. The only countries I worry about getting a nuke are places like Iran as they would be more likely to use a nuke with little to no care of retribution. I have little doubt that when Iran gets a nuke it will find it's way to Isreal.

Lol I never said go in alone. Hell I actually didnt even say to go in at all. I am just pointing out that the longer that the world waits, the worse the problem will become.

I am also not naive enough to try align my reasoning to a leader like Kim. You believe that Kim wants to stay in power; have you asked him or is that just your assumption? I know conventional wisdom would dictate that indeed he wants to remain in power, but that same wisdom would also dictate many other things that I bet do not apply to someone like Kim. Conventional wisdom does not even work for Trump, and we know much more about him than Kim. So banking on your belief that Kim would not do certain things because he wants to stay in power is ignorant and could lead to disaster for the world. And especially those within reach, which will increase the more that NK expands its long range missile capability.

Nobody but idiots want war. I do not want war; I would rather not have the world go to war with NK. The problem is that history shows that NK is not a friendly nation. Their sovereignty matters as much as Nazi Germany sovereignty mattered to the allied forces. ANd make no mistake threatening to use nukes to annihilate other nations is terrorizing. The US on the other hand has never threatened to annihilate another nation with their nukes. We do not use our nukes to threaten other nations. Of course our nukes are a threat to other nations just because they exist. But that isnt the topic.

 

[Nap]

Lol I never said go in alone. Hell I actually didnt even say to go in at all. I am just pointing out that the longer that the world waits, the worse the problem will become.

I am also not naive enough to try align my reasoning to a leader like Kim. You believe that Kim wants to stay in power; have you asked him or is that just your assumption? I know conventional wisdom would dictate that indeed he wants to remain in power, but that same wisdom would also dictate many other things that I bet do not apply to someone like Kim. Conventional wisdom does not even work for Trump, and we know much more about him than Kim. So banking on your belief that Kim would not do certain things because he wants to stay in power is ignorant and could lead to disaster for the world. And especially those within reach, which will increase the more that NK expands its long range missile capability.

Nobody but idiots want war. I do not want war; I would rather not have the world go to war with NK. The problem is that history shows that NK is not a friendly nation. Their sovereignty matters as much as Nazi Germany sovereignty mattered to the allied forces. ANd make no mistake threatening to use nukes to annihilate other nations is terrorizing. The US on the other hand has never threatened to annihilate another nation with their nukes. We do not use our nukes to threaten other nations. Of course our nukes are a threat to other nations just because they exist. But that isnt the topic.

How can you say you don't want war when you previously advocated for "air strikes" in this thread? Unless your name is Obama, dropping bombs on other nations is an act of war........

As far as the US not threatening anyone with our nukes, Japan would beg to differ. We warned them of our capabilities and then made good on that threat. There is also the Cold War to remember which was essentially a nuclear standoff.

 

[MTAtech]

(Pyongyang is also still producing nuclear weapons, according to researchers studying satellite images, casting a new shadow over disarmament talks)
By Andrew Jeong
Dec. 6, 2018 2:12 a.m. ET
https://www.wsj.com/articles/north-korea-expands-long-range-missile-base-analysts-say-1544080319

My question is whatever happened to Trump's claim that NK is falling into line and that America is safe now?
...

Like Swampy's deal with China to end the tariffs, it was all hype and no substance.

What would anyone expect? This guy is a neophyte and was conned by Kim, just as the liberals said he would be conned.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

Again, that's the likely scenario but we don't know that conclusively.

Acxtually we already know given that he is expanding long range missile sites as we speak.

Dense? No, just asking for clarification to your vague response. You didn't provide an alternative solution, and I'm not a mind reader, so you either provide details or you will get questions to explain further.

I do not write policy or plans on how to do military activity. Not too mention that, that is not my argument so I feel no need to provide you with crap I was asserting.

So then what are you advocating? If your position is NK will never be peaceful and that leaves one other option, is that option the Easter Bunny show up and magically making them peaceful?

I am not really advocating anything, I am pointing out that after 50 years the peaceful route did not stop NK from denuclearizing. Where will this be in another 50 years? If we analyze NK through the last 50 years we can see a pattern. Up to this point NK lacked the ability to attack very far from its borders. Their hands were tied; they slipped the knot and we stood by and entertained their wishes. If I was in South Korea I would be very worried right now. Eventually that worry will be everyone within range. NK is a hostile player and it is very possible that NK might nuke someone for whatever screwed up reason that they have. meanwhile we sit here and pretend that negotiating with Nk will do something magical to take that reality away.

Well you "can" say it, much like I can say with absolute certainty Santa Claus exists; whether the statement is correct is another issue.

Sure and we could have negotiated with Imperial Japan too right?

 

[ElChupacabra]

Acxtually we already know given that he is expanding long range missile sites as we speak.






I do not write policy or plans on how to do military activity. Not too mention that, that is not my argument so I feel no need to provide you with crap I was asserting.




I am not really advocating anything, I am pointing out that after 50 years the peaceful route did not stop NK from denuclearizing. Where will this be in another 50 years? If we analyze NK through the last 50 years we can see a pattern. Up to this point NK lacked the ability to attack very far from its borders. Their hands were tied; they slipped the knot and we stood by and entertained their wishes. If I was in South Korea I would be very worried right now. Eventually that worry will be everyone within range. NK is a hostile player and it is very possible that NK might nuke someone for whatever screwed up reason that they have. meanwhile we sit here and pretend that negotiating with Nk will do something magical to take that reality away.


Sure and we could have negotiated with Imperial Japan too right?

Ok, so you're just stating the obvious and don't want to discuss potential solutions or an opinion on how to proceed. Thanks for the news flash.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

How can you say you don't want war when you previously advocated for "air strikes" in this thread? Unless your name is Obama, dropping bombs on other nations is an act of war........

As far as the US not threatening anyone with our nukes, Japan would beg to differ. We warned them of our capabilities and then made good on that threat. There is also the Cold War to remember which was essentially a nuclear standoff.

I do not want any war; only screwed up people actually want war. And in a perfect world there would be no need for war. But that is fantasy; the world is not perfect. And it seems that NK wants war.


Citing the use of nukes in Japan and the cold war is misleading. We did not say anything like this then or in the cold war. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...o-reduce-us-and-south-korea-to-flames-and-ash

What you did is called false equivalency. And I already mentioned that having nukes can be taken as a threat to other nations. But there is a big difference between implied threat and what North Korea does on a regular basis. Before we could just laugh at them for their silly threats, but now not so much. You have to take those threats serious when they can launch nukes with long range missiles.

Here is a question?

If North Korea uses a nuke on another nation who will they blame (beside obviously NK)?

What would happen is that we would be kicking ourselves for not doing something about the threat. Much like how we kicked ourselves for not stopping the threat that lead to Pearl Harbor or 9/11. There are warning signs here we should listen to them for a change.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

Ok, so you're just stating the obvious and don't want to discuss potential solutions or an opinion on how to proceed. Thanks for the news flash.

Finally you understand my point. Sort of...

Dismiss it if you want I do not care. But there will be no peace on Korean peninsula as long as Kim and his government exist. You are diluting yourself if you believe that peace negotiations will ever do anything but help North Korea become yet a bigger problem. Air strike could set their Nuclear ambitions back decades. Whether those strikes would lead to war is another topic. Their many scenarios where it would indeed force Kim to respond, but I would imagine those airstrikes would not be limited to just missile bases. And you have to remember that a conscripted army is more likely to turn tail and run. But I would suggest that we wait for such things until after we solve this President problem that we have right now. I could see Trump really screwing this up bad, more than he already has.

 

[Nap]

I do not want any war; only screwed up people actually want war. And in a perfect world there would be no need for war. But that is fantasy; the world is not perfect. And it seems that NK wants war.


Citing the use of nukes in Japan and the cold war is misleading. We did not say anything like this then or in the cold war. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...o-reduce-us-and-south-korea-to-flames-and-ash

What you did is called false equivalency. And I already mentioned that having nukes can be taken as a threat to other nations. But there is a big difference between implied threat and what North Korea does on a regular basis. Before we could just laugh at them for their silly threats, but now not so much. You have to take those threats serious when they can launch nukes with long range missiles.

Here is a question?

If North Korea uses a nuke on another nation who will they blame (beside obviously NK)?

What would happen is that we would be kicking ourselves for not doing something about the threat. Much like how we kicked ourselves for not stopping the threat that lead to Pearl Harbor or 9/11. There are warning signs here we should listen to them for a change.

You say you do not want war, but literally called for air strikes on a foriegn nation..... so which is it?

 

[ElChupacabra]

Finally you understand my point. Sort of...

Dismiss it if you want I do not care. But there will be no peace on Korean peninsula as long as Kim and his government exist. You are diluting yourself if you believe that peace negotiations will ever do anything but help North Korea become yet a bigger problem. Air strike could set their Nuclear ambitions back decades. Whether those strikes would lead to war is another topic. Their many scenarios where it would indeed force Kim to respond, but I would imagine those airstrikes would not be limited to just missile bases. And you have to remember that a conscripted army is more likely to turn tail and run. But I would suggest that we wait for such things until after we solve this President problem that we have right now. I could see Trump really screwing this up bad, more than he already has.

I am not deluding myself because what I was discussing what what a diplomatic option could look like, and it's something the South Koreans have been actively pursuing because they don't want war either. Your opinion is the minority one because no one is acting on taking that course of action yet, nor has any country planned air strikes in the time North Korea has been building its long range missiles. I wouldn't bet on their conscripted army turning tail and running either, and betting on that with soldiers' lives isn't something that should be taken lightly.