No terrorist training camps in Iraq during Saddam's rule?

[taxpayer]

Bushs own commish reported that Iraq and Saddam and NOTHING to do with 911 or any terrorist activitys against the U.S.
So why are we there?
But now that we are there we should stay and help them even though they don't want us there.
Problem is that when ever we leave they will start killing each other. So maybe it doesn't really matter when we leave.

 

[nefarious_plot]

This mek things is ridiculous everything on those sites you posted have americans calling them fine people. Saddam didnt need to hire some Group run by women for the iran Iraq war he was winning it.

Stalinst Secualr Dicatorship. Perhpas people need to understnad what that means first.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

US Air Force's Air University

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/army/guidterr/app_a.pdf
Groups Physically Based In [USCENTCOM's] AOR

Mujahedin-e Khalq Organization (MEK or MKO), a.k.a.: National Liberation Army of Iran (NLA), People’s Mujahidin of Iran (PMOI), National Council of Resistance (NCR), National Council of Resistance of Iran (NCRI), Muslim Iranian Student’s Society, (Iraq)*
​

Strength

Several thousand
​

Anti-U.S. Activity

Yes
​

∗Groups marked with an asterisk have conducted operations in one or more areas against U.S. targets.
​

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/fbi/mueller021103.htm

We are also concerned about terrorist organizations with direct ties to Iraq—such as the Iranian dissident group, Mujahidin-e Khalq, and the Palestinian Abu Nidal Organization.

* Groups like the Abu Nidal Organization may target US entities overseas but probably lack the military infrastructure to conduct organized terrorist attacks on US soil. A notable exception is the Mujahedin-e Khalq, which has a US presence and proven operational capability overseas and which cooperates with Baghdad.
​

National Defense University

http://www.ndu.edu/library/n3/SSP-92-016.pdf

Domestic politics were partly responsible for the Iranians' April 4, 1992 air raid against a rebel Iranian (mujahedin-e khalq) base in Iraq. In engaging in the strike, Iran conducted the most serious military action against Iraq since the Iran/Iraq War fighting ended in 1988. Commenting on the attack four days later,an Iranian Air Force Commander indicated that the raid was in retaliation for mujahedin attacks in Western Iran aimed at "disrupting the elections" for the Consultative Assembly.
​

Army War College

http://www.carlisle.army.mil/ssi/pubs/1999/tranthrt/tranthrt.pdf

Mujahedin-e Khalq Organization (MEK or MKO) a.k.a. The National Liberation Army of Iran (NLA, the militant wing of the MEK), the People’s Mujahedin of Iran (PMOI), Muslim Iranian Student’s Society (front organization used to garner financial support)

Strength: Several thousand fighters based in Iraq with an extensive overseas support structure.

Location/Area of Operation: In the 1980s the MEK’s leaders were forced by Iranian security forces to flee to France. Most resettled in Iraq by 1987.

External Aid: Beyond support from Iraq...
​

http://carlisle-www.army.mil/usawc/Parameters/01winter/jalali.htm

Iran's April 2001 massive missile attack on bases of the Baghdad-backed Iranian armed opposition (Mojahedin-e Khalq) in Iraq surprised its Gulf neighbors.
​

 

[nefarious_plot]

According to the Blog site you posted earlier The US congressmen were attending these peoples meetings and the LT Col speaking didnt belive they were terrosits. SO now the Austrialins know better then the US?

 

[Simon W. Moon]

This mek things is ridiculous everything on those sites you posted have americans calling them fine people.

If by "everything on those sites you posted" you mean the two on my site and the ones that're listed on the MeK's site then you could be right. However, the MeK uses many fron groups and it's been the case numerous times that politicians have had to retract their support once they found out who they were actually giving it too.
None of this changes the fact that this group is a terrorist group.

Saddam didnt need to hire some Group run by women for the iran Iraq war he was winning it.

Your particular assessment of the Iran Iraq war has no bearing on what happened.

Stalinst Secualr Dicatorship. Perhpas people need to understnad what that means first.

Doesn't really have any impact on the facts.

 

[nefarious_plot]

Stalinsst Secualr Dicatator is the facts. This Group is concrened with Iran by there own admission. There own site talks about attacks they have made on Iranina military. There site nowhere mentions Iraq. If they are Anti-usa..so what? Theres alot of countries and people like that. It stil doesnt equate with hussien whom had no use for islamic fundemntalism. As he was a STALINIST.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Also this guy Col. Cantrel or whatever states he wants to use them and that he doesnt list them as terrorists at all.

Quote:"Cantwell made a point of saying that he saw no evidence that the NLA presented a threat to US forces and that even though he had not asked to see the evidence that NLA members were terrorists, he had not seen any evidence that NLA members were terrorists. Lt Col Cantwell currently works as a consultant for an unspecified private firm"

This is from YOUR site. Your supposed evidence refutes your own assertions.

Hogwash. Cantwell did not see what he did not look for. It doesn't mean anything other than what Cantwell says about the Mek is not fully informed

This mek is just some subvirse group against Iran they have nothing at all to do with Iraq.

Other than being armed, provisioned and funded by Saddam, being based there and helping Iraqi forces in crackdowns on Kurds and such you're about right.

You sites also state this group is led by 23 WOMEN. hardly fundementalist islam. your stie also states a Dude in the Employment of FOX NEWS and MEMBERS OF CONGRESSS was attending this thing. LMAO..these people are terroists? Sounds more like a lobbist diner party for the GOP.

Designation of National Council of Resistance and National Council of Resistance of Iran under Executive Order 13224
Tom Casey, Acting Spokesman | Press Statement Released on August 15, 2003
U.S. Department of State

The Secretary of State has amended the designation, under Executive Order 13224 on terrorist financing, of the Mujahedin-e Khalq, known as the MEK, to add its aliases National Council of Resistance (NCR) and National Council of Resistance of Iran (NCRI). That Executive Order blocks the assets of organizations and individuals linked to terrorism. The decision also clarifies that the designation includes the U.S. representative office of NCRI and all its other offices worldwide, and that the designation of the People’s Mujahedin of Iran (“PMOI”) as an alias of the MEK includes the PMOI’s U.S. representative office and all other offices worldwide.
​

LOL So what you are agreeing with the accusations that bush is in cohoots with these people?

There are elemenst w/in team Bush that want to use the MeK in the same manner as the INC was used. Do you even read what I post? I've said this more than once.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

According to the Blog site you posted earlier The US congressmen were attending these peoples meetings and the LT Col speaking didnt belive they were terrosits. SO now the Austrialins know better then the US?

If you were willing to accept the word of Congressmen and randmo military personell as proof, I wish you would have said so earlier. I gotth eimpression that you'd only accept info coming from military academies.

Also, if you'd care to take a look, http://www.au.af.mil is the USAF's site.

 

[nefarious_plot]

The Congress was jsut hanging around with terroists for fun. Whatever.


That guy was your proof they were terroists cause he was Camp Asharf. but the site said he liked them. Now the story changes. Its still doesnt show anytihng about a mand whom always dispaisaed the isalmic fundies ..a threat to his power supporting the. Hussien was not stupid. he would not put guns in the hands of people that wanted to shoot him. The connection has been abandoned even by the Bush admin. Cuase they could enver make one. Cause it never existed.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

There site nowhere mentions Iraq.

I've already showed you more than one place on their site it says they were in Iraq. Are you just refusing to look or what?

 

[Simon W. Moon]

That guy was your proof they were terroists cause he was Camp Asharf.

You are saying something that is not true here.
I said he was proof they were in Iraq.
Please, if you can show where I said that Cantwell was proof that the MeK were terrorists.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Please, show where someone besides yourself denies that the MeK are and were in Iraq.

 

[icantoofly]

Bushs own commish reported that Iraq and Saddam and NOTHING to do with 911 or any terrorist activitys against the U.S.

So why are we there?

The night of 9/20, the President Bush broadcast to the nation and to a joint session of the Congress that: our enemy is a radical network of terrorists, and every government that supports them; that it is civilization’s fight to punish this radical network; and that we ask every nation to join us in this fight.

The al Qaeda aligned, Ansar al Islam, was formed in northern Iraq in December 2001 and included some of those fleeing the US, October 20, 2001, invasion of Afghanistan. At the beginning of the US March 20, 2003, invasion of Iraq, the al Qaeda aligned, Ansar al Islam, controlled about a dozen villages and a range of peaks in northern Iraq on the Iranian border.

September 11, 2001: This date is 5 years, 3 months, and 23 days after Bin Laden left Sudan for Afghanistan and established al Qaeda training bases in Afghanistan

Mach 20, 2003: The US invasion of Iraq was only 1 year, 5 months after al Qaeda first set up training camps in Iraq. If we had waited 5 years, 3 months, and 23 days before invading Iraq like we waited before invading Afghanistan, it is very probable that additional “9/11s” would have occurred in the meantime.


But now that we are there we should stay and help them even though they don't want us there.

Who is the "they" that doesn't want us there?

Problem is that when ever we leave they will start killing each other. So maybe it doesn't really matter when we leave.

Whether they will start killing each other or not, and at what rate (currently about 30 per day), after we leave depends on how effective the Iraqi government is when we leave.

There's more to this than you'll find in the TOMNOM (i.e.,The Oxy-Moron News Opinion Media)

 

[nefarious_plot]

In iraq now. Not before invasion if ever. and that doesnt link Hussien to islamic fundemntalism. Thats the assertions made to justify war. and it was just untrue. The first site you shuld listed these people as marxist anyway. Again not a big favoraite of the Mullahs. Also led by women. defintly not a big hit in the Islamic community.

 

[icantoofly]

I have questions about what you posted here.

In iraq now. Not before invasion if ever.

Osama in Iraq two months after 9/11 and the Afghanistan invasion and 1 year 3 months before Iraq invasion.

and that doesnt link Hussien to islamic fundemntalism.

What is "islamic fundemntalism?" Is that the same thing I'm calling malignancy, or others are calling terrorists?

Thats the assertions made to justify war. and it was just untrue.

I disagree! The following are the assertions used to justify the Iraq war as well as the Afghanistan war:
The night of 9/11, the President broadcast to the nation that we will not distinguish between terrorists and those who harbor them.

The night of 9/20, the President Bush broadcast to the nation and to a joint session of the Congress that: our enemy is a radical network of terrorists, and every government that supports them; that it is civilization’s fight to punish this radical network; and that we ask every nation to join us in this fight.

On 10/25, the pre-9/11 draft presidential directive on al Qaeda evolved into a new directive, National Security Presidential Directive 9, now titled "Defeating the Terrorist Threat to the United States." The directive would now extend to a global war on terrorism, not just on al Qaeda. It also incorporated the President's determination not to distinguish between terrorists and those who harbor them. It included a determination to use military force if necessary to end al Qaeda's sanctuary in Afghanistan. The new directive -- formally signed on October 25, after the fighting in Afghanistan had already begun -- included new material followed by annexes discussing each targeted terrorist group. The old draft directive on al Qaeda became, in effect, the first annex. The United States would strive to eliminate all terrorist networks, dry up their financial support, and prevent them from acquiring weapons of mass destruction. The goal was the "elimination of terrorism as a threat to our way of life."

The first site you shuld listed these people as marxist anyway. Again not a big favoraite of the Mullahs. Also led by women. defintly not a big hit in the Islamic community.

:shock: Which of these web sites I listed do you believe is marxist and how do you know that?

Osama Bin Laden "Declaration of War Against the Americans Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Places"-1996;
and,
Osama Bin Laden: Text of Fatwah Urging Jihad Against Americans-1998
http://www.mideastweb.org/osambinladen1.htm
[scroll down to find them both]

Al-Qaida Statement Warning Muslims Against Associating With The Crusaders And Idols; Translation By JUS; Jun 09, 2004
Al-Qaida Organization of the Arab Gulf; 19 Rabbi Al-Akhir 1425
http://www.mail-archive.com/tumpat@yahoogroups.com/msg00035.html

9-11 Commission, 9/20/2004
www.9-11commission.gov/report/index.htm

Charles Duelfer's Report, 30 September 2004
www.cia.gov/cia/reports/iraq_wmd_2004/Comp_Report_Key_Findings.pdf

Secretary of State, Colin Powell’s speech to UN, 2/5/2003,
"sinister nexus"
http://www.state.gov/secretary/former/powell/remarks/2003/17300.htm

"American Soldier," by General Tommy Franks, 7/1/2004
"10" Regan Books, An Imprint of HarperCollins Publishers

The Encyclopedia Britannica
Iraq
www.britannica.com

Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Islamic Movement in Kurdistan
http://en.wikipedia.org

Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Terrorist Incidents
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents#1996

 

[Simon W. Moon]

In iraq now. Not before invasion if ever.

Could please show me someone else, anyone else, who thinks like you do that there's a huge conspiratorial hoax to make people believe that the Mek has been in Iraq since the late eighties.
In all my research, you are the solitary voice who has aid that the MeK was not in iraq since then. All you've offered to back it up is your say-so.

and that doesnt link Hussien to islamic fundemntalism. Thats the assertions made to justify war. and it was just untrue. The first site you shuld listed these people as marxist anyway. Again not a big favoraite of the Mullahs. Also led by women. defintly not a big hit in the Islamic community.

Ummm, so? They are a terrorist organization that was harbored, abetted and supported by Saddam.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

I have questions about what you posted here.

If you wouldn't put your words inside someone else's quote box, it'd be easier for folks to respond to you.

Osama in Iraq two months after 9/11 and the Afghanistan invasion and 1 year 3 months before Iraq invasion.

I'd like to see your sources for these assertions.

 

[nefarious_plot]

Could please show me someone else, anyone else, who thinks like you do that there's a huge conspiratorial hoax to make people believe that the Mek has been in Iraq since the late eighties.
In all my research, you are the solitary voice who has aid that the MeK was not in iraq since then. All you've offered to back it up is your say-so.

now they werent. Hussien is not there., These people were not there when he was. NBo terrosists were.

 

[nefarious_plot]

Osma has never ben in Iraq. Who makes that nonesence up. This stuff is not credible in anyway.The assertiosn get more and more ludicris. Just grapbbing any goofy thing of the net and hurling on this site in bulk. bit it sitll shows nothing. These websites are a dime and a dozen. None of it prooves the un refutable facts of a Hussien regime that was Stalinst and agressive to all fundmentalist movemnts everywhere. To say he back up Fundies is like saying the Americans sold Shermans to the SS. It's absurd.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

now they werent. Hussien is not there., These people were not there when he was. NBo terrosists were.

So that's it then.

We can accept the word of numerous intel agencies from around the world, various scholars, people who've been there, the MeK themselves, the US military, the US State Dept, the CIA and every member organization of the American Intelligence Community or the word of a single anonymous internet poster.

Decisions, decisions, decisions.

 

[taxpayer]

There's more to this than you'll find in the TOMNOM (i.e.,The Oxy-Moron News Opinion Media)

I see! Then why did Bush say to Americans and the whole world that Iraq had WMD and was an imminent threat to the U.S.A. and we had to go into Iraq NOW?

BTW! I said that Bushs own commish report said that Saddam and Iraq had nothing to do with 911 or any terrorist activitys against the U.S.
You seem a little confused.

You said that Bush said " Our enemy is a radical network of terrorists and every country that supports them."
Hummm! Then why didn't Bush invade Saudi Arabia before Iraq? Everyone knows that they support the terrorist and that 17 of the 19 911 terrorists hijackers were from Saudia Arabia. Bush even said that Osama BIN LADEN was responsible for 911.
JUST A THOUGHT! I wonder if the Bin Ladens being BEST FRIENDS with the Bushs had anything to do with Bushs not invading S.A.? After all, the Bin Ladens were vacationing on Bushs ranch when we got hit and Bush allowed them to fly out on the only plane that was allowed to fly on 912 the day after 911.

BTW: 10-1 you sadly get your news from FOX.
And oxy-moron? That would be your other news source, Rush, right?

 

[kal-el]

I see! Then why did Bush say to Americans and the whole world that Iraq had WMD and was an imminent threat to the U.S.A. and we had to go into Iraq NOW?

BTW! I said that Bushs own commish report said that Saddam and Iraq had nothing to do with 911 or any terrorist activitys against the U.S.
You seem a little confused.

You said that Bush said " Our enemy is a radical network of terrorists and every country that supports them."
Hummm! Then why didn't Bush invade Saudi Arabia before Iraq? Everyone knows that they support the terrorist and that 17 of the 19 911 terrorists hijackers were from Saudia Arabia. Bush even said that Osama BIN LADEN was responsible for 911.
JUST A THOUGHT! I wonder if the Bin Ladens being BEST FRIENDS with the Bushs had anything to do with Bushs not invading S.A.? After all, the Bin Ladens were vacationing on Bushs ranch when we got hit and Bush allowed them to fly out on the only plane that was allowed to fly on 912 the day after 911.

BTW: 10-1 you sadly get your news from FOX.
And oxy-moron? That would be your other news source, Rush, right?

That was a good post, I just want to add something. "Saddam had WMDs and used them" This is blantant slander! I find it funny that W never said that right after learning that Iraq had used chemical weapons against the kurds, the Reagan administration had blocked a Senate resolution imposing sanctions on Iraq, and his dad's administration gave Saddam $1.2 billion in financial credits. And he failed to mention that it was the US that covered up Saddam's gas episode on the kurds by sayingIran was responsible. And while knowing Iraq was using chemical weapons against Iran, the US gave Iraq satelitte intelligence to help them target Iranians. Or that we supplied Iraq with anthrax, and Rummy was Reagan's "envoy" to get buddy-buddy with Saddam in 1983.

 

[icantoofly]

If you wouldn't put your words inside someone else's quote box, it'd be easier for folks to respond to you.

I'd like to see your sources for these assertions.

"If you wouldn't put your words inside someone else's quote box, it'd be easier for folks to respond to you."

Sorry about that. I thought it would help associate my responses to your specific statements. I'll try to accomplish that this way instead.

"I'd like to see your sources for these assertions."

Here is my complete list of sources:

1. Osama Bin Laden "Declaration of War Against the Americans Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Places"-1996;
and,
Osama Bin Laden: Text of Fatwah Urging Jihad Against Americans-1998
http://www.mideastweb.org/osambinladen1.htm
[scroll down to find them both]

2. Al-Qaida Statement Warning Muslims Against Associating With The Crusaders And Idols; Translation By JUS; Jun 09, 2004
Al-Qaida Organization of the Arab Gulf; 19 Rabbi Al-Akhir 1425
http://www.mail-archive.com/tumpat@yahoogroups.com/msg00035.html

3. 9-11 Commission, 9/20/2004
www.9-11commission.gov/report/index.htm

4. Charles Duelfer's Report, 30 September 2004
www.cia.gov/cia/reports/iraq_wmd_2004/Comp_Report_Key_Findings.pdf

5. Secretary of State, Colin Powell’s speech to UN, 2/5/2003,
"sinister nexus"
http://www.state.gov/secretary/former/powell/remarks/2003/17300.htm

6. "American Soldier," by General Tommy Franks, 7/1/2004
"10" Regan Books, An Imprint of HarperCollins Publishers

7. The Encyclopedia Britannica
Iraq
www.britannica.com

8. Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Islamic Movement in Kurdistan
http://en.wikipedia.org

9. Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Terrorist Incidents
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents#1996

 

[icantoofly]

... I'd like to see your sources for these assertions.

Source 3. above is my source for President Bush's statements the nights of 9/11/2001 and 9/20/2001, and for his directive of 10/25/2001.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Here is my complete list of sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents#1996

Which ones applies to these?

Originally Posted by icantoofly
Osama in Iraq two months after 9/11 and the Afghanistan invasion and 1 year 3 months before Iraq invasion.
​