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No terrorist training camps in Iraq during Saddam's rule?

Powerbuilt

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Is it true that Saddam was a secular meglomaniac, that would crush any kind of Islamic fundamental upraising... and that he ruled with a military not terrorists- those are the other (Islamic-ruled) countries in the region.

Just heard this.

There were no terrorist training camps under Saddam's rule?

Discuss.
 

Powerbuilt

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Tetracide said:
I'm going to pull a Billy, and just post a picture.

36 American's killed in 6 degrees of seperation from saddam, and you think it's worth wasting 10s of thousands of Iraqis another 2000 Americans and counting and $300 Billion in my tax dollars? **** you.
 

cherokee

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Right or wrong is a mute point right now in Iraq. Dont you think?
The question is are we going to allow the people to build a better place or do we pull out and allow the country to fall into the vermin hands called the insurgency?

This time we have to clean up our mess or our kids and grandkids will be paying the price.
 

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Powerbuilt said:
36 American's killed in 6 degrees of seperation from saddam, and you think it's worth wasting 10s of thousands of Iraqis another 2000 Americans and counting and $300 Billion in my tax dollars? **** you.


well said, very good point
 

Kelzie

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Powerbuilt said:
36 American's killed in 6 degrees of seperation from saddam, and you think it's worth wasting 10s of thousands of Iraqis another 2000 Americans and counting and $300 Billion in my tax dollars? **** you.
[mod gaval]

:smash:

This kind of language is not appropriate for the debate forums. Please go to the basement next time.

Thanks,
The Vegan Mod.

[/mod gaval]
 

Powerbuilt

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Kelzie said:
[mod gaval]

:smash:

This kind of language is not appropriate for the debate forums. Please go to the basement next time.

Thanks,
The Vegan Mod.

[/mod gaval]
You're such a wimp.

Grab your ******* uterous, and stop being scared of the "F" word.
 
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Thre were none. Stalinist Secular Dictatorship. War supporters refuse to acknowledge 20+ years of history where every Administration has noted hussien as that. Where everything Hussien ever did indicated his hatred for the fundementalists. Where never once had any terrorists activity ever occured. Whre a war fought for years against the most radical and largest of fundimentalists regimes in Iran. Where Shiite islmic radicals in the south consistantly rebelled. Tariq Aziz a right hand man of hussiesn was CHRISTIAN. 80,000 Iraq Xtians just bailed out of the country cause of the rise of Islamic fanatics after the US invasion.

The problem is the John Wane syndrom. Bin Laden bad..hussien bad...must be the same thing. WRONG!. They are polar opposties regardless of there mutual disdian for the US. A large part of the planet cant stand America and they arent all in cooperation with each other.



Anything trumped up to justify this war is pathetic and easily rebuked. gobs of hypocritcal and manipulated dribvile coming from right winged home made websites and an admin busted lying for years will never disprove the history and reality of Hussiens regime.
 

mustafa

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Powerbuilt said:
You're such a wimp.

Grab your ******* uterous, and stop being scared of the "F" word.
:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

I agree with u .. she kinda overreacted but u also crossed the line with usterous thing ...
 

icantoofly

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nefarious_plot said:
... Anything trumped up to justify this war is pathetic and easily rebuked. gobs of hypocritcal and manipulated dribvile coming from right winged home made websites and an admin busted lying for years will never disprove the history and reality of Hussiens regime.
WHY WE HAD TO INVADE IRAQ

the non-partisan 9/11 Commission said:
May 19,1996: Bin Laden leaves Sudan – after escaping at least one assassination attempt -- significantly weakened despite his ambitious organization skills, and returns to Afghanistan where he establishes al Qaeda training bases.
al Qaeda in these excerpts from their fatwahs said:

[1996 fatwah excerpts]
Our youths believe in paradise after death. They believe that taking part in fighting will not bring their day nearer; and staying behind will not postpone their day either.

These youths believe in what has been told by Allah and His messenger (Allah's Blessings and Salutations may be on him) about the greatness of the reward for the Mujahideen and Martyrs; Allah, the most exalted said: {and -so far- those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will by no means allow their deeds to perish. He will guide them and improve their condition. and cause them to enter the garden -paradise- which He has made known to them}. (Muhammad; 47:4-6). Allah the Exalted also said: {and do not speak of those who are slain in Allah's way as dead; nay -they are- alive, but you do not perceive} (Bagarah; 2:154).

[1998 fatwah excerpt]
I have been sent with the sword between my hands to ensure that no one but Allah is worshipped.
September 11, 2001: This date is 5 years, 3 months, and 23 days after Bin Laden left Sudan for Afghanistan and established al Qaeda training bases in Afghanistan.

the non-partisan 9/11 Commission said:
The attacks on September 11 kill almost 3,000 in a series of hijacked airliner crashes into two U.S. landmarks: the World Trade Center in New York City, New York, and The Pentagon in Arlington, Virginia. A fourth plane crashes in Somerset County, Pennsylvania.

The night of 9/11, the President broadcast to the nation that we will not distinguish between terrorists and those who harbor them.

The night of 9/20, the President Bush broadcast to the nation and to a joint session of the Congress that: our enemy is a radical network of terrorists, and every government that supports them; that it is civilization’s fight to punish this radical network; and that we ask every nation to join us in this fight.

On 10/25, the pre-9/11 draft presidential directive on al Qaeda evolved into a new directive, National Security Presidential Directive 9, now titled "Defeating the Terrorist Threat to the United States." The directive would now extend to a global war on terrorism, not just on al Qaeda. It also incorporated the President's determination not to distinguish between terrorists and those who harbor them. It included a determination to use military force if necessary to end al Qaeda's sanctuary in Afghanistan. The new directive -- formally signed on October 25, after the fighting in Afghanistan had already begun -- included new material followed by annexes discussing each targeted terrorist group. The old draft directive on al Qaeda became, in effect, the first annex. The United States would strive to eliminate all terrorist networks, dry up their financial support, and prevent them from acquiring weapons of mass destruction. The goal was the "elimination of terrorism as a threat to our way of life."
in these excerpts said:

The al Qaeda aligned, Ansar al Islam, was formed in northern Iraq in December 2001 and included some of those fleeing the US, October 20, 2001, invasion of Afghanistan . At the beginning of the US March 20, 2003, invasion of Iraq, the al Qaeda aligned, Ansar al Islam, controlled about a dozen villages and a range of peaks in northern Iraq on the Iranian border.

When the US invaded Iraq, it attacked the al Qaeda aligned, Ansar al Islam, training camps in northern Iraq, and this organization's leaders retreated to neighboring countries. When the war in the north settled down, the militants returned to Iraq to fight against the occupying American forces.
Note: the US invasion of Iraq was only 1 year, 5 months after al Qaeda first set up training camps in Iraq. If we had waited 5 years, 3 months, and 23 days before invading Iraq like we waited before invading Afghanistan, it is very probable that additional “9/11s” would have occurred in the meantime.

al Qaeda in an excerpt from their 2004 fatwah said:

No Muslim should risk his life as he may inadvertently be killed if he associates with the Crusaders, whom we have no choice but to kill.
in an excerpt from their booklet said:
… eight reasons for global jihad. These include the restoration of Islamic sovereignty to all lands where Muslims were once ascendant, including Spain, "Bulgaria, Hungary, Cyprus, Sicily, Ethiopia, Russian Turkistan and Chinese Turkistan. . . Even parts of France reaching 90 kilometers outside Paris."
Al Qaeda and all other persons who mass murder civilians, or are accomplices of persons who mass murder civilians, are an extreme danger to the security of humanity in general, and to the security of Iraqis and Americans in particular. For this reason all such persons, whom I call malignancy, must be exterminated. So, it was necessary to invade Iraq in order to exterminate malignancy from Iraq, just as it was necessary to invade Afghanistan in order to exterminate malignancy from Afghanistan.

While we have so far failed to exterminate malignancyin both Iraq and Afghanistan, we must nonetheless persevere until we learn how and do exterminate it. The deadly consequences to us all of failure to do so are intolerable!
 
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Tumped up nonesence...Fatwah? Uhh yeah. Something written Dick Cheneys cocktail napkin....what rubbihsh. Iraqis operating in the north in the mid 90's were FIGHTING!!!! HUSSIEN!! By trying to assert these absurd notions to people your ultimately stating Bush senior was a liar.

Stalinst Secualr Dicatorship. There is no connnection. Hussiens has always fought funides and never had any use for them in any manner of cooperation.


I dont care if you put a bible capther and verse ahead of those trumped documents there still completely false.

Fatwah thats the funniest one yet though.
 

icantoofly

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nefarious_plot said:
Tumped up nonesence...Fatwah? Uhh yeah. ...ahead of those trumped documents there still completely false.
...
Fatwah thats the funniest one yet though.
It's really terrible how truth keeps sticking its dawgone nose into your false beliefs. I apologize for my part in fomenting its intrusion.

As you were!
 

Kelzie

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Powerbuilt said:
You're such a wimp.

Grab your ******* uterous, and stop being scared of the "F" word.
[mod mode]

Excuse me? I am an adult. This means that not only am I not scared of words, I have the good judgment to know when certain words are inappropriate. This is not a place where you can say where ever you want. We have rules, one of them being "no flaming". **** you is clearly flaming. So is what you just said, which is arguably an even less intelligent decision because you flamed a mod who was warning you. Keep it up and you will be banned. If you want to act like a child, please go to the basement.

[/mod mode]
 
G

gdalton

icantoofly said:
WHY WE HAD TO INVADE IRAQ





September 11, 2001: This date is 5 years, 3 months, and 23 days after Bin Laden left Sudan for Afghanistan and established al Qaeda training bases in Afghanistan.





Note: the US invasion of Iraq was only 1 year, 5 months after al Qaeda first set up training camps in Iraq. If we had waited 5 years, 3 months, and 23 days before invading Iraq like we waited before invading Afghanistan, it is very probable that additional “9/11s” would have occurred in the meantime.





Al Qaeda and all other persons who mass murder civilians, or are accomplices of persons who mass murder civilians, are an extreme danger to the security of humanity in general, and to the security of Iraqis and Americans in particular. For this reason all such persons, whom I call malignancy, must be exterminated. So, it was necessary to invade Iraq in order to exterminate malignancy from Iraq, just as it was necessary to invade Afghanistan in order to exterminate malignancy from Afghanistan.

While we have so far failed to exterminate malignancyin both Iraq and Afghanistan, we must nonetheless persevere until we learn how and do exterminate it. The deadly consequences to us all of failure to do so are intolerable!
:applaud

Maybe some people should read this again.
 

MSgt

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I'd have banned him right after the remark. Of course, I'm a lot less tolerant than most. I'd be an awesome dictator.
 

Kelzie

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GySgt said:
I'd have banned him right after the remark. Of course, I'm a lot less tolerant than most. I'd be an awesome dictator.
We all have different talents...:lol:

I noticed he was new, and decided to give him the benefit of the doubt.
 

Simon W. Moon

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Powerbuilt said:
There were no terrorist training camps under Saddam's rule?
I'm not sure where this canard keeps coming from, but I wish it would go on and die already.

re-re-re-posting this info again:

Saddam did indeed provide bases to international terrorists. I'm not talking about that INC bullshit, Salman Pak, I'm talking about Camp Ashraf.

Sazeman-e Mojahedin-e Khalq-e Iran
 
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Simon W. Moon

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icantoofly said:
Originally Posted by in these excerpts, Wikipedia,

The al Qaeda aligned, Ansar al Islam, was formed in northern Iraq in December 2001 and included some of those fleeing the US, October 20, 2001, invasion of Afghanistan . At the beginning of the US March 20, 2003, invasion of Iraq, the al Qaeda aligned, Ansar al Islam, controlled about a dozen villages and a range of peaks in northern Iraq on the Iranian border.

When the US invaded Iraq, it attacked the al Qaeda aligned, Ansar al Islam, training camps in northern Iraq, and this organization's leaders retreated to neighboring countries. When the war in the north settled down, the militants returned to Iraq to fight against the occupying American forces.

This area was not under Saddam control, but rather was inside the no-fly zone. We could have taken out these terrorists who resided inside the US's no-fly zone w/o a full scale invasion. Since the Bush administration had several chances to wipe out his terrorist operation and perhaps kill Zarqawi himself — but never pulled the trigger because Team Bush feared destroying Zarqawi's terrorist camp in Iraq could undercut its case for war against Saddam Ansar al-Islam is hardly a reason to invade.

Sadly, GWB described Zarqawi as the best evidence of a meaningful connection between Saddam and UbL.

icantoofly said:
Note: the US invasion of Iraq was only 1 year, 5 months after al Qaeda first set up training camps in Iraq.

This is a straight up falsehood. aQ did not "set up training camps in Iraq" until after the US-led invasion of Iraq. Asnar al-Islam was a seperate entity that operated inside the US no-fly zone and was at odds w/ the Iraqi Baathis.

icantoofly said:
If we had waited 5 years, 3 months, and 23 days before invading Iraq like we waited before invading Afghanistan, it is very probable that additional “9/11s” would have occurred in the meantime.
Since aQ is well entrenched in Iraq now, how long til we have our next 9-11? Hooking aQ up w/ a new and improved training camp kind of kills the whole GWoT angle don't it?


Testimony of Director of Central Intelligence Porter J. Goss Before the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence
16 February 2005

Islamic extremists are exploiting the Iraqi conflict to recruit new anti-US jihadists.
These jihadists who survive will leave Iraq experienced in and focused on acts of urban terrorism. They represent a potential pool of contacts to build transnational terrorist cells, groups, and networks in Saudi Arabia, Jordan and other countries.​
http://www.foia.cia.gov/2020/2020.pdf
• Anti-globalization and opposition to
US policies could cement a greater
body of terrorist sympathizers,
financiers, and collaborators.
societies.

Iraq and other possible conflicts in
the future could provide recruitment,
training grounds, technical skills and
language proficiency for a new class
of terrorists who are “professionalized”
and for whom political
violence becomes an end in itself
.​

'New militant threat' from Iraq
The insurgency in Iraq is creating a new type of Islamic militant who could go on to destabilise other countries, a leaked CIA report says.

The classified document says Iraqi and foreign fighters are developing a broad range of skills, from car bombings and assassinations to co-ordinated attacks.

It says these skills may make them more dangerous than fighters from Afghanistan in the 1980s and 1990s.

And the threat may grow when the Iraq insurgency ends and fighters disperse.

The broad conclusions of the report have been confirmed by an unnamed CIA official and are said to have been widely circulated in the intelligence community.​
Iraq May Be Prime Place for Training of Militants, C.I.A. Report Concludes
A new classified assessment by the Central Intelligence Agency says Iraq may prove to be an even more effective training ground for Islamic extremists than Afghanistan was in Al Qaeda's early days, because it is serving as a real-world laboratory for urban combat.

They said the assessment had argued that Iraq, since the American invasion of 2003, had in many ways assumed the role played by Afghanistan during the rise of Al Qaeda during the 1980's and 1990's, as a magnet and a proving ground for Islamic extremists from Saudi Arabia and other Islamic countries.​
Iraq a site to train terrorists, CIA says
The CIA believes the Iraq insurgency poses an international threat and may produce better-trained Islamic terrorists than the 1980s Afghanistan war that gave rise to Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda, officials said yesterday.

Once the insurgency ends, Islamic militants are likely to disperse as highly organized battle-hardened combatants capable of operating throughout the Arab-speaking world and in other regions including Europe.

The May report, which has been widely circulated in the intelligence community, also cites a potential threat to the United States.

Although the Afghan war against the Soviets was largely fought on a rural battlefield, the CIA report said, Iraq is providing extremists with more comprehensive skills including training in operations devised for populated urban areas.
 

Simon W. Moon

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More about the MeK & Camp Ashraf:

From: http://www.cia.gov/cia/reports/iraq_...ne_Events.html

295 POL April 2001 Major Iranian missile attack on Mujaheddin el-Khalq (MEK) facilities in Iraq
From:
http://cfrterrorism.org/groups/mujahedeen_print.html
Where does MEK operate?
The group’s armed unit operated from camps in Iraq near the Iran border since 1986. During the Iraq war, U.S. troops disarmed MEK and posted guards at its bases. In addition to its Paris-based members, MEK has a network of sympathizers in Europe, the United States, and Canada. The group’s political arm, the National Council of Resistance of Iran, maintains offices in several capitals, including Washington, D.C.
The group is right at this very moment holed up in Iraq on the base that Saddam gave them, Camp Ashraf:

From: http://library.nps.navy.mil/home/tgp/mek.htm
The group’s worldwide campaign against the Iranian Government stresses propaganda and occasionally uses terrorism. During the 1970s, the MEK killed US military personnel and US civilians working on defense projects in Tehran and supported the takeover in 1979 of the US Embassy in Tehran. In 1981, the MEK detonated bombs in the head office of the Islamic Republic Party and the Premier’s office, killing some 70 high-ranking Iranian officials,

Baghdad armed the MEK with military equipment and sent it into action against Iranian forces. In 1991, the MEK assisted the Government of Iraq in suppressing the Shia and Kurdish uprisings in southern Iraq and the Kurdish uprisings in the north. In April 1992, the MEK conducted near-simultaneous attacks on Iranian embassies and installations in 13 countries, demonstrating the group’s ability to mount large-scale operations overseas.

Over 3,000 MEK members are currently confined to Camp Ashraf, the MEK’s main compound north of Baghdad, where they remain under the Geneva Convention’s "protected person" status and Coalition control. As a condition of the cease-fire agreement, the group relinquished its weapons, including tanks, armored vehicles, and heavy artillery. A significant number of MEK personnel have "defected" from the Ashraf group, and several dozen of them have been voluntarily repatriated to Iran.

Before Operation Iraqi Freedom, the group received all of its military assistance, and most of its financial support, from the former Iraqi regime.
Camp Ashraf
The Mujahedin el-Khalq (MKO or MEK) main base is at Camp Ashraf, Iraq, about 100 kilometers west of the Iranian border and 60 kilometers north of Baghdad. The People's Mujahadeen, also known by its Persian name Mujahedeen-e Khalq (MEK), has been classified by Washington as a terrorist organization. Washington announced on 22 April 2003 that it had reached a ceasefire with the MEK. The next day MEK officials said the agreement allowed the MEK to keep its weapons and carry on its activities in Iran from Camp Ashraf. But June 2003 the US Military Police took control of Camp Ashraf and the MEK was consolidated and all weapons secured by MPs. As of September 2003 the 4,000 MEK members in the former Mujahedeen base were consolidated, detained, disarmed and were being screened for any past terrorist acts.

The 530th MP Battalion, maintained the MEK Detention Facility at Camp Ashraf


gdalton said:
Maybe some people should read this again.
Not me. I've read pretty much the same thing at least once a week since the tail end of 2002.
It doesn't get any better w/ the retelling.
 
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icantoofly said:
It's really terrible how truth keeps sticking its dawgone nose into your false beliefs. I apologize for my part in fomenting its intrusion.

As you were!
What truth there. Asserting a Fundementalists ties with husssien is showing your complete ignorance of basic history of the region.


Islamic Fundimentalists and hussien were never connected. Its just completey untrue..period. Saying you found a piece of paper in some whoel the ground that prooves it is pathetic. You have to be completey stoned to think that anybody would find that nonesence in anyway credible.
 
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Folks websites are things made by people people can li. history when learned properly can not. And little bit of logic wouldnt help either.

I dont care what dot com you give there is no truth to a man who consistantly foguth fundementailist thought and rule for over 2 decades being linked with a group that basis its entire phiosphy off the very thin Hussien fought.

This is just simpleton thinking. Like a child....hussien bad...Bin laden bad...mist be the same. Its not that simple. You have to move beyond your John Wayne back hat white hat western movies and think a little harder then that.
 
G

gdalton

nefarious_plot said:
Folks websites are things made by people people can li. history when learned properly can not. And little bit of logic wouldnt help either.

I dont care what dot com you give there is no truth to a man who consistantly foguth fundementailist thought and rule for over 2 decades being linked with a group that basis its entire phiosphy off the very thin Hussien fought.

This is just simpleton thinking. Like a child....hussien bad...Bin laden bad...mist be the same. Its not that simple. You have to move beyond your John Wayne back hat white hat western movies and think a little harder then that.
Please help us ignorant folks and tell us where you get your truth.
 

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nefarious_plot said:
Folks websites are things made by people people can li. history when learned properly can not. And little bit of logic wouldnt help either.
There're literally tens of thousand of primary sources that demonstrate that the MeK and Saddam were in serious cahoots. There're literally thousands of folks who have first hand accounts of such.

What are you looking for? What would it take to convince you that Saddam underwrote an international terrorist group in a siginifcant way?
 
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Dude. Wheere does it say a website holds the truth? Hussien was always talked about as a Stalinist secualr dictator. The reasons for the iran war were always desciibed as hussien fighting Iran and shiites in the south because of the Shites radical fundmentalism. In teh Gulf War even the proagnda descibed him as Stalinst secular dictaro trying to bring the whole pennesiula under is rule.

Now when tis conviet thats all replaced conviently with this trumped up alternate universe and everybody just disregads the actions of hussien. This doesnt recquire gobs of silly websites. Tarig Aziz was Christian for petes sake. Hussiens all fundy islamic whacko like bin laden but is okay with is Second in commadn being Christian? Its just silly.
 
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Simon W. Moon said:
There're literally tens of thousand of primary sources that demonstrate that the MeK and Saddam were in serious cahoots. There're literally thousands of folks who have first hand accounts of such.
Theres 10 of thousands of sites with first hand accounts of Little green men, Loch ness Monster and Elvis too.

Simon W. Moon said:
What are you looking for? What would it take to convince you that Saddam underwrote an international terrorist group in a siginifcant way?
Nothing. I know its completely untrue.
 
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