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No terrorist training camps in Iraq during Saddam's rule?

Simon W. Moon said:
So you've just "deduced" that UbL was in Iraq, is that it?

That among other things!:smile:
 
Powerbuilt said:
Is it true that Saddam was a secular meglomaniac, that would crush any kind of Islamic fundamental upraising... and that he ruled with a military not terrorists- those are the other (Islamic-ruled) countries in the region.

Just heard this.

There were no terrorist training camps under Saddam's rule?

Discuss.

There was Salmon Pak, the site where Hussein taught pilots to fly planes into buildings. Oh wait. That was a Neocon hoax. Never mind.
 
danarhea said:
There was Salmon Pak, the site where Hussein taught pilots to fly planes into buildings. Oh wait. That was a Neocon hoax. Never mind.
More INC supplied defectors
 
Simon W. Moon said:
More INC supplied defectors

The following sentences were excerpted from Islamic Movement in Kurdistan, and from Ansar al-Islam, in Wikipedia.

"The Islamic Movement in Kurdistan is an Iraqi political party.
Some more radical members joined the al-Queda aligned Ansar al-Islam."
Retrieved from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Movement_in_Kurdistan

"Ansar al-Islam is an Islamist group, promoting a radical interpretation of Islam and holy war.
At the beginning of the 2003 invasion of Iraq it controlled about a dozen villages and a range of peaks in northern Iraq on the Iranian border.
It was formed in December 2001 as a merger of Jund al-Islam (Soldiers of Islam), led by Abu Abdallah al-Shafi'i, and a splinter group from the Islamic Movement in Kurdistan led by Mullah Krekar."
Retrieved from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ansar_al-Islam
……………………………………………………………………
Relevant Dates:
05/19/1996: Bin Laden leaves Sudan and returns to Afghanistan.
+ 5 years, 3 months, 23 days
09/11/2001: Osama’s al Qaeda perpetrates terrorist attack on USA.
+ 1 month, 9 days later.
10/20/2001: USA invades Afghanistan. Did the USA wait to long?
+ 2 months later.
12/20/2001: Osama’s al Qaeda establishes training base in Iraq.
+ 1 year, 3 months later.
03/20/2003: USA invades Iraq. Should the USA have waited longer?
==============================================
While we have so far failed to exterminate malignancy (i.e., those who either mass murder civilians or are accomplices to those who mass murder civilians) in both Iraq and Afghanistan, and in the rest of the world, we must nonetheless persevere until we learn how and do exterminate it. The deadly consequences to us all of failure to do so are too horrible to contemplate much less endure!
==============================================
George Bush is fallible just like the rest of us. However, let’s compare George Bush with Jimmy Carter, Walter Mondale, Michael Dukakis, Bill Clinton, Al Gore, John Kerry, Hillary Clinton, John Edwards, Howard Dean, Dick Durbin, and John McCain. In comparison with these folks, George Bush is a genius and paragon of virtue.
 
icantoofly said:
George Bush is fallible just like the rest of us. However, let’s compare George Bush with Jimmy Carter, Walter Mondale, Michael Dukakis, Bill Clinton, Al Gore, John Kerry, Hillary Clinton, John Edwards, Howard Dean, Dick Durbin, and John McCain. In comparison with these folks, George Bush is a genius and paragon of virtue.

I agree with the Michael Dukakis thing, but your're insulting everyone in that list by placing George's name ahead of their's. He might, and I stress might, be smarter than Curious George or Barney, but that's as far as that goes.
 
kal-el said:
I agree with the Michael Dukakis thing, but your're insulting everyone in that list by placing George's name ahead of their's. He might, and I stress might, be smarter than Curious George or Barney, but that's as far as that goes.

Here are some of the reasons why I claim:
George Bush is fallible just like the rest of us. However, let’s compare George Bush with Jimmy Carter, Walter Mondale, Michael Dukakis, Bill Clinton, Al Gore, John Kerry, Hillary Clinton, John Edwards, Howard Dean, Dick Durbin, and John McCain. In comparison with these folks, George Bush is a genius and paragon of virtue.

First, please recall:The attacks on September 11 kill almost 3,000 in a series of hijacked airliner crashes into two U.S. landmarks: the World Trade Center in New York City, New York, and The Pentagon in Arlington, Virginia. A fourth plane crashes in Somerset County, Pennsylvania.

Excepted from the bipartisan, 9-11 Commission Report, 9/20/2004,
Chapters 10.0 and 10.2:

The night of 9/11, the President broadcast to the nation that we will not distinguish between the terrorists who committed these acts and those who harbor them.

The night of 9/20, the President Bush broadcast to the nation and to a joint session of the Congress that: our enemy is a radical network of terrorists, and every government that supports them; that it is civilization’s fight to punish this radical network; and that we ask every nation to join us in this fight.

On 10/25, the pre-9/11 draft presidential directive on al Qaeda evolved into a new directive, National Security Presidential Directive 9, now titled "Defeating the Terrorist Threat to the United States." The directive would now extend to a global war on terrorism, not just on al Qaeda. It also incorporated the President's determination not to distinguish between terrorists and those who harbor them. It included a determination to use military force if necessary to end al Qaeda's sanctuary in Afghanistan. The new directive -- formally signed on October 25, after the fighting in Afghanistan had already begun -- included new material followed by annexes discussing each targeted terrorist group. The old draft directive on al Qaeda became, in effect, the first annex. The United States would strive to eliminate all terrorist networks, dry up their financial support, and prevent them from acquiring weapons of mass destruction. The goal was the "elimination of terrorism as a threat to our way of life."
www.9-11commission.gov/report/index.htm

Why do you claim otherwise?
 
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September 11 practically transformed this morons Presidency. It was just about forgotten how rough it was going for Bush by the middle of 2001, 6months into his Presidency. His devotion to the interests of the wealthy and big business were easily visable. Bush was increasingly seen as out of touch (though he spent much time on vactaion), and Cheney and Karl Rove were commonly seen as the Brain's behind Bush'sPresidency.

After 9/11, Bush's approval ratings took off,pretty much as high as 85% (Now he won't see that, just in his rearview mirror), after the fall of the Taliban. In terms of political capital, W struck it rich. Al-Qeada gave himthe mandate, the public didn't. Congress, the public,and the media all seemed spineless and ready to bend to Bush's Administration. Whoever didn't bend to his authority, were called "unpatrioitc."

War practically handed W a blank check. Almost everything he introduced- the same reverse robin hood program he initiated before 9/11- was wrapped in red, white, and blue. And it was all billed as vital to national security. Bush's political mastermind Karl Rove told Repubs they should use the war on terror to take back the Senate in 2002. On the flip side, Republicans warned Dems not to politisize the war.

Questioning our leader's motives and drawing distictions is not unpatriotic. On the contrary, it's George Bush constantly serving special interests and their own political ends, even during wartime, who is unpatriotic.
 
kal-el said:
September 11 practically transformed this morons Presidency. ... it's George Bush constantly serving special interests and their own political ends, even during wartime, who is unpatriotic.
When you get tired of repeating the fictions of others, you might want to try to learn the truth. I suggest the following sources:

SOURCES:

1. Osama Bin Laden "Declaration of War Against the Americans Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Places"-1996;
and,
Osama Bin Laden: Text of Fatwah Urging Jihad Against Americans-1998
http://www.mideastweb.org/osambinladen1.htm
[scroll down to find them both]

2. Al-Qaida Statement Warning Muslims Against Associating With The Crusaders And Idols; Translation By JUS; Jun 09, 2004
Al-Qaida Organization of the Arab Gulf; 19 Rabbi Al-Akhir 1425
http://www.mail-archive.com/tumpat@yahoogroups.com/msg00035.html

3. 9-11 Commission, 9/20/2004
www.9-11commission.gov/report/index.htm

4. Charles Duelfer's Report, 30 September 2004
www.cia.gov/cia/reports/iraq_wmd_2004/Comp_Report_Key_Findings.pdf

5. Secretary of State, Colin Powell’s speech to UN, 2/5/2003,
"sinister nexus"
http://www.state.gov/secretary/former/powell/remarks/2003/17300.htm

6. "American Soldier," by General Tommy Franks, 7/1/2004
"10" Regan Books, An Imprint of HarperCollins Publishers

7. The Encyclopedia Britannica
Iraq
www.britannica.com

8. Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Islamic Movement in Kurdistan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Movement_in_Kurdistan;
Ansaral-Islam
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ansar_al-Islam

9. Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Terrorist Incidents
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents#1996
 
You wanna talk about Bin Laden's fatwa he issued, well he very clearly stated that he perceived us to be occupyiers on Saudi soil, and how we aid Isreal while they kill many of his comrades in Lebanon. Not to mention, he took it that we casted the sanctions on Iraq killing over 500,000.

And, what, Bush isn't a complete and utter idiot? When he played dress-up on that air craft carrier in 2003, and said, "Mission Accomplished", then if it is accomplished, why are we still there? IMO, he just pulled that flight stunt to emphasize he had fighter-pilot experience. But,W's military record is a joke. His family connections kept him out of Nam by sending him to the Texas Air NationalGaurd. And then, if that'snot funny enough, he went AWOL for a full year!
 
kal-el said:
You wanna talk about Bin Laden's fatwa he issued, well he very clearly stated that he perceived us to be occupyiers on Saudi soil, and how we aid Isreal while they kill many of his comrades in Lebanon. Not to mention, he took it that we casted the sanctions on Iraq killing over 500,000.
BUNK! Read the entire set off fatwahs: 1996, 1998, 2004

kal-el said:
And, what, Bush isn't a complete and utter idiot? When he played dress-up on that air craft carrier in 2003, and said, "Mission Accomplished", then if it is accomplished, why are we still there?
BUNK! That mission accomplished banner was attached to the bridge of the aircraft carrier. It was that aircraft carrier and its crew whose mission was accomplished: the removal of Saddam'sregime.


kal-el said:
IMO, he just pulled that flight stunt to emphasize he had fighter-pilot experience. But,W's military record is a joke. His family connections kept him out of Nam by sending him to the Texas Air NationalGaurd. And then, if that'snot funny enough, he went AWOL for a full year!

BUNK! He did not go AWOL. Your news media sources lied to you. If Bush's military record is a joke, then John Kerry's Vietnam military record is a far bigger joke and many lies besides!
 
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