Nicholas Sarkozy seeks far right votes

[Infinite Chaos]

French President Nicolas Sarkozy is wooing far-right voters after losing narrowly to his Socialist rival in the presidential election's first round. Link

Question is, are these hard core far right minded voters or people simply disaffected by the mainstream right in France?

Marine le Pen apparently polled 18% in the presidential rounds (higher than her father ever managed) and she is going to be around to contest the next 3-4 Presidential elections if the pattern of leadership stability remains as it did with her father.

Will we also see France drifting politically ever rightwards and slowly to the extreme in the next generation?

 

[Higgins86]

Frances right wing is always scary, the fact she got more votes than her father is odd.

 

[DrunkenAsparagus]

The assumption that Le Pen's supporters will automatically go for Sarkozy is a faulty one. I saw a poll that only about half of Le Pen's voters will go for Sarkozy, a quarter will go for Hollande, and the rest will stay home. Many of her supporters are even former Communists and other people generally fed up with establishment politics that Sarkozy seems to represent. I'm no fan of Le Pen. I almost had a heart attack when someone mistakenly told me that she made it to the second round, but she does have the appeal of coming off as non-mainstream, which given the state of politics can win over many voters. Many French voters are very understandably frustrated with how politics are working in the country, much like they are here. Many see Le Pen as an alternative to this system. To them Sarkozy is not Le Pen-lite, but the representation of all that is wrong about French politics and her antithesis.

 

[PeteEU]

Frances right wing is always scary, the fact she got more votes than her father is odd.

Not really, she is young, pretty and has boobs.. her father was old and looked like our great grandfather and that turned off some people.

 

[Andalublue]

Sarkozy must be assuming that he has a better chance of winning over Le Pen voters from the extreme right end of the French political spectrum than he does of winning Bayrou's centrist voters. His big problem is that he can't court one tendency without further alienating the other. Hollande has a less onerous task of not putting off Bayrou voters by moving too far towards Mélenchon. He probably assumes that Mélenchon and Joly voters will support him over Sarkozy, come what may.

 

[Camlon]

Question is, are these hard core far right minded voters or people simply disaffected by the mainstream right in France?

Marine le Pen apparently polled 18% in the presidential rounds (higher than her father ever managed) and she is going to be around to contest the next 3-4 Presidential elections if the pattern of leadership stability remains as it did with her father.

Will we also see France drifting politically ever rightwards and slowly to the extreme in the next generation?

From what I see, France is turning towards the right socially, but towards the left economically.

If you believe in free markets who do you vote for in the French election? The right have increased taxes, wants to increase taxes again and even wants to include an emigration tax to trap people into the country. The left are just crazy. They want to put in a 75% income tax to make sure nothing is ever created by the free market again, and he wants to kick out all financial industry in the country. If you don't like that, then you have a quasi-socialist who wants a max wage of 200K, a economical left wing nationalist candidate, and a centrists who would be on the left in every other country.

 

[Manc Skipper]

Someone on another board was quoting a French analysis suggesting that Sarko's calculation is that he gains three rightwing votes for every centre vote he loses. Ms Le Pen has toned down the racist rhetoric of her father, to make her fascist party appear more socially acceptable.

 

[German guy]

(...) If you don't like that, then you have a quasi-socialist who wants a max wage of 200K, a economical left wing nationalist candidate, and a centrists who would be on the left in every other country.

No, Bayrou would be centrist in any country and would only appear "left" in the US (and maybe New Zealand too, I don't know), because the political spectrum in America is strongly skewed to the far right.

 

[Camlon]

No, Bayrou would be centrist in any country and would only appear "left" in the US (and maybe New Zealand too, I don't know), because the political spectrum in America is strongly skewed to the far right.

You might be right, and I have misunderstood his policies, but if that is the case then he is no centrist in France.

But fact is, France has the highest spending of any country in Europe. Politicians should be more interested in cutting spending. This guy doesn't propose any spending cut what so ever. He only talks about about how he is going to increase taxes again. He wants to have a financial transaction tax, 10% increase in income tax, and a higher VAT. That doesn't sound very centrists. Also, on the social side he is clearly left wing. He is very into environmentalism and a federal Europe with shared taxes. I mean, this guy is clearly to the left of the Danish Social Liberal Party, but they are on the left.

Is Denmark a right wing country now?

 

[Higgins86]

Someone on another board was quoting a French analysis suggesting that Sarko's calculation is that he gains three rightwing votes for every centre vote he loses. Ms Le Pen has toned down the racist rhetoric of her father, to make her fascist party appear more socially acceptable.

yeh up until the eve of the election when she went back to her dad's line on immigration, she was losing votes until then.

 

[Ben K.]

Some would find it unfortunate that the center of gravity of the US political spectrum is considered far right by the European political and media establishment.

I think the fact that Bayrou supporters are urging he support Hollande, a politician who is practical bed-fellows with Melanchon at this stage (who is maybe more extreme than Lepen but happens to describe himself as left as opposed to right) shatters the notion of centricism.

 

[German guy]

You might be right, and I have misunderstood his policies, but if that is the case then he is no centrist in France.

But fact is, France has the highest spending of any country in Europe. Politicians should be more interested in cutting spending. This guy doesn't propose any spending cut what so ever. He only talks about about how he is going to increase taxes again. He wants to have a financial transaction tax, 10% increase in income tax, and a higher VAT. That doesn't sound very centrists. Also, on the social side he is clearly left wing. He is very into environmentalism and a federal Europe with shared taxes. I mean, this guy is clearly to the left of the Danish Social Liberal Party, but they are on the left.

Is Denmark a right wing country now?

Financial transaction tax, income tax of 50%, higher VAT, environmentalism and federal Europe are demands by many right-wing parties in Europe. The German conservative Christian Democrats support all that too, except maybe an income tax of 50%. Most European conservative parties do that.

Environmentalism can be motivated by deeply conservative values: Protecting God's creation and a life worth living for human beings. IMO only people stuck in the 50s oppose environmentalism in general, it has nothing to do with left vs. right. The only people who are still 50 decades behind and, for example, deny global warming like others deny earth is not flat, are the American Republicans (which is because they are totally in the pockets of big business). Most other right-wing parties don't oppose environmentalism in general, and don't even necessarily think economics and ecology are opposites.

And we had the Europe topic already. There is nothing "left" about supporting a federal Europe whatsoever. A more integrated Europe means more free markets, bigger free markets and many other freedoms, which is why many on the right support it and many on the left oppose it.

 

[PeteEU]

You might be right, and I have misunderstood his policies, but if that is the case then he is no centrist in France.

But fact is, France has the highest spending of any country in Europe. Politicians should be more interested in cutting spending. This guy doesn't propose any spending cut what so ever. He only talks about about how he is going to increase taxes again. He wants to have a financial transaction tax, 10% increase in income tax, and a higher VAT. That doesn't sound very centrists. Also, on the social side he is clearly left wing. He is very into environmentalism and a federal Europe with shared taxes. I mean, this guy is clearly to the left of the Danish Social Liberal Party, but they are on the left.

Errr wait a minute. Are you talking about this party?

Danish Social Liberal Party - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If so, then yes he is to the left of that... the above party is a centrist party.. with leanings to both the right and left.. I call it a transvestite party, since it has been the power maker in Danish politics between the left and right for 40+ years. Remember Liberal is not socialist when we are outside the US... it is right wing.

To the left of them are the Social Democrats (present Prime Minister is from that party) and even further out there is the Socialist Peoples Party and then the Communists and what not.

Hollande is like the Social Democrats in Denmark (and elsewhere.) with many of the same policy ideas. He is NOT on the far left with the Socialist Peoples Party and further out.... very few policy similarities there. In fact I would put him closer to the RV (Social Liberal Party) than the Social Democrats on most policies.

Is Denmark a right wing country now?

Yes and no. The right in Denmark is under a transformation, and only lost the last election due to the utter implosion of the Conservative Party. If there was an election today, then they would be back in power.

 

[Camlon]

Financial transaction tax, income tax of 50%, higher VAT, environmentalism and federal Europe are demands by many right-wing parties in Europe. The German conservative Christian Democrats support all that too, except maybe an income tax of 50%. Most European conservative parties do that.

You mean, an income tax of 75%. Remember, France also has very high social security taxes. I don't know what European parties you are talking about, but the countries I know no right wing parties support any of that. That includes UK, Sweden, Denmark and Norway. They may increase taxes, but only if they can get substantial spending cuts. Høyre, the conservative party in Norway who has 30% of the votes. They do not support an European or Norwegian financial tax, they do not want to increase the VAT, and they want to decrease income taxes. That is how right wing parties are supposed to be like.

Environmentalism can be motivated by deeply conservative values: Protecting God's creation and a life worth living for human beings. IMO only brainwashed people with a stone-age mindset oppose environmentalism in general, it has nothing to do with left vs. right. The only people who are still 50 decades behind and, for example, deny global warming like others deny earth is not flat, are the American Republicans (which is because they are totally in the pockets of big business).

There is a difference between conservation, and environmentalism. Right wing parties, apart from America tends to in favour of conservation and responsible development. However, the more radical form of environmentalism is supported by the left, because it is not a right wing ideology. Right wingers are supposed to believe in individualism, and radical environmentalism is collectivism. Right wingers are supposed to believe in the free market, and that the free market can solve many of our problems. If you believe radical action is needed to save the environment, then you don't really believe in free markets, do you?

And we had the Europe topic already. There is nothing "left" about supporting a federal Europe whatsoever. A more integrated Europe means more free markets, bigger free markets and many other freedoms, which is why many on the right support it and many on the left oppose it.

No, an integrated Europe, means an Europe closed off to the rest of the world. Trade agreements are right wing, but unions are left wing. Right wingers believe competition will improve Europe, so different countries can pursue different policies. In a federal Europe, that is impossible. Everyone have to have the same tax policies, same immigration policies. Why can't one country have different policies, because the interest of the many is more important than the interest of the few.

The belief in world government, is an old socialist idea. It is certainly not a right wing idea. All the right wing benefits you mention, we can get from a trade union.

What's up with continental Europe. Is it common to redefine right wing like that, or is it just you?

 

[Gardener]

Some would find it unfortunate that the center of gravity of the US political spectrum is considered far right by the European political and media establishment.

.

We certainly have no shortage of extremely conformist people who rely on the recanting of dogma as their main political outlet, and who view "conservatism" in terms of identity. They use the term "liberal" as a perforative, and do not view political issues according to their actual merit, but by where they perceive them to be on this left/right political scale.

THis is every bit as true for European countries, of course, but the prevailing orthodoxy is more likely to be left rather than right. The same degree of conformity and dogmatism certainly applies, though, as is so much in evidence in this sub forum as issues are gauged likewise according to whether they are right or left -- and this despite any inherently liberal or conservative underpinning to the actual idea.

Stupid, dogmatic people abound, and although it is tempting for self-satisfied Europeans to look down their nose at Americans for their politics, perhaps they should be looking at their own as well.

 

[Camlon]

Errr wait a minute. Are you talking about this party?

Danish Social Liberal Party - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If so, then yes he is to the left of that... the above party is a centrist party.. with leanings to both the right and left.. I call it a transvestite party, since it has been the power maker in Danish politics between the left and right for 40+ years. Remember Liberal is not socialist when we are outside the US... it is right wing.

This "centrist" party hasn't been in a right wing government for 22 years. Back then, they were swapping parties, but that was before immigration became a hot topic. Now, they are clearly on the left in Danish politics, because they are unable to participate in a right wing government.

Bayrou is clearly to the left of a party who is only able to participate with the left in Denmark. But somehow, he is a centrist in France. My point is, France is a very left wing country, and for people who believe in free markets, there are no options. They all want to increase taxes radically. None of them has any plans of cutting spending, and all of them blame every single problem on the rich.

To the left of them are the Social Democrats (present Prime Minister is from that party) and even further out there is the Socialist Peoples Party and then the Communists and what not.

Hollande is like the Social Democrats in Denmark (and elsewhere.) with many of the same policy ideas. He is NOT on the far left with the Socialist Peoples Party and further out.... very few policy similarities there. In fact I would put him closer to the RV (Social Liberal Party) than the Social Democrats on most policies.

Really, so Social Democrats wants to increase taxes from the current level of 60% to 85-90%? In fact when they got into office, they did not increase taxes, at least not on a substantial level.

Hollande is extreme. He is the left wing equivalent of the Tea Party. And I know Norwegian politics well. If I heard him speak in Norway, I would think he was from the socialist party. There is no way he would fit in the labour party. I don't think the Social Democrats in Denmark are that different from the labour party in Norway.

 

[PeteEU]

This centrist party hasn't been in a right wing government for 22 years. Back then, they were swapping parties, but that was before immigration became a hot topic. Now, they are clearly on the left because they are unable to participate in a right wing government.

HAHA, good one. They did not participate in right wing governments because of various factors. But they did provide the mandates to secure right wing governments and had influence on policy. Just because you are not in government does not mean you dont have influence on policy.... RV has not had any influence the last decade because the right wing turned to the far right for backing instead of them, because the RV jumped ship in the 1990s and supported the Social Democrats over the right wing to prevent that the Socialist Peoples Party got too much influence, which btw is what they are doing now as well. They are pulling the Social Democrats to the right.

Really, so Social Democrats wants to increase taxes from the current level of 60% to 85-90%? In fact when they got into office, they did not increase taxes, at least not on a substantial level.

Two different countries, and different situations. Our taxes in Denmark are already considerably higher than in France, especially for the rich. The principles are the same... the rich must pay more in % than the rest.. now what the tax rate is, depends on what country you are in. The Social Democrats would love to raise taxes on the rich, but guess who prevents that... oh yea that "left wing party" the RV...

It is easy to see that Hollande is extreme. She is the left wing equivalent of the Tea Party. And I know Norwegian politics well. If I heard her speak in Norway, I would think she was from the socialist party. There is no way she would fit in the labour party. I don't the Social Democrats in Denmark are that different from the labour party in Norway.

For the love of god... Labour and the Social Democrats are socialist parties HAHA.. you are really floundering here.. why dont you just give up?

 

[Cyrillic]

Someone on another board was quoting a French analysis suggesting that Sarko's calculation is that he gains three rightwing votes for every centre vote he loses. Ms Le Pen has toned down the racist rhetoric of her father, to make her fascist party appear more socially acceptable.

Is Jean-Luc Mélenchon communist by you? He isn't even Lenin's small finger. Same for these nationals. You cannot even compare them with Hitler. They are just there ''to protect'' France from Islam and immigrants. I may say they need protection from newcomers. I was 5 days in Paris not a single French person, not even single white person I saw. They spoke French though. Nice is different story.

 

[Camlon]

HAHA, good one. They did not participate in right wing governments because of various factors. But they did provide the mandates to secure right wing governments and had influence on policy. Just because you are not in government does not mean you dont have influence on policy.... RV has not had any influence the last decade because the right wing turned to the far right for backing instead of them, because the RV jumped ship in the 1990s and supported the Social Democrats over the right wing to prevent that the Socialist Peoples Party got too much influence, which btw is what they are doing now as well. They are pulling the Social Democrats to the right.

The right has led for 10 years without any help from RV, when they lost RV decided to go in coalition with the left, even though they could have supported the right. You are right, they are pulling them to the right in economic affairs, but they are also pulling them to the left in social affairs. How is this relevant to if they are centrist or not.

Fact is, RV will not be able to support the right. Their ideology is too different. Hence, RV is now part of the left. A true centre party would be able to support both sides.

Two different countries, and different situations. Our taxes in Denmark are already considerably higher than in France, especially for the rich. The principles are the same... the rich must pay more in % than the rest.. now what the tax rate is, depends on what country you are in. The Social Democrats would love to raise taxes on the rich, but guess who prevents that... oh yea that "left wing party" the RV...

First off, taxes on the rich in Denmark are not higher. They are about the same. In France the top marginal rate is 40%, but the effective social security taxes is about 40%. (70% without deductions) That is about 60% in taxes. France, already has one of the highest tax rates. If you don't believe me, look here and remember to click on the 166%. http://www.ekonomifakta.se/sv/Fakta/Skatter/Rakna-pa-dina-skatter/Jamfor-skatter-mellan-lander/

Two countries, two different situations? What are you talking about. Is high taxes on the rich that different in Scandinavia or France. Their tax rate is about the same. The inequality in France is not much higher. The difference is, In Denmark not even the left is increasing taxes. In France, everyone including the right support higher taxes. I am just pointing out, France is a very left wing country. But you don't like to hear that? Maybe you support Hollande, and is part of the far left, but you don't want to acknowledge that Scandinavia is further to the right than you?

For the love of god... Labour and the Social Democrats are socialist parties HAHA.. you are really floundering here.. why dont you just give up?

Except last time I made direct comparisons between Hollande and Labour in Norway. I showed that Hollande is substantially to the left of Labour in Norway. What did you do? You didn't respond, so I assumed you realized you were wrong. If you believe you are right, then I reccomend that you respond to those arguments, because I won't let you define who is right or not. You need to come with arguments.

 

[German guy]

Is Jean-Luc Mélenchon communist by you? He isn't even Lenin's small finger. Same for these nationals. You cannot even compare them with Hitler. They are just there ''to protect'' France from Islam and immigrants. I may say they need protection from newcomers. I was 5 days in Paris not a single French person, not even single white person I saw. They spoke French though. Nice is different story.

The National Front and Le Pen are more radical than other far right-populists such as Wilders or Haider: They had strong ties to the Vichy-regime and still have sympathy for this Nazi puppet regime, many are rabid anti-Semites denying the Holocaust and so on. Marine Le Pen has just attempted to play down this radicalism a bit, disguising as "modern" right-populist with focus on islamophobia.

 

[German guy]

@Camlon:

I think we had this debate before. A one-dimensional left vs. right-scale (right=markets, left= state) is not suited at all to represent the different political leanings and ideologies in Europe. Maybe it is in New Zealand, but certainly not in Europe. At very least, you need a second "authoritarian vs. social liberal" dimension.

 

[ThirdTerm]

Will we also see France drifting politically ever rightwards and slowly to the extreme in the next generation?

Sarkozy said Le Pen's strong showing was due to a protest vote against him and Le Pen is expected to advise her supporters to vote for Hollande and Sarkozy is not popular among those anti-establishment voters. Surveys taken since Sunday reflect Le Pen voters divided roughly into thirds on second round intent. One group says it plans to back Sarkozy; another indicates it will back Hollande to get rid of the president; and the remainder is leaning towards abstention. Sarkozy has only a slim chance to win the second round and France will lean socialist for the next five years.

 

[PeteEU]

The right has led for 10 years without any help from RV, when they lost RV decided to go in coalition with the left, even though they could have supported the right. You are right, they are pulling them to the right in economic affairs, but they are also pulling them to the left in social affairs. How is this relevant to if they are centrist or not.

Err again you dont read what I wrote. RV has been part of the power elite for decades. It is only the last 10 years that they have not been, because the Liberals and Conservative Party used the far right racist Peoples Party as their basis for the minority government as payback. Now before that, RV was the parliamentary basis for the Social Democrats, and before that they were the parliamentary basis for the Conservative/Liberal government.

Fact is, RV will not be able to support the right. Their ideology is too different. Hence, RV is now part of the left. A true centre party would be able to support both sides.

Horse****. Fact is the Liberals and Conservatives hold grudges against RV and RV has resorted to being the lapdog for the Social Democrats because RV fears SF and the far left. RV motivation has always been to pull left or right to the middle and they have been mostly successful on that point, except the last decade where the right flipped them off because of their flip flopping. Today they are back in power to pull the Social Democrats as far to the right as possible and give as little power to the far left SF.

First off, taxes on the rich in Denmark are not higher. They are about the same. In France the top marginal rate is 40%, but the effective social security taxes is about 40%. (70% without deductions) That is about 60% in taxes. France, already has one of the highest tax rates. If you don't believe me, look here and remember to click on the 166%. Jämför skatter mellan länder | Räkna på dina skatter | Skatter | Fakta och statistik | Ekonomifakta.se

LOL seriously, you need to check your facts.

According to the OECD, the top rate of marginal tax in France is 38.4%. Add in other social contributions it adds up to 50.5%
According to the OECD, the top rate of marginal tax in Denmark including social contributions is 56.1%

http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/46/18/2506453.xls

N.B. It downloads an XLS file.. for Microsoft Excel.

Now he wants to raise this top tax rate to 75%.. and so freaking what? It is not like the rich cant afford it.. it is the TOP marginal rate, not for the whole income.. Do I think it is a wise move? No, but it hardly makes him some sort of marxist socialist far left winger.. it makes him a populist.

Two countries, two different situations? What are you talking about. Is high taxes on the rich that different in Scandinavia or France. Their tax rate is about the same. The inequality in France is not much higher. The difference is, In Denmark not even the left is increasing taxes. In France, everyone including the right support higher taxes. I am just pointing out, France is a very left wing country. But you don't like to hear that? Maybe you support Hollande, and is part of the far left, but you don't want to acknowledge that Scandinavia is further to the right than you?

You simply do not understand things. They support higher taxes because they want to punish the freaking bankers and rich people who caused the economic crisis we are in. That wish is no different in Denmark or France, it is just dealt with differently. And if you knew anything about the Social Democrats in Denmark.. they do want to get the top rate up.. but cant because of RV... for now at least.

Except last time I made direct comparisons between Hollande and Labour in Norway. I showed that Hollande is substantially to the left of Labour in Norway. What did you do? You didn't respond, so I assumed you realized you were wrong. If you believe you are right, then I reccomend that you respond to those arguments, because I won't let you define who is right or not. You need to come with arguments.

Left is left.. Social Democrats are left wing, as are the communists.. it is all in a degree. Your attempt to not put the Labour party in Norway on the leftis idiotic to say the least. Norway is one of the most "socialist" countries on the planet.

 

[Camlon]

Err again you dont read what I wrote. RV has been part of the power elite for decades. It is only the last 10 years that they have not been, because the Liberals and Conservative Party used the far right racist Peoples Party as their basis for the minority government as payback. Now before that, RV was the parliamentary basis for the Social Democrats, and before that they were the parliamentary basis for the Conservative/Liberal government.

Horse****. Fact is the Liberals and Conservatives hold grudges against RV and RV has resorted to being the lapdog for the Social Democrats because RV fears SF and the far left. RV motivation has always been to pull left or right to the middle and they have been mostly successful on that point, except the last decade where the right flipped them off because of their flip flopping. Today they are back in power to pull the Social Democrats as far to the right as possible and give as little power to the far left SF.

No, what happened was that the right moved right, and took their voters with them in the last decade. Hence RV got forced to the left, and is no longer a centre party. The centre in a country is abritary, and changing.

You just don't like it because you support Hollande and RV, and you want to define yourself as centrist. But you are not a centrost, because you are to the left of RV, and Hollande is a radical.

LOL seriously, you need to check your facts.

According to the OECD, the top rate of marginal tax in France is 38.4%. Add in other social contributions it adds up to 50.5%
According to the OECD, the top rate of marginal tax in Denmark including social contributions is 56.1%

http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/46/18/2506453.xls

It is hard to calculate tax rate with all of the exemption. But 50% is not low, and some people need to pay more because they won't get all of the exemptions. But it is then clear that the effective tax rate will be about 80% with a 75% income tax. That is much, much higher than Denmark. Even the centrist candidate want to increase it to 61%, which is the highest in the world.

You simply do not understand things. They support higher taxes because they want to punish the freaking bankers and rich people who caused the economic crisis we are in. That wish is no different in Denmark or France, it is just dealt with differently. And if you knew anything about the Social Democrats in Denmark.. they do want to get the top rate up.. but cant because of RV... for now at least.

Haha, punish bankers. You mean, punish themselves. Bankers can just leave to Switzerland, and they already are. Yes, many of them can afford a 80% tax rate, but why stay? Danish politicians may want the top tax marginal rate to go up, but not to 80% effective income tax rate. They know that is just a dumb policy that will hurt themselves. The left in France is so radical, they don't care. In Norway we dont have any party pulling the left to the right economically, and they have no plans to increase top marginal tax rates.

Also, politicians cause crisis, not bankers.

Left is left.. Social Democrats are left wing, as are the communists.. it is all in a degree. Your attempt to not put the Labour party in Norway on the leftis idiotic to say the least. Norway is one of the most "socialist" countries on the planet.

Haha, Norway is not the most socialist country on the planet. Your data show clearly that Norway has lower tax rates. All economic freedom rankings put Norway way ahead of France, and Norwegian politicians on the right are not interested in tax increases. You like to state that Norway is so left wing, but you are not able to describe in what way Norway is more left wing that France.

In Norway, politicians on the right do not want to increase taxes, or punish bankers.

 

[Camlon]

@Camlon:

I think we had this debate before. A one-dimensional left vs. right-scale (right=markets, left= state) is not suited at all to represent the different political leanings and ideologies in Europe. Maybe it is in New Zealand, but certainly not in Europe. At very least, you need a second "authoritarian vs. social liberal" dimension.

Well, then why are you writing that US is to the right of Europe, if you don't want to use those simple metrics?

There is no specific definition on what is left or right, but the right tends to either culturally conservative or economically right wing countries. Or both. Parties who are very socially liberal, and economically to the left, are in my view left wing parties. The reason they are centrist in France is because France is a very left wing country.