Myth of Male Power[W:166,W:829]

[SheWolf]

Re: Myth of Male Power

How do you determine if women are genetically submissive or not? What is your evidence that females are in submissive positions to males in every species?

In the hunter and gatherer societies, yes, women did stay behind and not hunt. Because if fertile females were constantly damaged and killed in hunts, the odds of the tribe surviving would be zero.

Today our survival is not as dependent on strong, youth hunting, procreating, and farming to feed the tribe. Not only are women more fertile, but children are not viewed as little laborers. Hunting is more of a sport than a necessity of survival, and women regularly participate in hunting and physical risky activities with little to no controversy about it.

Gender relations place females in a submissive position to males in virtually every species of overtly social great ape we are aware of.

Why on earth would early humans have been any sort of exception to this?

Frankly, women do not possess anything remotely approaching "equality" even in the hunter-gatherer societies to which you refer. Men still do the vast majority of the hunting, and inhabit virtually all major positions of authority.

 

[ChrisL]

Re: Myth of Male Power

The President that golfed while the United States burned, and was only really elected in the first place because of the color of his skin.

Oh yea, he's got tons to be proud of. :roll:

In any case, he had the privilege of being born into a wealthy and unconnected upper class family. Most do not.

That has nothing to do with it. Obviously people who are born not of YOUR ideal conditions don't all end up being losers as you would have us believe. :roll:

 

[sangha]

Re: Myth of Male Power

I agree completely. It doesn't change the reality of my situation, however.

And not getting a decent paying job won't change the reality of your situation either.

No. They have not. Most have not.

Wrong

Most people your age have jobs
A-10. Unemployment rates by age, sex, and marital status, seasonally adjusted

Don't try and blame your generation's crappy planning on me.

Right! It's everyone else's fault that you can't support a family :roll:

 

[ecofarm]

Re: Myth of Male Power

The President... was only really elected in the first place because of the color of his skin.

Because democrats don't actually exist.


:?

 

[Gathomas88]

Re: Myth of Male Power

No, it is expensive just to have ONE child. How are you going to send your children to college? Do you know how much it costs over a lifetime to raise just ONE child in today's economy? You have very unrealistic expectations, I must say.

Just FYI, it is estimated to cost close to a quarter of a million dollars to raise just one child to age 18, and that's if you don't have a cling-on (dorky Star Trek reference :mrgreen.

My parents raised five. :shrug:

They've never been wealthy, exactly, but they made it work.

I'm sorry, but people are simply more important than things.

No, we're way behind that point. Our population is growing, and will continue to grow.

Right up until the point where it doesn't. :roll:

Again, I'm not sure why you're acting like this is so far fetched, when Japan and most of Europe are already there.

Ahh, I see. The problem is that we don't have traditional values so we're threatened by immigrants who do have traditional values :screwy

Threatened? Me? No.

I'm simply pointing out the inescapable fact that our culture is fundamentally broken. We value personal gratification over civic duty or family ties, and this is inevitably going to be our downfall at the hands of those more responsbly minded than ourselves.

If anyone should be "threatened" here, it is you. It is your "non-traditional values" that are going to go the way of the dinosaur here if current trends continue.

 

[ChrisL]

Re: Myth of Male Power

My parents raised five. :shrug:

They've never been wealthy, exactly, but they made it work.

I'm sorry, but people are simply more important than things.

Well then your parents are wealthier than most. Most people could not afford to raise 5 children appropriately without outside help.

 

[sangha]

Re: Myth of Male Power

My parents raised five. :shrug:

They've never been wealthy, exactly, but they made it work.

I'm sorry, but people are simply more important than things.

Time to start making people instead of whining about how everyone else is not reproducing.

Right up until the point where it doesn't. :roll:

Projections show our population will continue to increase.

Again, I'm not sure why you're acting like this is so far fetched, when Japan and most of Europe are already there.

Projections show our population will continue to increase.

Threatened? Me? No.

No, not you. I said "we" as in "the US"

Remember? It was *you* who made the argument that the US economy was doomed, so why pretend that you don't know what we're talking about?

I'm simply pointing out the inescapable fact that our culture is fundamentally broken. We value personal gratification over civic duty or family ties, and this is inevitably going to be our downfall at the hands of those more responsbly minded than ourselves.

It's time for you to do your duty, so why aren't you?

If anyone should be "threatened" here, it is you.

So now it's "me" who is threatened here, and not our economy?

You change your story with every post

 

[ChrisL]

Re: Myth of Male Power

People don't have large families anymore because it's not affordable and not necessary, that just goes along with technology and modernization of our world along with economic factors.

 

[Gathomas88]

Re: Myth of Male Power

Wrong

Most people your age have jobs
A-10. Unemployment rates by age, sex, and marital status, seasonally adjusted

As do I. Two of them, as a matter of fact.

I have two gloriously worthless part time jobs that net me a grand total of roughly fifteen thousand dollars a year (if I'm lucky), and provide no where near enough income to pay off the more than twenty thousand dollars worth of student loan debts that are currently hanging over my head, let alone raise any sort of family.

Amurika! :roll:

Right! It's everyone else's fault that you can't support a family :roll:

The people you voted for ran up our national debt to unsustainable levels. The people you voted for ran our nation's economy into the ground and continue to do so to this very day.

If the shoe fits, buddy.

 

[ChrisL]

Re: Myth of Male Power

A lot of women CHOOSE to not have a lot of children too. I would never argue that it's wrong that WE have a choice in the matter nowadays instead of being used for breeding factories.

 

[sangha]

Re: Myth of Male Power

People don't have large families anymore because it's not affordable and not necessary, that just goes along with technology and modernization of our world along with economic factors.

Yes, it's due to economic factors

Even he admits that. When I challenged him about his failure to reproduce, he cited economic factors. He even claimed that most people in his age group can not afford to raise children. Then he turns around and claims that they aren't having children because they "value personal gratification over civic duty or family ties"

He can't keep his stories straight.

 

[roguenuke]

Re: Myth of Male Power

Well then your parents are wealthier than most. Most people could not afford to raise 5 children appropriately without outside help.

Eh. My parents raised 6 of us, me being the oldest and born in 1980. They never made over $45K a year combined, and even that was at the absolute best time, both parents working. We never really had extra or even a big enough house, but we all survived and have pretty decent personalities. Oh, and we were rarely on assistance. I don't remember us being on foodstamps and only had Medicaid when my mother lost her job due to a stupid reason (refused to get an account at a specific bank).

 

[sangha]

Re: Myth of Male Power

As do I. Two of them, as a matter of fact.

I have two gloriously worthless part time jobs that net me a grand total of roughly fifteen thousand dollars a year (if I'm lucky), and provide no where near enough income to pay off the more than twenty thousand dollars worth of student loan debts that are currently hanging over my head, let alone raise any sort of family.

Amurika! :roll:

So you chose to get into debt in order to learn a skill that no one wants to pay you to perform, and that's America's fault?

The people you voted for ran up our national debt to unsustainable levels. The people you voted for ran our nation's economy into the ground and continue to do so to this very day.

I've never voted republican

 

[the_recruit]

Re: Myth of Male Power

 

[Gathomas88]

Re: Myth of Male Power

Well then your parents are wealthier than most. Most people could not afford to raise 5 children appropriately without outside help.

Nope. They made less than 50k a year for most of their marriage.

We're pretty standard middle class.

People don't have large families anymore because it's not affordable and not necessary, that just goes along with technology and modernization of our world along with economic factors.

I think it's a lot more affordable than you might like to believe.

As far as being "necessary" goes, the sources I have provided already more than speak to that. You can't have a workable society without a younger generation to fill in the gaps that the older one leaves behind.

A lot of women CHOOSE to not have a lot of children too. I would never argue that it's wrong that WE have a choice in the matter nowadays instead of being used for breeding factories.

Too many people are making the wrong choice.

Projections show our population will continue to increase.

Until it doesn't, just as it has in much of the rest of the developed world. :roll:

Projections show our population will continue to increase.

Until it doesn't, just as it has in much of the rest of the developed world. :roll:

No, not you. I said "we" as in "the US"

Remember? It was *you* who made the argument that the US economy was doomed, so why pretend that you don't know what we're talking about?

On a long term basis. I didn't say it was going to necessarily happen tomorrow.

So now it's "me" who is threatened here, and not our economy?

You change your story with every post

Both, as a matter of fact. Immigration is ultimately only a band aid.

If something major doesn't change in the structure of our society, all of the immigrants in the world aren't going to delay the inevitable.

 

[ChrisL]

Re: Myth of Male Power

Eh. My parents raised 6 of us, me being the oldest and born in 1980. They never made over $45K a year combined, and even that was at the absolute best time, both parents working. We never really had extra or even a big enough house, but we all survived and have pretty decent personalities. Oh, and we were rarely on assistance. I don't remember us being on foodstamps and only had Medicaid when my mother lost her job due to a stupid reason (refused to get an account at a specific bank).

Okay but that still doesn't have an effect on my point. Most people choose not to have that many children nowadays because of economic factors.

 

[sangha]

Re: Myth of Male Power

Until it doesn't, just as it has in much of the rest of the developed world. :roll:


Until it doesn't, just as it has in much of the rest of the developed world. :roll:


On a long term basis. I didn't say it was going to necessarily happen tomorrow.

So when is this mythical population decrease going to happen?

Please post credible data to support your claim because so far, you haven't posted any supporting evidence other than "because I say so"

Both, as a matter of fact. Immigration is ultimately only a band aid.

If something major doesn't change in the structure of our society, all of the immigrants in the world aren't going to delay the inevitable.

If nothing major doesn't change, our population is going to continue to increase.

 

[Gathomas88]

Re: Myth of Male Power

Yes, it's due to economic factors

Even he admits that. When I challenged him about his failure to reproduce, he cited economic factors. He even claimed that most people in his age group can not afford to raise children. Then he turns around and claims that they aren't having children because they "value personal gratification over civic duty or family ties"

He can't keep his stories straight.

Young people have an excuse. Everyone else does not.

Again, the poor are having plenty of children. It is the upper and middle classes who are slacking.

I plan on having plenty of children when I am able to do so.

So you chose to get into debt in order to learn a skill that no one wants to pay you to perform, and that's America's fault?

Right, because I'm sure that I'd simply be rolling in money right now if I hadn't gone to college. :roll:

Can I have some of whatever you're smoking over there?

I've never voted republican

That's great, seeing as how the Democrats are the ones currentl running us into the ground at the moment. :lamo

 

[ChrisL]

Re: Myth of Male Power

Nope. They made less than 50k a year for most of their marriage.

We're pretty standard middle class.



I think it's a lot more affordable than you might like to believe.

Look, I have raised a child. :lol: Who do you think you're talking to?

As far as being "necessary" goes, the sources I have provided already more than speak to that. You can't have a workable society without a younger generation to fill in the gaps that the older one leaves behind.

And you seem to be not taking into account the baby boom. Why would you ignore such an important factor in the gap at this point? By people NOT having a lot of children now only saves us in the future as the baby boom kind of has proven.

Too many people are making the wrong choice.

Just unbelievable that you would say that. Do you know what a "choice" is? Good Lord dude, that was pathetic.

 

[roguenuke]

Re: Myth of Male Power

Okay but that still doesn't have an effect on my point. Most people choose not to have that many children nowadays because of economic factors.

Oh, I agree. But there are still many people who just simply want only a few children, many feeling that it is hard, and it is. I have two children now. My husband doesn't really want anymore, and I'm not sure I want another either. I wouldn't mind adopting a daughter though. But I simply don't think that it is that important that we maintain a growth in our birth rate. I think some people have convinced themselves and others that having more children is the only way to ensure a good economy, but I don't think this is true at all. Nature doesn't work this way so I don't see how it is healthy for us to function that way either.

 

[sangha]

Re: Myth of Male Power

Young people have an excuse. Everyone else does not.

Again, the poor are having plenty of children. It is the upper and middle classes who are slacking.

I plan on having plenty of children when I am able to do so.

Ahh, I see. Young people aren't putting personal gratification first. They will have plenty of children once they can afford it

And that means that the population is going to decrease! :roll:

Right, because I'm sure that I'd simply be rolling in money right now if I hadn't gone to college. :roll:

Can I have some of whatever you're smoking over there?

Ever hear the words "marketable skills"?

That's great, seeing as how the Democrats are the ones currentl running us into the ground at the moment. :lamo

Yes, it's awful the way the economy is growing after the republicans did such a commendable job of creating the largest economic crisis since the Great Depression!

 

[Gathomas88]

Re: Myth of Male Power

So when is this mythical population decrease going to happen?

Please post credible data to support your claim because so far, you haven't posted any supporting evidence other than "because I say so"

Do the math, genius.

No children, plus loads and loads of old people, plus a stillborn economy that is showing no signs of meaningful recovery any time in the near future, equals "success?"

I've posted dozens of sources telling you exactly why declining fertility rates are going to be problematic on a long term basis. If anything, you need to provide evidence showing why the United States would turn out any differently than the rest of the developed world in this regard.

I'm waiting. :roll:

If nothing major doesn't change, our population is going to continue to increase.

Says Sangha, and no one else of consequence.

 

[ChrisL]

Re: Myth of Male Power

Off topic, but pages are loading really slow for me. Hopefully the site isn't going to crash again.

 

[sangha]

Re: Myth of Male Power

Do the math, genius.

The math has been done. It shows population growth.

No children, plus loads and loads of old people, plus a stillborn economy that is showing no signs of meaningful recovery any time in the near future, equals "success?"

But, but, but you just said that you kids are going to have plenty of children!!

Can't you keep your stories straight?

I've posted dozens of sources telling you exactly why declining fertility rates are going to be problematic on a long term basis. If anything, you need to provide evidence showing why the United States would turn out any differently than the rest of the developed world in this regard.

I see you continue to confuse fertility rates with population growth rates.

No wonder you can't get the math right

I'm waiting. :roll:



Says Sangha, and no one else of consequence.

And the CIA, and UN, Census, etc

Meanwhile, you haven't posted a link that shows that anyone but you believes that the US will see a population decline

 

[Gathomas88]

Re: Myth of Male Power

Look, I have raised a child. :lol: Who do you think you're talking to?

Again, I'm just telling you that it isn't as impossible as you're claiming.

And you seem to be not taking into account the baby boom. Why would you ignore such an important factor in the gap at this point? By people NOT having a lot of children now only saves us in the future as the baby boom kind of has proven.

The baby boom, and the economic growth it resulted in, helped to turn the United States into a global super power.

I'm sorry, but growth is good. Decline is bad.

That's really all there is to it.

Just unbelievable that you would say that. Do you know what a "choice" is? Good Lord dude, that was pathetic.

Yes, and there are consequences for bad choices.

Ahh, I see. Young people aren't putting personal gratification first. They will have plenty of children once they can afford it

And that means that the population is going to decrease! :roll:

Not what I said, liar. I said that I plan on having children.

I can't speak for anyone else. Most people I know want very few children, or none at all.

Ever hear the words "marketable skills"?

Which is why you go to college and wrack up insane amounts of student debt, because you want to gain "marketable skills." :roll:

Again, that supposed "deal" between young people and employers was proven to be effectively bunk ages ago. They don't give a **** what "skills" you might happen to have. They want experience.

I could work any job out there. I simply haven't been given the time of day so far.

Yes, it's awful the way the economy is growing after the republicans did such a commendable job of creating the largest economic crisis since the Great Depression!

Only in your mind Sangha, only in your mind...

Does the phrase, "jobless recovery" mean anything to you?