my cat!

[CRUE CAB]

HE said he may get angry enough to return her to the animal shelter, which means he got the can from the animal shelter. Animal shelters in general will spay or neuter animals they get.

Down her the adopting persons must do it.
Thats why I asked.

 

[specklebang]

Sounds to me like you're talking to an old guard vet.

If you've had her three months, she is not too young. You could spay her right now and it would be perfectly fine.

She may be going into puberty, and that could be causing this issue. Some cats have their first heat as early as 5 or 6 months old.

Some out of date vets believe spaying young stunts the cat, but this had been disproved.

Assuming the kitten is healthy, it is safe to spay as early as 8 weeks. Get a second opinion while you're checking for a UTI.

My local slaughterhouse, opps, sorry, I meant pound, will not release an unfixed cat so the surgery can be done as young as 8 weeks. Not that I suggest that, spaying (females) is a fair size surgery and waiting until 6 months is better but indeed, that could be the problem.

I've already discussed the topic of litter but I see there are special litters for kittens Amazon.com: Precious Cat Kitten Attract Kitten Training Litter: Pet Supplies and that might be worth a try. I'm pretty sure that a solution can be found.

Now, some cats are terribly dependent on humans (and some could care less). One of my cats requires constant attention and gets depressed if I am away and someone else comes to check on him. Boy, do I love that cat! But the reason I have him is that his previous servant, The Cat Ladies, could not give him enough attention (they have 25 cats) so I took him since I'm home most of the time. So your kitten might not be a good match for someone who is away a lot. But getting a super-friendly cat is a treasure so lets try all these other alternatives first.

 

[CRUE CAB]

Sounds to me like you're talking to an old guard vet.

If you've had her three months, she is not too young. You could spay her right now and it would be perfectly fine.

She may be going into puberty, and that could be causing this issue. Some cats have their first heat as early as 5 or 6 months old.

Some out of date vets believe spaying young stunts the cat, but this had been disproved.

Assuming the kitten is healthy, it is safe to spay as early as 8 weeks. Get a second opinion while you're checking for a UTI.

I have three cats, 2 were spayed at about 5 months and that is the earliest either vet would do it.
The other is only about 6 weeks at most, so she has a while to go.
Old guard or not, I will take my vets advice long before someones online about it.
And my vet is only in her 30s, so I dont know if old guard is correct.

 

[Henrin]

Some out of date vets believe spaying young stunts the cat, but this had been disproved.

Umm.. an unfixed male cat is bigger and stronger than a fixed male cat. Are we really pretending that puberty in cats does not cause body changes? That seems kind of strange.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

Umm.. an unfixed male cat is bigger and stronger than a fixed male cat. Are we really pretending that puberty in cats does not cause body changes? That seems kind of strange.

Not necessarily bigger. Stronger, yes. More testosterone. But if you fixed a post puberty male cat, they'd still lose that extra muscle. Makes no difference.

There are differences in how fixed kittens mature, but it evens out in the long run and doesn't harm the cat.

 

[Henrin]

Not necessarily bigger. Stronger, yes. More testosterone. But if you fixed a post puberty male cat, they'd still lose that extra muscle. Makes no difference.

There are differences in how fixed kittens mature, but it evens out in the long run and doesn't harm the cat.

Not necessarily, but then adult human males aren't necessarily bigger either, but most of the time they are. We don't judge things by the exception to the rule, but by the rule, and the rule is that they are bigger.

As for post removal, again, the same is true for adult human males. Doesn't really mean anything. It clearly shows that the hormones have an effect and play a part in the cats development and body management just like in humans.

Fixing a cat in such a fashion has never been a solution that actually has any merit.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

Not necessarily, but then adult human males aren't necessarily bigger either, but most of the time they are. We don't judge things by the exception to the rule, but by the rule, and the rule is that they are bigger.

As for post removal, again, the same is true for adult human males. Doesn't really mean anything. It clearly shows that the hormones have an effect and play a part in the cats development and body management just like in humans.

Fixing a cat in such a fashion has never been a solution that actually has any merit.

I never said otherwise. What I said is that it doesn't harm the cat.

 

[Henrin]

I never said otherwise. What I said is that it doesn't harm the cat.

Stopping natural body development and body management is a harm. I'm not sure how you can claim it's not.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

Stopping natural body development and body management is a harm. I'm not sure how you can claim it's not.

Because there is strong evidence to the contrary, in the case of cats kept inside.

You know what the biggest benefit of neutering is? It has nothing to do with the convenience of the human.

The biggest benefit is that it stops reproductive and mammary cancer. Intact cats suffer from it at extremely high rates in middle age. Even if they just have one or two cycles before they're fixed, the odds are very high.

Also, studies on the issue conclude that while neutering young does delay development somewhat, it does complete fairly normally and this doesn't seem to have much impact on the cat over their life span.

There are slight differences in certain disease risks, but because reproductive cancer is so extremely common, these risks are tiny in comparison. And well worth it.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

I have three cats, 2 were spayed at about 5 months and that is the earliest either vet would do it.
The other is only about 6 weeks at most, so she has a while to go.
Old guard or not, I will take my vets advice long before someones online about it.
And my vet is only in her 30s, so I dont know if old guard is correct.

I would always suggest people look things up themselves, of course.

I don't know if I would neuter a kitten right at 8 weeks, but I'd say over 3 months in be perfectly comfortable with based on what I know.

Old guard doesn't always mean old people.

 

[Henrin]

Because there is strong evidence to the contrary, in the case of cats kept inside.

You know what the biggest benefit of neutering is? It has nothing to do with the convenience of the human.

The biggest benefit is that it stops reproductive and mammary cancer. Intact cats suffer from it at extremely high rates in middle age. Even if they just have one or two cycles before they're fixed, the odds are very high.

I could of course say the same thing for human beings. If I fix all little girls and boys cancer risks are lowered and others are most likely very close to eliminated.

Also, studies on the issue conclude that while neutering young does delay development somewhat, it does complete fairly normally and this doesn't seem to have much impact on the cat over their life span.

Come on now, the changes caused by the hormones are pretty much nullified in male cats. Those hormones do cause changes that are not going to happen without them. It's like saying you could cut off the balls of a male human being and nothing will be different about him. It's a trash argument.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

I could of course say the same thing for human beings. If I fix all little girls and boys cancer risks are lowered and others are most likely very close to eliminated.

Come on now, the changes caused by the hormones are pretty much nullified in male cats. Those hormones do cause changes that are not going to happen without them. It's like saying you could cut off the balls of a male human being and nothing will be different about him. It's a trash argument.

Not true. Human cancer risks actually go up.

Cats have very different reproductive systems. Their cycles are fast, and in nature they would never live to 15. If they are intact and kept from breeding, this leads to cancer.

You can believe whatever fact free crap you want, but this is what the evidence says.

 

[Henrin]

Not true. Human cancer risks actually go up.

Cats have very different reproductive systems. Their cycles are fast, and in nature they would never live to 15. If they are intact and kept from breeding, this leads to cancer.

You can believe whatever fact free crap you want, but this is what the evidence says.

So if I stop a girls breasts from developing her risk of breast cancer is not lowered? Sorry, but it is.

Btw, regular ejaculation lowers prostate cancer risk. I imagine restraining could very well raise it.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

So if I stop a girls breasts from developing her risk of breast cancer is not lowered? Sorry, but it is.

Btw, regular ejaculation lowers prostate cancer risk. I imagine restraining could very well raise it.

Actually, the kinds of problems humans have when their gonads are removed are often other parts of the body -- heart, bones, etc. We don't see much of that in cats.

Like I said, we have totally different reproductive systems. Your don't sound like you know enough about this topic to have anything to say.

 

[Henrin]

Actually, the kinds of problems humans have when their gonads are removed are often other parts of the body -- heart, bones, etc. We don't see much of that in cats.

Like I said, we have totally different reproductive systems. Your don't sound like you know enough about this topic to have anything to say.

Removing the natural development of the human body and a cats body raises some cancer risks and lowers others just like not removing them can mean certain risks are higher and others are lower. It's not exactly hard to follow, Smoke. As I said though, some of those risks do involve reproductive systems in humans.

You're right there is differences, but the differences don't really warrant your argument as I could easily use similar arguments for human beings. Hell, the one is basically the same.

 

[MaggieD]

Removing the natural development of the human body and a cats body raises some cancer risks and lowers others just like not removing them can mean certain risks are higher and others are lower. It's not exactly hard to follow, Smoke. As I said though, some of those risks do involve reproductive systems in humans.

You're right there is differences, but the differences don't really warrant your argument as I could easily use similar arguments for human beings. Hell, the one is basically the same.

I haven't read yours and Smoke's totality here -- but there is absolutely NO DOUBT that neutering cats one doesn't intend to breed is the humane and socially responsible thing to do.

I'll take the ASPCA's counsel in this matter - which, I think, agrees with Smoke.

What Are the Health Benefits of Spaying and Neutering?

Spayed cats are less likely to develop breast cancer and will not be at risk for ovarian or uterine cancer, while neutered males will not get testicular cancer. By neutering male cats, you also reduce the risk of injury and transmission of disease, since intact males have a natural instinct to roam and get into fights with other cats, who may have contagious diseases or parasites.

Why Should I Spay or Neuter My Cat?

In addition to the many health benefits, spaying or neutering your cat ensures that he or she won’t contribute to the feline overpopulation problem. Even a cat who lives indoors may escape and produce kittens if not sterilized. Each year, millions of homeless cats are euthanized or end up in shelters due to a lack of good homes.

What Are Some Behavioral Issues Associated with Cats Who Aren’t Spayed or Neutered?

Although any cat can spray urine to mark territory, intact males are those who most often engage in this behavior. Both intact male and female cats may try to escape their homes to roam outside. When female cats are in estrus (heat), they yowl and attract male cats.

When Is the Best Time To Spay or Neuter My Cat?

It is generally considered safe for kittens as young as eight weeks old to be spayed or neutered. In animal shelters, surgery is often performed at this time so that kittens can be sterilized prior to adoption. In an effort to avoid the start of urine spraying and eliminate the chance for pregnancy, it’s advisable to schedule the surgery before your own cat reaches six months of age. It’s possible to spay a female cat while she’s in heat, but not always recommended since she’s susceptible to increased blood loss. Although older cats can be good candidates, your vet can best determine if the procedure can be safely performed.

 

[Henrin]

I haven't read yours and Smoke's totality here -- but there is absolutely NO DOUBT that neutering cats one doesn't intend to breed is the humane and socially responsible thing to do.

I'll take the ASPCA's counsel in this matter - which, I think, agrees with Smoke.

I can deal with their argument just fine.

Spayed cats are less likely to develop breast cancer and will not be at risk for ovarian or uterine cancer, while neutered males will not get testicular cancer. By neutering male cats, you also reduce the risk of injury and transmission of disease, since intact males have a natural instinct to roam and get into fights with other cats, who may have contagious diseases or parasites.

Exactly. Removing the ovaries and uterus obviously remove all risk of cancers in those organs and stopping further development will decrease breast cancer. All of which are true in human females if you were to do the same thing to them. On the other hand, removing the testes will obviously lead to removing all risk of cancers in those organs and once again that is true for human males. Of course, male humans are naturally more aggressive when not castrated as well. That should all be common knowledge I would think.

In addition to the many health benefits, spaying or neutering your cat ensures that he or she won’t contribute to the feline overpopulation problem. Even a cat who lives indoors may escape and produce kittens if not sterilized. Each year, millions of homeless cats are euthanized or end up in shelters due to a lack of good homes.

If you do the same to humans populations would be controlled to. :shrug: I'm not saying we shouldn't fix cats in a certain fashion, but cutting off their gonads is going overboard.

Although any cat can spray urine to mark territory, intact males are those who most often engage in this behavior. Both intact male and female cats may try to escape their homes to roam outside. When female cats are in estrus (heat), they yowl and attract male cats.

..and it's annoying. Really, the yowling is really annoying. It's got to be the most annoying sound that comes out of a cat.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

Removing the natural development of the human body and a cats body raises some cancer risks and lowers others just like not removing them can mean certain risks are higher and others are lower. It's not exactly hard to follow, Smoke. As I said though, some of those risks do involve reproductive systems in humans.

You're right there is differences, but the differences don't really warrant your argument as I could easily use similar arguments for human beings. Hell, the one is basically the same.

Again, you don't understand how cats' systems work, and you obviously have done exactly zero research on the issue.

Your argument for humans didn't work because humans have completely different cycles and reactions.

All of the research on this field proves you wrong.

 

[Henrin]

Again, you don't understand how cats' systems work, and you obviously have done exactly zero research on the issue.

Your argument for humans didn't work because humans have completely different cycles and reactions.

All of the research on this field proves you wrong.

Whatever you say Smoke. See you around on the forum.

 

[Slartibartfast]

well the keep away spray didn't work, she didn't hesitate for a second. calling the vet tomorrow to see if I can move up the spay and get a health check

gotta figure something out though, the kids are quite attached to her.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

My local slaughterhouse, opps, sorry, I meant pound, will not release an unfixed cat so the surgery can be done as young as 8 weeks. Not that I suggest that, spaying (females) is a fair size surgery and waiting until 6 months is better but indeed, that could be the problem.

Certainly, I think knowing the lower limit of safety is something that's really only useful to shelters. It's good to know that they don't have to weigh the cost/benefit of adopting them out young when their "baby animal" charm is at its max, versus having to wonder whether the adopters will bother to neuter them.

I probably wouldn't neuter a cat of my own under 3 months, simply because there's absolutely no need to do so. They won't go through heat at 3 months, or even 4. Why not let them put on some more weight?

But particularly with some of the stockier breeds, they can go through puberty very, very young. And that would concern me about cutting it so close to the line. I want to keep their risks as low as I can. Especially with females who stay high-risk for mammary cancer if they had heats before being spayed.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

well the keep away spray didn't work, she didn't hesitate for a second. calling the vet tomorrow to see if I can move up the spay and get a health check

gotta figure something out though, the kids are quite attached to her.

There's always an answer! It's just hard when they don't speak English sometimes.

Let us know how it goes.

 

[Buck Ewer]

Good job at thread drift.

Yes. You are the best at that.

 

[CRUE CAB]

Yes. You are the best at that.

Iam not the one that tried to correct someones use of a word in the middle of a thread about cats for god sakes.
Cure, fix,solve, remedy all mean the same things.

 

[Buck Ewer]

Iam not the one that tried to correct someones use of a word in the middle of a thread about cats for god sakes.
Cure, fix,solve, remedy all mean the same things.

I am not the one who initially corrected you ... Henrin was. I simply backed him up explaining that your error changed the meaning of what you attempting to say.
Your use of the word "cure" indicated that you were implying the behavior of the cat was disease related when the sentence just before counter indicated that was your meaning. Confusing at best.


Cure, fix, solve, remedy all have entirely different, though related, definitions ...that is why they are different words.
When you were correctly corrected, rather than being forthright in accepting that correction and moving on with the thread, you insisted on drifting the thrust of the thread to attempt to exonerate yourself from what was obvious to all, your erroneous and confusing word usage. Your error was indeed semantic in nature, but an error that confused your meaning never the less. Blurting out the word "semantics" did nothing to reduce the error, but instead only served to amplify it.
For many under-educated, self centered people who lack self-confidence, admitting that they are wrong, or that they don't know something, it seems, is one of the hardest things for them to do. You meet at least some of the criteria to be counted as being one of those people.

I would suggest investing in a decent dictionary, or learn how to use one of the many on-line dictionaries, especially if you intend to attempt to express yourself with the written word in a public forum. The smartest people I have known are quick to recognize when they are in error, and that trait is a demonstration of what it is that makes them smart in the first place.
Jus'sayin'