Mueller's team seized 'voluminous and complex' evidence from Roger Stone

[haymarket]

However, one has to establish that "little fish" caught are in fact "little fish" to a "big fish" somewhere. Mueller isn't doing that. Not only is he not establishing that guys like PapaD or Stone are the little guys, his narratives as shown in their indictments, seem to show that the "big fish" have no interest or knowledge in what the 'little fish' claimed they have.
And we are running out of "little fish."

Thank you very very much for providing a perfect illustration of just what I talked about.

 

[haymarket]

yeah. i post on multiple political boards and the Trump voters are all doing the same thing no matter where i go.

but, think about it. what are their options? Trump is corrupt and a scumbag. so their choices on how to defend him are very limited.

They only have two options: the first is constant denial of reality and the second is to created an alternate reality outside of the rational world and opt to dwell there.

 

[haymarket]

I've known some Trump supporters for decades. With few exceptions, they are intelligent, thoughtful people who were reasonable before the age of Trump. However they decided to become truth denying, lie repeating anti-intellectuals is beyond my comprehension and will be studied by historians, sociologists, and political scientists for a very long time. They have opted to mimic the irrational and dishonest habits of Trump (hence the cult), which doesn't make any sense to me when I consider the previously good cores of these people. I have lost a lot of respect for a lot of people, but I am fully aware that the feeling is mutual in some cases.

I thought I would never live long enough to see the bad old days of the late Sixties and early Seventies come back to plague the nation but this era of Trump is much much worse than the division from Watergate and Viet Nam. It is a new low for our nation - at least in my lifetime and I was born in 49.

The Republican Party is the closest thing to an outright irrational cult that we have ever seen in American politics. This is a very dangerous time for our nation and it is only good fortune that has spared us from some terrible international crisis while Trump is in charge. One shudders to think what would happen if he had to face a Cuban Missle Crisis - let along something akin to the Axis Powers. That could well be the end of all things with Trump at the helm. He could go down in history as the captain of the modern Titanic.

 

[upsideguy]

With the exception of Manafort and a couple of convictions against Flynn, all of the crimes Mueller discovered, were crimes occurred during the investigation.
Why does it matter? Because he wasn't asked to run a sting operation. He was tasked with investigating collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia. That he has not indicted anyone for this, increasingly tells us there was no collusion.

No, the convictions are plea bargains. In general, many of these people copped a plea to with crimes that had arisen during the investigation. They copped a plea because they were facing greater crimes.

https://www.npr.org/2018/12/09/6434...rge-so-far-from-robert-muellers-investigation

Remember, Capone was convicted of income tax evasion; but the real crimes behind that conviction was his mob activity.

Meanwhile, there are currently 17 separate investigations where Trump is either a subject or target. Do you believe he is going to be exonerated on all of them?

https://www.wired.com/story/mueller-investigation-trump-russia-complete-guide/

 

[uptower]

How many agents were needed to arrest Bernie Madoff? Ken Lay? Jeff Skilling? Martha Stewart? Osama Bin Laden?

Osama bin Laden? Really? What did it take to get him?

A ten year manhunt, an invasion and occupation that continues to this day, missile strikes, drone strikes; kidnappings, black sites and indefinite detentions, court cases and convictions; torture, assassinations, midnight raids and finally an assault team, a helicopter crash and a dangerous extraction - not to mention several dozen paperbacks of fair-to-middling quality and at least one half-decent movie. Sh!t he even got his name in an Eminem song, which may or may not have contributed to his capture.

The hunt for bin Laden quite possibly cost tens of thousands of lives and we're going to compare that to an itty-bitty raid on a two-bit crook who was a potential flight risk? They needed the cars and agents to shock and awe, stop him running out the back door or destroying evidence.

 

[MateoMtnClimber]

He's a piece of **** and pieces of **** like to screw people around for the sake of screwing people around.

It's a theory, but I'm not sure I buy it. I guess we'll know when we find out what is on the hard drives.

 

[MateoMtnClimber]

Do you think Hillary's team wasn't interested in knowing in advance what Wiki leaks was going to release? I was in the hospital recovering from heart surgery and I want to know. :lol: Everyone wanted to know which shoe was going to drop next. I bet Assange's phone was ringing off the hook. The very fact that they were scrambling to find out what WikiLeaks had points to the fact they didn't know what WikiLeaks had. And for the record neither did I. :lol:

Your claim is that it made sense for both campaigns to try to communicate with WikiLeaks? So it would have been ok for both campaigns to do so?

 

[SLC]

Your claim is that it made sense for both campaigns to try to communicate with WikiLeaks? So it would have been ok for both campaigns to do so?

After WikiLeaks began to release emails it would not have been illegal. And the fact that they [the trump campaign] didn't know what WikiLeaks was going to release shows no prior knowledge. I'd be surprised if there weren't email of the Hillary campaign wondering what WikiLeaks had. I don't know what the Hillary campaign did because no one is investigating even though they should. I doubt the evidence still exists . :lol:

 

[SLC]

Manafort ran the Trump campaign for a time. He is up to his eyeballs in Pro Russian Ukrainian money. Of course look into that guys finances. It would be stupid not to.

As for Flynn... the guy was secretly working for a foreign government while serving as the National Security Advisor. There was a time in this country where we would consider that to be a bad thing. I seriously think that by the time that this is all over... it look like Flynn got off light.

Mueller has also handed off plenty of material to the SDNY. That is where Cohen is getting his prison time from.

Mueller clearly has the authority, he is handing off ancillary areas off to the SDNY and he is successfully indicting people who committed crime.... So... what's the complaint again?

Do you have a link for that because I'm reasonably sure he worked for a foreign country well before becoming National Security Advisor but not during the time he was a National Security Advisor.

 

[SLC]

Osama bin Laden? Really? What did it take to get him?

A ten year manhunt, an invasion and occupation that continues to this day, missile strikes, drone strikes; kidnappings, black sites and indefinite detentions, court cases and convictions; torture, assassinations, midnight raids and finally an assault team, a helicopter crash and a dangerous extraction - not to mention several dozen paperbacks of fair-to-middling quality and at least one half-decent movie. Sh!t he even got his name in an Eminem song, which may or may not have contributed to his capture.

The hunt for bin Laden quite possibly cost tens of thousands of lives and we're going to compare that to an itty-bitty raid on a two-bit crook who was a potential flight risk? They needed the cars and agents to shock and awe, stop him running out the back door or destroying evidence.

Yeah because he was at least as dangerous as Bin Laden. :lol: A couple of agents at the front and back door was all that was needed. The rest was a huge waste of money. We know he wasn't a flight risk because the judge let him off with a 250K surety bond , read that as no money out of his pocket and the prosecution did not contest it. The whole he was a "flight risk" thing is laughable. And Stone has known for months that he was about to be arrested and Mueller already had his text messages and emails. The notion that there is any new useable evidence in his home is hysterical. We know why Mueller did the raid and it wasn't that he was dangerous or had evidence he would destroy are that he was a flight risk. The whole mess is a huge black eye on our country and how we are supposed to treat people. It is like a Banana Republic would behave. I don't know if Stone is guilty or not but 29 heavily armed agents 2 amphibious vehicle and 15 other vehicles including assault vehicles. Is pathetic no matter how you try to spin it.

 

[uptower]

Yeah because he was at least as dangerous as Bin Laden. :lol: A couple of agents at the front and back door was all that was needed. The rest was a huge waste of money. We know he wasn't a flight risk because the judge let him off with a 250K surety bond , read that as no money out of his pocket and the prosecution did not contest it. The whole he was a "flight risk" thing is laughable. And Stone has known for months that he was about to be arrested and Mueller already had his text messages and emails. The notion that there is any new useable evidence in his home is hysterical. We know why Mueller did the raid and it wasn't that he was dangerous or had evidence he would destroy are that he was a flight risk. The whole mess is a huge black eye on our country and how we are supposed to treat people. It is like a Banana Republic would behave. I don't know if Stone is guilty or not but 29 heavily armed agents 2 amphibious vehicle and 15 other vehicles including assault vehicles. Is pathetic no matter how you try to spin it.

Yo, the dude asked what about bin Laden? Well stone had it a million times easier - end of story. I suppose Hillary Clinton personally chose the ROE on this one. Some buck private loading C130s in Djibouti told me right? So how many people died in the Stone raid? How many helicopters crashed? How many suspects shot?

Oh poor pwivileged white man got himself awwested. Maybe hold a charity concert? I'm sure Ted Nugent will be up for it.

 

[Jezcoe]

Do you have a link for that because I'm reasonably sure he worked for a foreign country well before becoming National Security Advisor but not during the time he was a National Security Advisor.

The dude retroactively registered as a foreign agent after he was fired.

He hid work that he was doing for Turkey just a few months before he assumed his position in the administration.

I doubt that he just forgot that he secretly worked for Turkey right before Trump won and then all of a sudden remembered his oversight... so the question then becomes... why was he hiding it?

When all of this is over, my bet is that Flynn will look like he is getting off light.

 

[Athanasius68]

No, the convictions are plea bargains. In general, many of these people copped a plea to with crimes that had arisen during the investigation. They copped a plea because they were facing greater crimes.

https://www.npr.org/2018/12/09/6434...rge-so-far-from-robert-muellers-investigation

Remember, Capone was convicted of income tax evasion; but the real crimes behind that conviction was his mob activity.

Meanwhile, there are currently 17 separate investigations where Trump is either a subject or target. Do you believe he is going to be exonerated on all of them?

https://www.wired.com/story/mueller-investigation-trump-russia-complete-guide/

Oh, I'm sure tax irregularities will be found.

 

[CaughtInThe]

Mueller's investigation Trump for murder?

Swoosshh....

 

[CaughtInThe]

They only have two options: the first is constant denial of reality and the second is to created an alternate reality outside of the rational world and opt to dwell there.

Yep.

It's actually funny.

 

[ludin]

Meanwhile, the government is borrowing money from China to pay for the dumbest tax cut in a generation; and the debt and the deficit are higher than they have ever been. GDP growth is high while the government slowly bankrupts the entire country.

wow you continue your posts of misinformation and down right lies.
no the deficit isn't higher than they have ever been. while they are high 985b.
that is not higher than obama's 1.3 trillion dollar deficits.

as for the debt as always we have a spending problem not a revenue issue.
the government fiscal year ended with individual tax receipts up 6%.
that is 14b more than 2017.

so it isn't that the government isn't flush with cash it is that they can't spend less
than they collect. our government is in violation of their fiscal duty and all spending
belongs to congress not the president.

 

[marke]

They only have two options: the first is constant denial of reality and the second is to created an alternate reality outside of the rational world and opt to dwell there.

The reality is that millions of Trump-hating leftists are hanging all their hopes on Herr Muller to finally provide facts which prove Trump colluded with the Russians and not Hillary. The probably should not be holding their breath.

 

[haymarket]

The reality is that millions of Trump-hating leftists are hanging all their hopes on Herr Muller to finally provide facts which prove Trump colluded with the Russians and not Hillary. The probably should not be holding their breath.

Faith will be rewarded.

 

[j-mac]

I think that's going to be the rallying cry from Trump supporters if Mueller finds that Trump killed somebody. No collusion baby!!!!

Wow, you're really invested in wild hyperbole aren't you?

 

[CaughtInThe]

Wow, you're really invested in wild hyperbole aren't you?

Let's see, Trump has alienated our allies (no lost support), cheated on his wife while pregnant (no lost support), lied daily (no lost support), hired people now arrested/indicted (no lost support), is lazy (no lost support), lied about releasing his tax returns (no lost support), on camera discussing grabbing women (no lost support), lied about Trumpcare (no lost support), lied about reducing our debt (no lost support), trashes our intelligence/military leaders (no lost support), tweets like a teen (no lost support), bullies American businesses (no lost support).

Where is your line?

 

[GDViking]

All of the burglars in Watergate were exposed, tried and sent to prison early on in the investigation. If there are underlings that facilitated and participated in some sort of conspiracy, there is no reason that they would not have been charged by now. Lets say that Muellers theory is that Manafort, Bannon, Papa and Page conspired with Trump to coordinate with Russia to steal the election. Fine. He needs to charge one of them, win the case in court and work his way up to Trump. Before I buy into any conspiracy theory, I need to see a domino fall. So far that hasnt happened.

The dominoes are in the box and being set up one by one.

It will be a busy day when the first one is tipped...

 

[GDViking]

Yeah because he was at least as dangerous as Bin Laden. :lol: A couple of agents at the front and back door was all that was needed. The rest was a huge waste of money. We know he wasn't a flight risk because the judge let him off with a 250K surety bond , read that as no money out of his pocket and the prosecution did not contest it. The whole he was a "flight risk" thing is laughable. And Stone has known for months that he was about to be arrested and Mueller already had his text messages and emails. The notion that there is any new useable evidence in his home is hysterical. We know why Mueller did the raid and it wasn't that he was dangerous or had evidence he would destroy are that he was a flight risk. The whole mess is a huge black eye on our country and how we are supposed to treat people. It is like a Banana Republic would behave. I don't know if Stone is guilty or not but 29 heavily armed agents 2 amphibious vehicle and 15 other vehicles including assault vehicles. Is pathetic no matter how you try to spin it.

Who gives a flying **** how the bust went down, it is irrelevant to the fact another traitor was arrested, and our country has one less person working against our countries interests.

All this fake outrage is just to distract from the fact that Mueller is working his way up the chain of command of the trump criminal cartel...

 

[SLC]

Who gives a flying **** how the bust went down, it is irrelevant to the fact another traitor was arrested, and our country has one less person working against our countries interests.

All this fake outrage is just to distract from the fact that Mueller is working his way up the chain of command of the trump criminal cartel...

People who a rightly concerned about the FBI being used for political purposes.

You apparently aren't concerned about it.

I don't care about what happens to Stone I care that Stone is treated like every other suspect with similar types of crime. I care that he not be singled out for "Special" treatment because of his political persuasion. The FBI should not be use as a political arm of the Democrat or of the Republican party.

 

[j-mac]

Let's see, Trump has alienated our allies (no lost support), cheated on his wife while pregnant (no lost support), lied daily (no lost support), hired people now arrested/indicted (no lost support), is lazy (no lost support), lied about releasing his tax returns (no lost support), on camera discussing grabbing women (no lost support), lied about Trumpcare (no lost support), lied about reducing our debt (no lost support), trashes our intelligence/military leaders (no lost support), tweets like a teen (no lost support), bullies American businesses (no lost support).

Where is your line?

So, I have to accept your characterizations? LOL...Nah...I get the impression you don't like the man.....lol

 

[SLC]

Yo, the dude asked what about bin Laden? Well stone had it a million times easier - end of story. I suppose Hillary Clinton personally chose the ROE on this one. Some buck private loading C130s in Djibouti told me right? So how many people died in the Stone raid? How many helicopters crashed? How many suspects shot?

Oh poor pwivileged white man got himself awwested. Maybe hold a charity concert? I'm sure Ted Nugent will be up for it.

You just made my point that Stone wasn't dangerous. There was no need to do this HUGE raid. The judge released him just a few hours after the raid on his signature and nothing more. :roll: Stone probably made it home before the agents did. The FBI was being used for a political reason and not a legal reason. And THAT is the problem. Only stupid people think it OK to use the FBI for political reasons. Or would you have preferred that they shot Stone dead on sight like they did Bin Laden since Stone was so "dangerous"?